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Pvt Numnutz
Black Phoenix Mercenaries
530
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Posted - 2013.12.30 15:40:00 -
[1] - Quote
Red line rail tanks have always been a problem to dropships, since the days of beta they have camped the redline to hunt dropships. Yesterday I squadded with two excellent gunners and brought the fight to them, we killed a few redline rail tanks. I'm sure some of you are thinking yeah redline rail tanks are killable what's the problem? Well allow me to give you an example of what I believe the main issue with red line rail tanks is.
Skirm on lone harvest and the rail tank is behind the third extractor just under the MCC probably 5-7 seconds into the redline. I notify my gunners and prepare the strafe run. We go in and open up on the tank full force, fly over it spin around and open up again. the tank goes down and we have 8 seconds to get out, I hit the afterburner and make it out with 1 second left on the clock.
So with two highly experienced gunners and a skilled pilot a dropship can take out a rail tank close to the edge of the red line. However I had to put my dropship in a considerable amount of risk to do so.
However the rail tanker called in another rail tank and sat even further back in the red, he had the same cover of the map, only now I would not be able to destroy him without loosing my much more expensive dropship in the process. So I dropped my gunners off to go be useful while I claimed to height celling to see if he would grow a pair. As I was sitting at max height the tank angled itself on an incline and shot me down. Yes a rail tank in the redline shot down a dropship at max flight celling.
So to recap, pu$$y boy red wanted to sit in the red with no danger to his tank and got killed by a combined effort of 3 players in a dropship. He then showed how much of a pu$$y he really was and sat so far back that the 3 players in the dropship couldn't kill him and managed to not only deny the dropship the map but also the sky.
This is a problem, if you think it isn't your a shameful waste of biomass. If he had used an incline to raise his tanks turret out of the redline then that would have been something, maybe if I had seen him I would be able to engage and possibly destroy him. Though he did it from a position only another rail tank would be able to assault. And that rail tank would have to risk his tank to kill the redline tank. Its simply not fair not to mention cheap.
This problem has existed for a long time, it was made worse in 1.7 because of the decrease in charge time. I usually don't get a chance to react after the first shot, and if I do then what? Can't fly anymore, can't fight the problem, I have to hang up my wings because the redline allows cowards to kill from safety.
Its so bad that pilots are hanging up their wings for rail tanks! Yeah its that bad!
So what do we do about this? Something has to be done, its gone on for far to long.
I have suggested disabling vehicle guns in friendly redlines. I thought about making rail turrets more expensive, however that would just contribute to the problem. We have to understand that redline tankers are unhonorable cowards, the thought of loosing a tank for them is too much to actually join the battle.
Please CCP, deny these two shot monsters the safety to sit unapposed to those that risk their vehicles in games to earn their isk. End this now before it continues to get worse. |
Skihids
Bullet Cluster
Legacy Rising
2617
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Posted - 2013.12.30 16:06:00 -
[2] - Quote
The solution is to simply remove the redline. Don't allow anyone to hide anymore.
But what will protect a team that's lost every point and is pushed back to their MCC?
Nothing. If they have been out played that badly they aren't coming back, so simply end the match once every objective is red, there are no frienly uplinks, and the entire team is sitting in the MCC. |
Mitch Laurence
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar
DARKSTAR ARMY
30
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Posted - 2013.12.30 16:30:00 -
[3] - Quote
Watch DUSTfiend's new vid, he kills 2 or 3 redline rail tanks and basically illustrates what needs to be done to take them out. Apparently you need to 'shoot them'.
http://youtu.be/atnP5DMr0nw
or search dustfiend on youtube.
"People will say we're in love." -Hannibal Lecter
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Takahiro Kashuken
Red Star.
EoN.
2092
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Posted - 2013.12.30 16:32:00 -
[4] - Quote
A good rail tanker wouldnt have let you get close because you would have been dead
Intelligence is OP
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Delta90212
Dust2Dust.
Top Men.
137
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Posted - 2013.12.30 16:37:00 -
[5] - Quote
Takahiro Kashuken wrote:A good rail tanker wouldnt have let you get close because you would have been dead
A good rail tanker would have been in the redline
Fear my Minmatarian brothers.
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Flix Keptick
Red Star.
EoN.
3187
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Posted - 2013.12.30 16:38:00 -
[6] - Quote
Takahiro Kashuken wrote:A good rail tanker wouldnt have let you get close because you would have been dead
A good rail tanker should never sit in the redline.
Lack of content makes stuff broken...
Tank driver // specialized tank destroyer
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Serimos Haeraven
The Exemplars
Top Men.
548
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Posted - 2013.12.30 16:40:00 -
[7] - Quote
Hopefully Judge's video will illustrate how hard it is to people who don't fly dropships. And yes, Fiend did manage to take out a few redline tanks, but even in the map he was playing in, that map is easy to hit redline tanks in. There are certain maps (like the one Pvt was talking about) that give redline tanks a huge amount of space to shoot from, to a point that attacking them (even just hitting them once with a missile) is literally impossible. |
Munin-Frey
Fish Spotters Inc.
