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[Request] Stop handing out freebies

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Aikuchi Tomaru Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 1426	Posted - 2013.12.27 17:52:00 - [1] - Quote In Eve Online you get nothing for free. You want ISK? You go mining, you do missions you loot. You have to do something. Passive income is curretly only possible via PI and is something CCP wants to change there. In Dust all we get is passive income. We get LP / ISK / SP just for participation. And as we all know this enables AFKing and kind of also removes the desire to play the game. Ok, you get bonus SP for participation, but that's it. Everything else is a freebie for something your team accomplished. THis is really something that should go. Everything should be calculated from the WP you earned and the outcome of the match. For example if you win a faction warfare match but didn't manage to get at least some WP then you shouldn't get anything. Neither LP, standing or loot. The players who really participated should get more on the other hand then. Same for Instant matches. If you get lots of WP on the other hand you should get more than just 75 standing and a few hundred LP in FW for example. In Dust 514 we currently only farm matches. And you can introduce sophisticated anti afk systems like you want, nothing will change when we still get freebies for "participation". And I know this will make it harder for newbros. But this is New Eden. If you don't do anything you shouldn't get anything. And currently everything you do is passive income. Sign up for Caldari FW and defeat the evil Gallente Overlords!
Dustbunny Durrr ReD or DeaD 18	Posted - 2013.12.27 18:24:00 - [2] - Quote Aikuchi Tomaru wrote: In Eve Online you get nothing for free. You want ISK? You go mining, you do missions you loot. You have to do something. Passive income is curretly only possible via PI and is something CCP wants to change there. In Dust all we get is passive income. We get LP / ISK / SP just for participation. And as we all know this enables AFKing and kind of also removes the desire to play the game. Ok, you get bonus SP for participation, but that's it. Everything else is a freebie for something your team accomplished. THis is really something that should go. Everything should be calculated from the WP you earned and the outcome of the match. For example if you win a faction warfare match but didn't manage to get at least some WP then you shouldn't get anything. Neither LP, standing or loot. The players who really participated should get more on the other hand then. Same for Instant matches. If you get lots of WP on the other hand you should get more than just 75 standing and a few hundred LP in FW for example. In Dust 514 we currently only farm matches. And you can introduce sophisticated anti afk systems like you want, nothing will change when we still get freebies for "participation". And I know this will make it harder for newbros. But this is New Eden. If you don't do anything you shouldn't get anything. And currently everything you do is passive income. FW is a seperate beast, as I think its meant to be more competitive play than typical pubs. For pub matches though, there is a formula similar to (The 'official' formula hasn't been released AFAIK, but with trial and error I have noticed it to be) x/y = your payout ratio. Where: X is your WP Y is your teams total WP As an example, if you score 2000 WP, and the rest of your team only scores 6,000 WP combined, your payout would be 1/4 (2000 / (2000+6000)) of the payout for the whole team. So if there is 1.6M ISK to be divided up (I don't know the exact number, nor do I know if it is a constant or variable, but we will use 1.6 as an example) you will get 400K ISK. If on the other hand you score the same 2000 WP, yet the rest of your team scores 18,000 WP, your new payout ratio will be 1/10 of your team's total. If we assume the same 1.6M ISK team payout, then your payout would be 160K. That being said, you do get more payout for doing better, and not only better, but better on a worse team.
Aikuchi Tomaru Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 1428	Posted - 2013.12.27 18:26:00 - [3] - Quote Dustbunny Durrr wrote: Aikuchi Tomaru wrote: In Eve Online you get nothing for free. You want ISK? You go mining, you do missions you loot. You have to do something. Passive income is curretly only possible via PI and is something CCP wants to change there. In Dust all we get is passive income. We get LP / ISK / SP just for participation. And as we all know this enables AFKing and kind of also removes the desire to play the game. Ok, you get bonus SP for participation, but that's it. Everything else is a freebie for something your team accomplished. THis is really something that should go. Everything should be calculated from the WP you earned and the outcome of the match. For example if you win a faction warfare match but didn't manage to get at least some WP then you shouldn't get anything. Neither LP, standing or loot. The players who really participated should get more on the other hand then. Same for Instant matches. If you get lots of WP on the other hand you should get more than just 75 standing and a few hundred LP in FW for example. In Dust 514 we currently only farm matches. And you can introduce sophisticated anti afk systems like you want, nothing will change when we still get freebies for "participation". And I know this will make it harder for newbros. But this is New Eden. If you don't do anything you shouldn't get anything. And currently everything you do is passive income. FW is a seperate beast, as I think its meant to be more competitive play than typical pubs. For pub matches though, there is a formula similar to (The 'official' formula hasn't been released AFAIK, but with trial and error I have noticed it to be) x/y = your payout ratio. Where: X is your WP Y is your teams total WP As an example, if you score 2000 WP, and the rest of your team only scores 6,000 WP combined, your payout would be 1/4 (2000 / (2000+6000)) of the payout for the whole team. So if there is 1.6M ISK to be divided up (I don't know the exact number, nor do I know if it is a constant or variable, but we will use 1.6 as an example) you will get 400K ISK. If on the other hand you score the same 2000 WP, yet the rest of your team scores 18,000 WP, your new payout ratio will be 1/10 of your team's total. If we assume the same 1.6M ISK team payout, then your payout would be 160K. That being said, you do get more payout for doing better, and not only better, but better on a worse team. You still get payout for doing nothing at all. This is the problem. And SP of course. Sign up for Caldari FW and defeat the evil Gallente Overlords!
