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stlcarlos989
SVER True Blood Public Disorder.
764
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Posted - 2013.12.30 20:38:00 -
[1] - Quote
Complex shield extenders Give 72 HP and require 54 CPU and 11 PG, while basic armor plates offer 86.7 - 93.5 HP and only 2% movement penalty for 10 CPU and 1 PG. Complex plates offer 148.5 HP at 30 CPU and 12 PG and only a 5% movement penalty. That is ridiculous getting double the HP for almost half the CPU and essentially the same PG and getting to use damage mods in the highs.
Suggestions for balance only one of these is need for balance Damage mods become a low slot and armor repairers become a high slot Reinstate the old movement penalties for armor Increase armor CPU cost Decrease Shield extender CPU/PG cost
CCP you went from Shields>Armor to Armor>>Shields you just need to do one change to get balance I believe damages to lows would be the best since it would match up with EVE and would mean shield tanked suits have less HP but more damage and armor tanked suits would have much higher HP and they would get their armor repairs for the highs.
... balance
STB Director, #1 in Warpoints E3 Closed Beta Build
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Smooth Assassin
Stardust incorporation
617
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Posted - 2013.12.30 20:41:00 -
[2] - Quote
Hmm... this might actually help scouts.... but.... its gonna be harder to take down "Prototypes"
Assassination is my thing.
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stlcarlos989
SVER True Blood Public Disorder.
764
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Posted - 2013.12.30 20:44:00 -
[3] - Quote
Smooth Assassin wrote:Hmm... this might actually help scouts.... but.... its gonna be harder to take down "Prototypes" No it will be about the same, it will just create balance between shield tanking and armor tanking.
STB Director, #1 in Warpoints E3 Closed Beta Build
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Syeven Reed
RETR0 PR0 GAMERS INTERGALACTIC WARPIGS
232
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Posted - 2013.12.30 20:46:00 -
[4] - Quote
Shields need more love, minmatar assault feels like paper... doesn't even a very fast regen..
EDIT: i take it back, i have more clip for a sidearm
Gÿé Syeven 514
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NextDark Knight
Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy
117
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Posted - 2013.12.30 20:47:00 -
[5] - Quote
Some buddy with CCP's ear doesn't like shield tanking.
Forge Changes needed Officer Splash 3.0, Proto 2.7 Advanced 2.5 Standard 2.1.
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Sgt Kirk
Namtar Elite Gallente Federation
3881
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Posted - 2013.12.30 20:47:00 -
[6] - Quote
Damage mods become a low slot and armor repairers become a high slot- Yes Reinstate the old movement penalties for armor-Only for non armor races (Full penalty for Caldari Mid-penalty for Minmatar, Current Penalties for Gallente and Amarr) Increase armor CPU cost- No armor doesn't have automatic regenerative properties like shields and the ones that do have a huge PG/DPU consumption Decrease Shield extender CPU/PG cost-No Shields can automatically regain by themselves.
Some of this makes since but it's still obvious that you're looking at this from a shield QQers point of view. Broaden your perspective and look at both sides before you shout crap willy-nilly. |
stlcarlos989
SVER True Blood Public Disorder.
764
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Posted - 2013.12.30 20:51:00 -
[7] - Quote
Sgt Kirk wrote:Damage mods become a low slot and armor repairers become a high slot- Yes Reinstate the old movement penalties for armor-Only for non armor races (Full penalty for Caldari Mid-penalty for Minmatar, Current Penalties for Gallente and Amarr) Increase armor CPU cost- No armor doesn't have automatic regenerative properties like shields and the ones that do have a huge PG/DPU consumption Decrease Shield extender CPU/PG cost-No Shields can automatically regain by themselves.
Some of this makes since but it's still obvious that you're looking at this from a shield QQers point of view. Broaden your perspective and look at both sides before you shout crap willy-nilly. I only said one change not all, and the one I think would be best is the one you agree with.
And I'm not QQing I just armor tank my caldari suit and use damage mods, I adapted but I just want viability brought back to shields.
STB Director, #1 in Warpoints E3 Closed Beta Build
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Delta 749
Kestrel Reconnaissance
2401
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Posted - 2013.12.30 20:51:00 -
[8] - Quote
Changing what slots damage mod and armor reps go to would be interesting but you run into the problem since armor plates still give a much larger HP bonus meaning armor players still have a deep health pool while getting to stack more reps and keep the damage mods on
Im not drunk, the planet just happens to be especially wobbly today.
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Disturbingly Bored
The Strontium Asylum
1349
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Posted - 2013.12.30 20:56:00 -
[9] - Quote
NextDark Knight wrote:Some buddy with CCP's ear doesn't like shield tanking.
No, it's just another example of CCP's "All of the above" balancing.
They ignore a problem for six months, compile all the whine threads, and make every single suggested change at once. e.g. tanks.
The scientific method of changing one thing at a time until you achieve the desired result seems anathema.
