DUST Search - What do you think of Heavies + LAVs?

G Torq wrote:

[quote=Logi Bro]I imagine the animation would be about 3-4 seconds long/quote]
Light weapons output 400+ HP/sec, more so if skilled and with dmg mods (pushing 700/sec for lasers).
Heavies have 1000-1600 hp.

You're asking to have 3-4 seconds, in which you can trivially kill the heavy, without a single risk to yourself; sorry, no.

Some counters:
1) AV Grenades
Yes, they don't 1-shot the LAV (good!), but they do significant damage, and can make the driver decide that now is not the best time to get park.

2) Groups
Any group of 3 players WILL out-DPS a heavy to an extent that the heavy will die before any one on your side dies.

3) Proximity Mines
Not only can they currently trivially kill a LAV, with the current crying about making them better at killing HAVs, they'll be even better at murdering LAVs
Place them in choke-points, and stay on the safe side, possibly try baiting the LAV drivers

4) Environment
Use the environment (buildings/crates, stairs etc) to your advantage. Stay in areas where LAVs cannot reach, move behind an obstacle when an LAV approaches at high speed

If you stop crying for a moment, I'm sure you can think of others.


Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 0 post(s)
Logi Bro Greatness Achieved Through Training EoN. 2522	Posted - 2013.12.29 20:02:00 - [1] - Quote Before somebody says that I'm just butthurt about how powerful the HMG is now, I'm not. This is more about the combination of heavy suits with an LAV driving around, jumping out, and eating people. Here's the problem: the heavy's only weakness is his mobility. (And no equipment slot, but whatever) You could argue that the heavy suits have another weakness by having less module slots than medium suits, but remember that the only heavy suit we have at the moment is the Amarr suit, and they always have the least modules. But anyways, mobility is the heavy's biggest weakness. They have the greatest tank, the best firepower, etc. So driving around in an LAV completely negates the heavy's only weakness, making it incredibly powerful. Why should they be allowed to do this? I do it all the time, personally, and I find that there is barely any counter(AV grenades do the trick, but hardly anyone uses those, and you need all three to destroy just one LAV, so not so practical). Hell, I've even seen other people use Sica's to roll up on people, jump out and annihilate them, then jump back in the Sica and drive off to their next victim. So here's my question: do you think this is working as intended? Should heavies be allowed to cope with their greatest weakness with an incredibly easy, low risk ride like the LAV? Should some sort of animation be added for a heavy suit getting in and out of a vehicle to nerf their ganking power? I imagine the animation would be about 3-4 seconds long, just enough to put the ball back in the victim's court. Thoughts, please. No, I am not CCP Logibro. Not actually a Logi Bro anymore, more like a Big Bro.
Logi Bro Greatness Achieved Through Training EoN. 2522	Posted - 2013.12.29 20:27:00 - [2] - Quote Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Its fine Its not like he can drive the LAV through the door and up the stairs and across the footbridge just to get out and kill you and there is counters you lazy infantry **** Yes, I suppose if I did carry a forge gun with me everywhere I went, I would have a counter for this. But then again, that defeats the purpose of me using the heavy suit the carry an HMG. Otherwise, every other counter is impractical and not very effective. Let's tale a look at them: -AV grenades? You sacrifice the ability to carry the most powerful AI weapon, and it takes three AV nades to kill a MLT LAV now, since they are so damn tanky. Ineffective. -Swarm launcher? Just about as effective as the AV nades, except slower to fire. Ineffective. -Don't ever go where an LAV can get to me? That's just stupid logic, seeing as how this game's maps are all 99% open fields. Impractical. -Always drive around in my own vehicle? So now we have the same issue that tanks have, the best counter is to do the same thing everyone else does. Not like this game would have any real variety, right? But please, do tell the counter that you were thinking of. No, I am not CCP Logibro. Not actually a Logi Bro anymore, more like a Big Bro.
Logi Bro Greatness Achieved Through Training EoN. 2522	Posted - 2013.12.29 20:41:00 - [3] - Quote Takahiro Kashuken wrote: AV nades - you refuse to carry them, your fault if this playstyle plauges you since you wont adapt I just said that they couldn't kill LAVs, but whatever your tunnel vision shows you must be what I said. Swarms - full clip fired in less than 4seconds, thats fast Too bad four seconds is four times the time it takes for an LAV to come around a corner, the heavy suit to jump out, and eat you alive. Seeing how you are holding an AV weapon as a primary, you have no chance of defending yourself. Open fields - lolno stop lying Really? You're just being purposely dense now. 99% was obviously a hyperbole, not meant to be taken literally. In reality, the open space is closer to about 70% of maps. Always drive - your choice My choice, maybe, but the only choice I CAN make. xD You couldn't come up with one reasonable counter to what I said? I'm disappoint. No, I am not CCP Logibro. Not actually a Logi Bro anymore, more like a Big Bro.