ALPHA DECRIPTER Dragon-Empire 654	Posted - 2013.12.27 20:17:00 - [4] - Quote Don't take away my passive SP! Unless your just talking about the 5sp/s you get during matches, that I understand. If so then what? 5 SP per WP? As for FW loot I suppose you could base it off of %. If you gain 20% of the team's WPs than you get 20% of the loot. This would cause AFKers to gain nothing! Then there's LP/ISK. I say keep as is BUT you need to gain at least 500 WPs in order to gain any LP. This limit can be reduced to 250 WP for ISK payouts. This would force AFKers to at least do SOMETHING before going AFK. And if they suck then they will have to deal with losing fits. The change to SP should be enough though as this would encourage the AFKers to grab the daily bonus and leave so that the rest of us can at least have full teams. Well that's my 2_ISK. Scout Tactician "You have been Scanned"
Artificer Ghost Bojo's School of the Trades 859	Posted - 2013.12.27 20:30:00 - [5] - Quote ALPHA, it's 0.02 ISK. FTFY. ~Art, CEO and Director of Educations at Bojo's School of The Trades, Co-Founder of the Learning Coalition
Vermaak Doe SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 1095	Posted - 2013.12.27 20:33:00 - [6] - Quote If I join a ratting fleet and neither shoot nor contribute in any way I still make isk. "Always fight dirty, the victor writes history"
ALPHA DECRIPTER Dragon-Empire 655	Posted - 2013.12.27 20:36:00 - [7] - Quote Artificer Ghost wrote: ALPHA, it's 0.02 ISK. FTFY. Yea but I like to give more Scout Tactician "You have been Scanned"
Aikuchi Tomaru Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 1431	Posted - 2013.12.27 21:22:00 - [8] - Quote ALPHA DECRIPTER wrote: Don't take away my passive SP! Unless your just talking about the 5sp/s you get during matches, that I understand. If so then what? 5 SP per WP? Active SP should definitely be scaled if the passive SP are removed. So maybe *5? If you get 1000 WP you get 5000 SP. And then maybe they should rework the WP a little bit. They should reintroduce things like vehicle repair SP and I think they should remove giving you WP for destroying neutral turrets and so on. It should reflect the "helping your team"-part more. In Eve Online you get LP for killing enemies and completing missions. In Dust ist should be all about helping your team one way or another (and in my opinion destroying neutral turrets at the beginning of the match for WP which you could hack to actually defend a point is not helping your team). Sign up for Caldari FW and defeat the evil Gallente Overlords!
Jooki Chewaka Stalking Wolfpack 65	Posted - 2013.12.27 21:57:00 - [9] - Quote Sorry brah, you forgot datacores, they are also passive income in eve. See you from orbit
Sam Toucan The Vanguardians INTERGALACTIC WARPIGS 9	Posted - 2013.12.27 22:12:00 - [10] - Quote I do not agree with Aikuchi Tomaru. His whole idea is not smart in my opinion. CCP knows what their doing in this aspect. What Aikuchi wants is something that will make the game so that people who play this exclusively, and are really good at it, will get ahead and be able to stomp the crap out newbies, even worse than they already do. This game is also supposed to be fun. When people first start playing dust. Their supposed to have fun. And if their trying to figure stuff out, their probably not going to accomplish as much as a veteran. It wouldn't be fair if they didn't get anything for just trying to figure out the games dynamics. If that were the case, then they wouldn't be able to understand things by themselves because they wouldn't have enough isk to try anything. Then, many newcomers would choose not to continue playing the game.