50
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Posted - 2013.12.30 16:41:00 -
[8] - Quote
Skihids wrote:The solution is to simply remove the redline. Don't allow anyone to hide anymore.
But what will protect a team that's lost every point and is pushed back to their MCC?
Nothing. If they have been out played that badly they aren't coming back, so simply end the match once every objective is red, there are no frienly uplinks, and the entire team is sitting in the MCC.
This
once you've lost, you've lost... the redline is pointless then and the redline is pointless if the battle is balanced... |
mollerz
Minja Scouts
1497
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Posted - 2013.12.30 16:48:00 -
[9] - Quote
They should make the redline suicide timer 120 seconds.
You gotta hustle if you wanna make a dolla
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TechMechMeds
Swamp Marines
Kleenex Inc.
1857
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Posted - 2013.12.30 16:50:00 -
[10] - Quote
Htfu and git gud lol 
Level 1 forum warrior.
Minmatar and Gallente fw.
I sold my wife and kids to the Amarr for isk, its a valid tactic.
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Serimos Haeraven
The Exemplars
Top Men.
551
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Posted - 2013.12.30 16:59:00 -
[11] - Quote
Munin-Frey wrote:Skihids wrote:The solution is to simply remove the redline. Don't allow anyone to hide anymore.
But what will protect a team that's lost every point and is pushed back to their MCC?
Nothing. If they have been out played that badly they aren't coming back, so simply end the match once every objective is red, there are no frienly uplinks, and the entire team is sitting in the MCC. This once you've lost, you've lost... the redline is pointless then and the redline is pointless if the battle is balanced...
I also agree with this suggestion, because even with redlines, teams can still be pushed all the way back to their own redline, basically causing an effect that the redline was supposed to originally avoid. I agree, it's completely useless. |
Operative 1171 Aajli
Bragian Order
Amarr Empire
959
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Posted - 2013.12.30 17:15:00 -
[12] - Quote
First of all GÇö game
Stop bringing owardice and bravery into the arguement. It demeans the ppl that deal with real bravery in the real world and to say that anybody on any battlefield real or imagined is a coward is to misunderstand the concept of cowardice.
Second GÇö you made it worse for yourself by destroying the first tank. You want an advantage but you don't want the opponent to have the same. If he is off the redline then you can hover over him in his blind spot. He will seldom get a shot on you from any closer on the map due to not being able to raise his turret that high.
Third GÇö you were trying to claim the height ceiling, aka the redline in the sky.
The real problem GÇö the maps (both in size and terrain LoS)
Do your part. Join the revolution. Sabotage FW. Help this game burn!
BURN DUST 2014
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Serimos Haeraven
The Exemplars
Top Men.
552
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Posted - 2013.12.30 17:22:00 -
[13] - Quote
Operative 1171 Aajli wrote:First of all GÇö game
Stop bringing owardice and bravery into the arguement. It demeans the ppl that deal with real bravery in the real world.
Second GÇö you made it worse for yourself by destroying the first tank. You want an advantage but you don't want the opponent to have the same. If he is off the redline then you can hover over him in his blind spot. He will weldom get a sho on you from any closer on the map due to not being able to raise his turret that high.
Third GÇö you were trying to claim the height ceiling, aka the redline in the sky.
The real problem GÇö the maps (both in size and terrain LoS)
I'm just going to slap this down before it can be considered a logical response to the redline tank problem. Okay first of all, I don't even really understand why you say that because a player acts "brave or cowardly" in a match that demands people deal with bravery in the real world? uh..... wut? What he meant by tankers "growing a pair" is eventually choosing to stop sitting in 1 place the entire game and actually try to get kills fairly (which they do if you don't show your dropship in the air) and this is not the appropriate fix to the problem, because it requires the tanker getting away from the problem in the first place. It has nothing to do with being brave or a coward, only letting tanks leave the redline so we can actually have a chance.
And the truth about this is that railgun tanks actually have a quite high angle that turrets can reach when just on the flat ground, couple that with leaning on a hill or mountain (even outside the redline) and you have the potential for easy dropship kills outside of the redline (completely fair). And if they can't find a good hill and are being attacked, they can simply drive under a structure or complex and be perfectly safe, hell they can even recall their tank in seconds if they are that scared.
And now third here, you say that the height celing is our "redline in the sky", I have heard this argument from a prominent railgun redline camper in Ancient Exiles, and it's simple, flat out, bull ****. Dropships can't hit anything or even get anywhere close to hitting anything from the height celing, let alone deal 2000+ dmg from across the map in 1 shot. The height ceiling (if compared to what a tanker would do) is equal to a tanker hiding under a structure to get away from the shots coming in. Those two are equal, not the redline and the height ceiling, that's completely preposterous.
And EVEN THEN, redline railgun tanks can destroy dropships at the height ceiling, so redline tanks have the ability to hide under structures and the redline while still projecting shots into the height ceiling making literally no area safe for a dropship pilot, while the redline railgun tanker has multiple places to hide behind, and can even destroy vehicles with ease while hiding. It's overpowered, and a flawed mechanic, there's no way around it. |
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