Logi Bro Greatness Achieved Through Training EoN. 2522	Posted - 2013.12.29 20:46:00 - [4] - Quote Stinker Butt wrote: it doesn't seem reasonable to nerf the heavy and nobody else. hmg is still not as good as the rail rifle, so if you're going to nerf the heavy, you need to do it to all the suits. besides, isn't the LAV meant for quick transport of your troops? if you take that away, I don't know what you're going to do with it. it's not as common as you would think because it's not as easy as it seems. the lav seems to attract a lot of attention from orbitals, swarms, and AV nades. especially since none of those are effective on tanks anymore. A well equipped heavy + LAV only needs to die once and he's probably going to lose ISK that match. I do use the tactic, and I see others attempt the same on me, but they are usually unsuccessful. The best is when they try to run away in that weak ass LAV and BOOM! +50, +40 points. A lot of people try to jump out solo right in the middle of a hot mess. When I recommended the animation, I meant to say that it would encompass all the suits, my bad if that was not communicated properly. I forgot to say that I thought based on the suit you used, the animation would take more or less time. Light suits get out quickest(maybe even no delay at all), medium suits get out quick-ish, and heavy suits get out the slowest(like I said, about 3-4 seconds.) And while I agree the LAV should take you from point A to point B quickly, it shouldn't take you to the center of a firefight faster than people can react. You can drive up behind some cover, jump out of the LAV, and then get into the fight even with this animation nerf. No, I am not CCP Logibro. Not actually a Logi Bro anymore, more like a Big Bro.
Logi Bro Greatness Achieved Through Training EoN. 2522	Posted - 2013.12.29 20:54:00 - [5] - Quote Stinker Butt wrote: It doesn't take 3 AV nades, but assuming it does, 1 flux nade + 1 swarm is all it takes for 90% of the LAVs. throw the flux, then lock on with swarms. As soon as the flux goes off, release the swarms (+20% dmg to armor) and BOOM! try it. high ground is good against all vehicles, and all infantry. So don't be afraid to go up those stairs. with the current tank spam, most LAVs don't last long on the map anyway. if there aren't any blue tanks, you could always call in a militia tank in 10 seconds, destroy the LAV less than 1 second, then recall the tank in 5 seconds. Alright, I get that you are trying to be reasonable, but that's incorrect. The Baloch has base armor of 2450, and PRO swarms do 220 per missile with 6 missiles in one volley. That means, assuming your flux takes out the 650 shields on the Baloch, you will hit the LAV with 1320 damage, multiply by the 1.2 that explosives do to armor, making it 1584 damage. That's assuming you even field PRO weaponry in a pub match, with is unlikely. It would destroy a Onikuma, perhaps, but I see very few people use those. And my problem isn't that vehicles are hard to kill, it's that they charge in on a position faster that you can do anything about. I can't get to high ground before that LAV that just pulled up next to me unleashes all hell. No, I am not CCP Logibro. Not actually a Logi Bro anymore, more like a Big Bro.
Logi Bro Greatness Achieved Through Training EoN. 2522	Posted - 2013.12.29 20:57:00 - [6] - Quote Kira Lannister wrote: Why is Logi Bro in a training corp? Your a Logi Pro. There's a very long answer to go to that question. Let me just suffice to say that I forgot that I was trying to join a corp, and I just stayed in the mandatory training corp they had put me in for two-week screening. (This was during the times when spies would AWOX in pub matches, so screening was a good idea) No, I am not CCP Logibro. Not actually a Logi Bro anymore, more like a Big Bro.
Logi Bro Greatness Achieved Through Training EoN. 2522	Posted - 2013.12.29 21:07:00 - [7] - Quote Takahiro Kashuken wrote: They can be killed - stop lying Alright then, I guess I'll bust out the math. Do you carry PRO AV nades where-ever you go? Unlikely. So ADV AV grenades do 870 damage per nade, and like I said in a previous comment, the Baloch I use has 2450 base armor and 650 base shields. 870.8 explosive damage to shields goes to 696, meaning it takes out the shields then inflicts 461.2 explosive damage to armor, leaving my LAV with 2394 armor. Beyond this point is moot. By now the heavy has already exited the LAV, and is shooting at you. You can throw your next grenade in an attempt to spite him, but lets look at that. 870*1.2 explosive damage to armor is 1044, leaving my LAV with 1350 armor. Even if you aren't dead by then, your next grenade does 1044 damage to armor, and my LAV survives with 306 armor. Unless you carry PRO AV nades everywhere, you can't kill the base health on a MLT LAV. No, I am not CCP Logibro. Not actually a Logi Bro anymore, more like a Big Bro.