Aikuchi Tomaru Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 1432	Posted - 2013.12.27 22:23:00 - [11] - Quote Sam Toucan wrote: I do not agree with Aikuchi Tomaru. His whole idea is not smart in my opinion. CCP knows what their doing in this aspect. What Aikuchi wants is something that will make the game so that people who play this exclusively, and are really good at it, will get ahead and be able to stomp the crap out newbies, even worse than they already do. This game is also supposed to be fun. When people first start playing dust. Their supposed to have fun. And if their trying to figure stuff out, their probably not going to accomplish as much as a veteran. It wouldn't be fair if they didn't get anything for just trying to figure out the games dynamics. If that were the case, then they wouldn't be able to understand things by themselves because they wouldn't have enough isk to try anything. Then, many newcomers would choose not to continue playing the game. What new players need is PvE. A place where they can win regardless of equipment. PvP is too harsh a place. Sign up for Caldari FW and defeat the evil Gallente Overlords!
deepfried salad gilliam Sanguine Knights 343	Posted - 2013.12.27 22:52:00 - [12] - Quote i do agree that payouts should be rescaled. it should not be based soley on wp i beleive pay should be determined by isk lost by enemy,win or loss,wp,kills,deaths,objectives taken. "May God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ give you grace and peace" - Second Corinthians chapter one verse two.
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics League of Infamy 1408	Posted - 2013.12.27 22:54:00 - [13] - Quote Aikuchi Tomaru wrote: Sam Toucan wrote: I do not agree with Aikuchi Tomaru. His whole idea is not smart in my opinion. CCP knows what their doing in this aspect. What Aikuchi wants is something that will make the game so that people who play this exclusively, and are really good at it, will get ahead and be able to stomp the crap out newbies, even worse than they already do. This game is also supposed to be fun. When people first start playing dust. Their supposed to have fun. And if their trying to figure stuff out, their probably not going to accomplish as much as a veteran. It wouldn't be fair if they didn't get anything for just trying to figure out the games dynamics. If that were the case, then they wouldn't be able to understand things by themselves because they wouldn't have enough isk to try anything. Then, many newcomers would choose not to continue playing the game. What new players need is PvE. A place where they can win regardless of equipment. PvP is too harsh a place. And once PvE shows up (soonGäó), we can consider changing ISK payouts. Until then it needs to stay like it is. (Agree with you on LP, that needs to be fixed to reward effort on the winning AND losing sides) "The line between disorder and order lies in logistics" -Sun Tzu Amarr victor!
Smooth Assassin Stardust incorporation 563	Posted - 2013.12.27 23:29:00 - [14] - Quote Sure they have a massive link but they don't have to be exactly the same, after all dust is the opposite of EVE, ground and air the 2 dimensionals *Assassination is my thing.*
Alam Storm Third Rock From The Sun INTERGALACTIC WARPIGS 43	Posted - 2013.12.27 23:41:00 - [15] - Quote Aikuchi Tomaru wrote: In Eve Online you get nothing for free. You want ISK? You go mining, you do missions you loot. You have to do something. Passive income is curretly only possible via PI and is something CCP wants to change there. In Dust all we get is passive income. We get LP / ISK / SP just for participation. And as we all know this enables AFKing and kind of also removes the desire to play the game. Ok, you get bonus SP for participation, but that's it. Everything else is a freebie for something your team accomplished. THis is really something that should go. Everything should be calculated from the WP you earned and the outcome of the match. For example if you win a faction warfare match but didn't manage to get at least some WP then you shouldn't get anything. Neither LP, standing or loot. The players who really participated should get more on the other hand then. Same for Instant matches. If you get lots of WP on the other hand you should get more than just 75 standing and a few hundred LP in FW for example. In Dust 514 we currently only farm matches. And you can introduce sophisticated anti afk systems like you want, nothing will change when we still get freebies for "participation". And I know this will make it harder for newbros. But this is New Eden. If you don't do anything you shouldn't get anything. And currently everything you do is passive income. if you go AFK before deploying you get kicked from game and if you are standing in same spot for 2 mins in game you will be booted out and whole point of you getting some SP even if you didnt manage to do much is to help new players how would u feel being a noob to the game going against prototypes not being able to get kills or being continuously spawn killed and because of that you didn't get any WP or SP for the match it will p*ss loads of people off