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ADAM-OF-EVE
Dead Man's Game
693
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Posted - 2013.12.30 21:02:00 -
[10] - Quote
arm gets damage mods..fair enough
but
shield gets hacking mods,speed mods,damp mods,cpu/pg mods not to mention they run much faster
there is literally nothing else to put in high slots other than shields and damage mods
i do like the idea of arm repairers in the high's though.. i don't use damage mods so this would make my logi suit god mode
in my opinion they should take a whole new look at suit layout and do all tank mods in lows and all utility mods in highs. this means your either arm or shield or omni tanked with a different selection of utility in the highs. creates a more reasonible way of balancing the both sides
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=99075&find
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The dark cloud
The Rainbow Effect
2009
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Posted - 2013.12.30 21:03:00 -
[11] - Quote
Armor doesnt naturally regen like shields. You get very similar numbers when you use 2 plates and 2 reppers compared to 4 shield extenders. Armor is supposed to be brawling up close with very high DPS. Shields are supposed for higher mobility and long range engagements. Additionally you recharge shields way faster then you repair armor. So your point is invalid. Sure i could use 4 complex plates and get insane high amount of HP. But i have to rely on my team to repair me which is honestly not a thing that every 1 does.
And no to damage mods beeing low slot modules simply cause shield users have allready: -Kinetic catalysers (run faster) -kardio regulators (run longer and faster stamina regen) -profile dampeners (stay hidden from active scanners) -PG+CPU upgrades (strecth your fitting to the max, like 4 shield extenders and a proto sidearm+light weapon on top for example)
What does armor have for high slots? -precision enhancers (useless module) -scan range extenders (even more useless due to active scanners) -damage mods (only viable option for a armor tanker) -nanofibril stimulants (or whatever they are called) which enhance your melee damage (yeah right melee is super effective...)
You seriously ask that CCP should take away the only usefull highslot module because you want to be aible to do everything with a caldari/minmatarr suit? And did you ever tried to run around with a suit that has 3-4 complex plates? I highly doubt it cause its painfully slow.
I shall show you a world, a world which you cant imagine, a world full off butthurt n00bs at the other end of my gun
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stlcarlos989
SVER True Blood Public Disorder.
764
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Posted - 2013.12.30 21:06:00 -
[12] - Quote
The dark cloud wrote:Armor doesnt naturally regen like shields. You get very similar numbers when you use 2 plates and 2 reppers compared to 4 shield extenders. Armor is supposed to be brawling up close with very high DPS. Shields are supposed for higher mobility and long range engagements. Additionally you recharge shields way faster then you repair armor. So your point is invalid. Sure i could use 4 complex plates and get insane high amount of HP. But i have to rely on my team to repair me which is honestly not a thing that every 1 does.
And no to damage mods beeing low slot modules simply cause shield users have allready: -Kinetic catalysers (run faster) -kardio regulators (run longer and faster stamina regen) -profile dampeners (stay hidden from active scanners) -PG+CPU upgrades (strecth your fitting to the max, like 4 shield extenders and a proto sidearm+light weapon on top for example)
What does armor have for high slots? -precision enhancers (useless module) -scan range extenders (even more useless due to active scanners) -damage mods (only viable option for a armor tanker) -nanofibril stimulants (or whatever they are called) which enhance your melee damage (yeah right melee is super effective...)
You seriously ask that CCP should take away the only usefull highslot module because you want to be aible to do everything with a caldari/minmatarr suit? And did you ever tried to run around with a suit that has 3-4 complex plates? I highly doubt it cause its painfully slow. Like I posted I would switched armor repairers and damage mods so armor tankers could fit reps and have higher HP
STB Director, #1 in Warpoints E3 Closed Beta Build
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Martyr Saboteur
Amarrtyrs
84
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Posted - 2013.12.30 21:19:00 -
[13] - Quote
stlcarlos989 wrote:Complex shield extenders Give 72 HP and require 54 CPU and 11 PG, while basic armor plates offer 86.7 - 93.5 HP and only 2% movement penalty for 10 CPU and 1 PG. Complex plates offer 148.5 HP at 30 CPU and 12 PG and only a 5% movement penalty. That is ridiculous getting double the HP for almost half the CPU and essentially the same PG and getting to use damage mods in the highs. Suggestions for balance only one of these is needed for balanceDamage mods become a low slot and armor repairers become a high slot Reinstate the old movement penalties for armor Increase armor CPU cost Decrease Shield extender CPU/PG cost CCP you went from Shields>Armor to Armor>>Shields you just need to do one change to get balance I believe damages to lows would be the best since it would match up with EVE and would mean shield tanked suits have less HP but more damage and armor tanked suits would have much higher HP and they would get their armor repairs for the highs. ... balance This one please. It would have ZERO affect on my fittings.
ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQTSTALLION... I AM THE STALLION
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Rifter7
Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance
315
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Posted - 2013.12.30 21:44:00 -
[14] - Quote
mobility = life.
go ahead and stack some armor plates, go on. see what that little drawbacks like. ive got 5 bro. 5. |
Bunny Demon
Scions of Athra
52
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Posted - 2013.12.30 22:46:00 -
[15] - Quote
Moving reppers into highs would mean I would get around 20-25 hp/s with armour regen plus a 10% damage bonus and high level of armour on my amarr logi instead of a 16% damage bonus and 10-15 hp/s regen so it could still be viable You would also then get shield and dmg mods stacked together on assaults which may be slightly better than the current system, I would like to see this change for a patch or 2 to see if it works
Amarr logi ftw :D
(Also...ScR is pretty good)
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Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui
Intara Direct Action Caldari State
257
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Posted - 2013.12.30 22:56:00 -
[16] - Quote
So how will this help Caldari's ???? Regen mods now will be high slots and how will that help Caldari's ??? can anyone help me to understand ??? How does this help to balance shield extenders as well as armor plates ???
" BANE " of ALL vehicle users , Crush , Kill and Destroy ALL vehicles !!!!!
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PEW JACKSON
s i n g u l a r i t y
154
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Posted - 2013.12.30 23:02:00 -
[17] - Quote
If reps got changed to highs, I'd stack two basic plates and 5 complex reps on the Assault MK0 just to see the Wut Dee Fawk!??!? reactions.
Dead on the ground.... Think I made a wrong turn :/
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BuTtHuRtPEepZ
Raging Pack of Homosapiens
121
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Posted - 2013.12.30 23:03:00 -
[18] - Quote
I am for moving armor reps to high slots, but keeping damage mods as is. |
stlcarlos989
SVER True Blood Public Disorder.
769
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Posted - 2013.12.30 23:08:00 -
[19] - Quote
PEW JACKSON wrote:If reps got changed to highs, I'd stack two basic plates and 5 complex reps on the Assault MK0 just to see the Wut Dee Fawk!??!? reactions. you would have very little HP so you would go down quite quickly.
STB Director, #1 in Warpoints E3 Closed Beta Build
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PEW JACKSON
s i n g u l a r i t y
154
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Posted - 2013.12.30 23:12:00 -
[20] - Quote
stlcarlos989 wrote:PEW JACKSON wrote:If reps got changed to highs, I'd stack two basic plates and 5 complex reps on the Assault MK0 just to see the Wut Dee Fawk!??!? reactions. you would have very little HP so you would go down quite quickly.
I doubt it. Around 500 total ehp + the highest med frame strafe speed and over 30 rep/s.
If it turned out bad still, then I'd at least have some sh!ts and giggles using it.
Dead on the ground.... Think I made a wrong turn :/
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Bethhy
Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance
608
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Posted - 2013.12.30 23:13:00 -
[21] - Quote
the shield Balancing that CCP did was a result to shields being FOTM months ago... so they put a penalty on them other then the significant amount of less health points you get for them.
Governments will often act years later to a problem that isnt there anymore. Much the case here sadly. One step forward two backwards. |
Galvan Nized
Deep Space Republic
482
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Posted - 2013.12.30 23:25:00 -
[22] - Quote
The dark cloud wrote:Armor doesnt naturally regen like shields. You get very similar numbers when you use 2 plates and 2 reppers compared to 4 shield extenders. Armor is supposed to be brawling up close with very high DPS. Shields are supposed for higher mobility and long range engagements. Additionally you recharge shields way faster then you repair armor. So your point is invalid. Sure i could use 4 complex plates and get insane high amount of HP. But i have to rely on my team to repair me which is honestly not a thing that every 1 does.
And no to damage mods beeing low slot modules simply cause shield users have allready: -Kinetic catalysers (run faster) -kardio regulators (run longer and faster stamina regen) -profile dampeners (stay hidden from active scanners) -PG+CPU upgrades (strecth your fitting to the max, like 4 shield extenders and a proto sidearm+light weapon on top for example)
What does armor have for high slots? -precision enhancers (useless module) -scan range extenders (even more useless due to active scanners) -damage mods (only viable option for a armor tanker) -nanofibril stimulants (or whatever they are called) which enhance your melee damage (yeah right melee is super effective...)
You seriously ask that CCP should take away the only usefull highslot module because you want to be aible to do everything with a caldari/minmatarr suit? And did you ever tried to run around with a suit that has 3-4 complex plates? I highly doubt it cause its painfully slow.
Armor gets the benefit of healing outside of their own regen, shields do not. And this benefit is higher than anything shields can muster, plus it's cumulative so you can literally repair armor at over 200hp per/sec easy.
Plus there is some mod disparity between lows and highs but just because you don't use precision enhancers dont call them worthless. You also forget rechargers/Energizers and range amplifiers are a low slot. My passive scanning scout lives and dies on precision enhancers and range amplifiers.
Some mods could probably be moved like say PG mods, hacking mods, maybe cardiac regulators, or shield regulators. You could argue armor reps and damage mods.
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