Logi Bro Greatness Achieved Through Training EoN. 2522	Posted - 2013.12.29 21:17:00 - [8] - Quote G Torq wrote: [quote=Logi Bro]I imagine the animation would be about 3-4 seconds long/quote] Light weapons output 400+ HP/sec, more so if skilled and with dmg mods (pushing 700/sec for lasers). Heavies have 1000-1600 hp. You're asking to have 3-4 seconds, in which you can trivially kill the heavy, without a single risk to yourself; sorry, no. Some counters: 1) AV Grenades Yes, they don't 1-shot the LAV (good!), but they do significant damage, and can make the driver decide that now is not the best time to get park. 2) Groups Any group of 3 players WILL out-DPS a heavy to an extent that the heavy will die before any one on your side dies. 3) Proximity Mines Not only can they currently trivially kill a LAV, with the current crying about making them better at killing HAVs, they'll be even better at murdering LAVs Place them in choke-points, and stay on the safe side, possibly try baiting the LAV drivers 4) Environment Use the environment (buildings/crates, stairs etc) to your advantage. Stay in areas where LAVs cannot reach, move behind an obstacle when an LAV approaches at high speed If you stop crying for a moment, I'm sure you can think of others. You obviously don't understand what crying is, I have considered your possibilities. Let me start with the easiest to explain and then move from there. Prox mines are bugged, they detonate long after the fast moving LAVs have passed by them. Also, you expect someone to throw prox mines on the ground AFTER an LAV has rolled up on them, and the heavy is shooting at them? What logic is that? Unless you didn't read jack, and you for some reason thought this thread was about LAVs being hard to kill and nothing else. Environment, yeah, that can help, but as I mentioned before 70% of this game's maps are open land. If you want to go from some point A to some other point B, chances are you will have to go through an open space. Where an LAV can roll up and decimate you. AV grenades, go ahead and take a look at a previous post I made doing the math. So that leaves one tactic, groups. I admit that this is valid, and will counter the LAV. But it's just one counter, then only thing anybody has said so far that is a legitimate counter to this tactic. There needs to be multiple counters to every thing, else there is no variety. I await to see your crying response that has no real logic behind it. No, I am not CCP Logibro. Not actually a Logi Bro anymore, more like a Big Bro.
Logi Bro Greatness Achieved Through Training EoN. 2522	Posted - 2013.12.29 21:29:00 - [9] - Quote Stinker Butt wrote: turn up your volume. you can hear an LAV coming from a mile away. look at where it is before it gets to you, take aim at the driver side door and get ready for a fight. I don't get killed, I am the one killing other people. You forget that I've already said that I use this tactic, and I feel it is negating the only vulnerability that the heavy suits have. No, I am not CCP Logibro. Not actually a Logi Bro anymore, more like a Big Bro.
Logi Bro Greatness Achieved Through Training EoN. 2522	Posted - 2013.12.29 21:45:00 - [10] - Quote Stinker Butt wrote: Logi Bro wrote: Stinker Butt wrote: turn up your volume. you can hear an LAV coming from a mile away. look at where it is before it gets to you, take aim at the driver side door and get ready for a fight. I don't get killed, I am the one killing other people. You forget that I've already said that I use this tactic, and I feel it is negating the only vulnerability that the heavy suits have. they are just suggestions for the poor unfortunate victims you are concerned about. Do you know how many people are listening to music, or arguing with their parents, or just have terrible situational awareness? It's hilarious when I pull up with my headlights blaring on them and they just stand there looking away. A heavies inability to get across the map is only one weakness. no significant strafing or movement, no equipment, extremely long reload times. Also the people that use this tactic are usually solo, which can be a big disadvantage. Just curious, what if a heavy is dropped from a drop ship? should this be nerfed too? It fits your argument. Dropping from a dropship will either make you take fall damage, partially crippling your combat effectiveness, or you will be forced to activate dampeners, which both make a loud noise and also immobilize you for a second or two. So it has a risk/reward feature to it, unlike the low risk/high reward that goes with jumping out of an LAV. There needs to be at least a small downside to using this tactic, is what I am saying. No, I am not CCP Logibro. Not actually a Logi Bro anymore, more like a Big Bro.

Logi Bro Greatness Achieved Through Training EoN. 2522	Posted - 2013.12.29 22:12:00 - [11] - Quote Stinker Butt wrote: Logi Bro wrote: Dropping from a dropship will either make you take fall damage, partially crippling your combat effectiveness, or you will be forced to activate dampeners, which both make a loud noise and also immobilize you for a second or two. So it has a risk/reward feature to it, unlike the low risk/high reward that goes with jumping out of an LAV. There needs to be at least a small downside to using this tactic, is what I am saying. it's less than 1 second to stand up if you activate dampeners, not really much risk. LAV's make noise too, and lights. driving an LAV is low risk? I don't believe that at all. the LAV alone costs more than most other suits and they blow up all the time. The MLT LAV costs about 20k ISK. IDK how rich you are, but that's chump's change to me. My most commonly used suit is about 50k ISK, about 2.5 times as much as the LAV costs. No, I am not CCP Logibro. Not actually a Logi Bro anymore, more like a Big Bro.