ladwar Death by Disassociation Zero-Day 1933	Posted - 2013.12.28 00:16:00 - [16] - Quote Dustbunny Durrr wrote: Aikuchi Tomaru wrote: In Eve Online you get nothing for free. You want ISK? You go mining, you do missions you loot. You have to do something. Passive income is curretly only possible via PI and is something CCP wants to change there. In Dust all we get is passive income. We get LP / ISK / SP just for participation. And as we all know this enables AFKing and kind of also removes the desire to play the game. Ok, you get bonus SP for participation, but that's it. Everything else is a freebie for something your team accomplished. THis is really something that should go. Everything should be calculated from the WP you earned and the outcome of the match. For example if you win a faction warfare match but didn't manage to get at least some WP then you shouldn't get anything. Neither LP, standing or loot. The players who really participated should get more on the other hand then. Same for Instant matches. If you get lots of WP on the other hand you should get more than just 75 standing and a few hundred LP in FW for example. In Dust 514 we currently only farm matches. And you can introduce sophisticated anti afk systems like you want, nothing will change when we still get freebies for "participation". And I know this will make it harder for newbros. But this is New Eden. If you don't do anything you shouldn't get anything. And currently everything you do is passive income. FW is a seperate beast, as I think its meant to be more competitive play than typical pubs. For pub matches though, there is a formula similar to (The 'official' formula hasn't been released AFAIK, but with trial and error I have noticed it to be) x/y = your payout ratio. Where: X is your WP Y is your teams total WP As an example, if you score 2000 WP, and the rest of your team only scores 6,000 WP combined, your payout would be 1/4 (2000 / (2000+6000)) of the payout for the whole team. So if there is 1.6M ISK to be divided up (I don't know the exact number, nor do I know if it is a constant or variable, but we will use 1.6 as an example) you will get 400K ISK. If on the other hand you score the same 2000 WP, yet the rest of your team scores 18,000 WP, your new payout ratio will be 1/10 of your team's total. If we assume the same 1.6M ISK team payout, then your payout would be 160K. That being said, you do get more payout for doing better, and not only better, but better on a worse team. lol not even close to how it works. first there is passive isk gains just like sp, second there is per match reward(don't even need to spawn to get it, its low thou) and other factors for pub matches. Level 2 Forum Warrior, retired vet. I shall smite Thy Trolls with numbers and truth not looking for a corp, don't ask.
Aikuchi Tomaru Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 1435	Posted - 2013.12.28 14:34:00 - [17] - Quote Alam Storm wrote: Aikuchi Tomaru wrote: In Eve Online you get nothing for free. You want ISK? You go mining, you do missions you loot. You have to do something. Passive income is curretly only possible via PI and is something CCP wants to change there. In Dust all we get is passive income. We get LP / ISK / SP just for participation. And as we all know this enables AFKing and kind of also removes the desire to play the game. Ok, you get bonus SP for participation, but that's it. Everything else is a freebie for something your team accomplished. THis is really something that should go. Everything should be calculated from the WP you earned and the outcome of the match. For example if you win a faction warfare match but didn't manage to get at least some WP then you shouldn't get anything. Neither LP, standing or loot. The players who really participated should get more on the other hand then. Same for Instant matches. If you get lots of WP on the other hand you should get more than just 75 standing and a few hundred LP in FW for example. In Dust 514 we currently only farm matches. And you can introduce sophisticated anti afk systems like you want, nothing will change when we still get freebies for "participation". And I know this will make it harder for newbros. But this is New Eden. If you don't do anything you shouldn't get anything. And currently everything you do is passive income. if you go AFK before deploying you get kicked from game and if you are standing in same spot for 2 mins in game you will be booted out We all know humanity invented rubber bands. Quote: and whole point of you getting some SP even if you didnt manage to do much is to help new players Then maybe they should change it after you have a good amount of SP. So after 10 million you only get active SP for example. Sign up for Caldari FW and defeat the evil Gallente Overlords!
Munin-Frey Fish Spotters Inc. 38	Posted - 2013.12.28 14:45:00 - [18] - Quote No to getting rid of passive skill points... This thread started off as a make Dust more like EVE thread.... In EVE the ONLY way to get skill points is passive. There is no active skill point system in EVE.
Aikuchi Tomaru Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 1435	Posted - 2013.12.28 14:51:00 - [19] - Quote Munin-Frey wrote: No to getting rid of passive skill points... This thread started off as a make Dust more like EVE thread.... In EVE the ONLY way to get skill points is passive. There is no active skill point system in EVE. I'm talking about removing passive SP / ISK / LP from the matches. Sign up for Caldari FW and defeat the evil Gallente Overlords!


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