DUST Search - An idea to perhaps making excessive proto stomping less attractive (tiered warpo...

PADDEHATPIGEN wrote:

This is a copy of a post I made yestoday.

We all know about the vet proto stumping and risk vs reward problems but we also want to feel like gods in proto gear and kill newbees and also as a neewbee we want to get the OHH YEAH feeling of taking down a proto vet. We want players to be able to do it all and use it all and go where ever they want to be.
The New Eden way=ƒÿÄ

This is some ideas i have been thinking about.

In Eve online we already have security zones, high, low and nul sec.
Why not use them in Dust ?

High sec is where you start as a neewb, but you can still go there as an adv or pro vet but as a adv or pro vet in high sec battles you get a penalty in WP/SP and ISK. For all the things you do, pro vets would get a high penalty, advs a lower one, newbs would get the usual WP/SP for killing other newbs and get a bonus for killing adv and a bigger bonus for pros when they kill them.
In high sec it all should be at a normal rate from somewhere between
0-10 mill. SP. All above 10 mill. SP. gets a penalty in WP/SP and ISK rewards.

Low sec is where you want to go as soon as get to use advanced gear and weapons or from 10-20 mill. SP. If you want normal rate of WP/SP and ISK rewards even for killing a newb who is trying his/her luck or if you as a newb want a bonus for killing, but if you have more then 20 mill. SP. You still get a penalty in WP/SP and ISK rewards.

Nul sec is where the pro vets from 20 mill. SP. Want to be if they want a normal rate of WP/SP and ISK rewards but newbs and advs can still go there if they want to try there luck and get some bonuses for killing.

A newb should get 25% bonus for an adv kill and 50% for a pro kill no matter where the battle is.

An adv should get 25% bonus for a pro kill no matter where the battle is and a 25% penalty for a newb kill but only if the battle is in a high sec zone, if it's in low/nul sec it's still at a normal rate.

Pros should get a 25% penalty for an adv kill and 50% penalty for a newb kill if the battle is in a high or low sec zone, but still get the normal rate if the battle is in a nul sec zone.

PC and FW battles should ALL count as nul sec battles.

This way we can all still do what ever we want to do but there will be a bonus or a penalty a RISK VS. REWARD.

In Eve online i have noticed that there are NPC caravans flying around why not make more of them with different LVL's of protection and use them as a way of transport that a merc can hire to fly him/her to the place they want to go and get the materials we would need to craft BPO/BPC items, use the marked etc.
They could even be used in a way where Eve pilots can still attack them and we as merc infantry and merc pilots could control cannons, missile launchers,drones etc. Onboard the NPC caravan.

WE NEED PVE TO.


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Leonid Tybalt DIOS EX. General Tso's Alliance 35	Posted - 2013.12.27 14:35:00 - [1] - Quote So I was thinking, low-sp players hardly find it funny to have to go up against whole squads of proto users (especially when they seem to focus primarily on killing noobs).But rather than restricting the use of proto gear (such a restriction wouldn't make sense) or nerfing proto suits and weapons, why not implement a system of tiered warpoint-rewards for kills? I.e rather than getting 50 warpoints everytime you kill someone regardless of what suit you're using and suit your victim used, the points awarded are based on the differences in the tech level of the suits involved. I.e a basic suit user killing another basic suit user gets 50 warpoints. Adv vs Adv gets 50 and so on. But if a basic user manages to kill an adv user he/she is awarded more than 50 warpoints (perhaps 60 or 70). While the adv user that manages to kill a basic user only gets 40 or 30 points per kill. And if the gap in tech level is even wider (let's say proto against basic or mlt) then the basic/mlt user gets a whopping 100 wp for the kill while the proto user only gets a measly 10. However, we still retain the current warpoint rewards for hacking objectives, providing healing, logistical support etc. This way we wouldn't have to mess around with the power levels of the different tiers of tech, nerfing or buffing anything nor would we have to restrict players from doing the proverbial "bringing a gun to a knifefight" by spawning In a protosuit and slaughter newer players, because the lower warpoint-rewards ultimately lead to lower isk rewards making it more difficult for excessive proto users to make a viable profit or recoup their losses unless they are going up against other proto users. It would also open up for more tactical matches where objectives are involved because players get more motivated to capture objectives and contribute towards victory for the team since the biggest rewards are shifted towards hacking and keeping objectives rather than run around looking for easy kills or engage in cowardly redline-sniping. A similar mechanic could also be mplemented in tanks vs infantry scenarios. Where the tanker gets less warpoints for killing infantry due to the obvious difference in combat capabilities. Lore-wise it would also make sense, because from a strategic and logistical perspective, getting good results by using as small means as possible to achieve it is something that any strategist would prefer (carpet bombing a town to the ground to kill a rebel group of 4 people in it works, but is hardly as cost efficient as sending in a small special ops team to sneak in and assassinate the targets)
Leonid Tybalt DIOS EX. General Tso's Alliance 38	Posted - 2013.12.27 15:47:00 - [2] - Quote Shadow Archeus wrote: Easy way to do this is have base kill worth 20 wp then have a bonus based on the total meta level of all gear on a suit So killing militia suits is worth less......I might be in favor of 20 wp plus 1 wp for each meta level...... Makes hunting proto suits much more profitable and makes might help balance wp issues Hmm, but wouldn't it be possible to mess around with a formula like that? Take a logi suit for instance, by filling your equipment slots with militia equipment you could artificially lower your own "killvalue" even if the rest of your modules are proto level, because those low tech level pieces of equipment lowers the tech level average of the entire fit. Or did you mean getting additional points for each module, weapon and equipment in a kill?
Leonid Tybalt DIOS EX. General Tso's Alliance 39	Posted - 2013.12.27 16:18:00 - [3] - Quote PADDEHATPIGEN wrote: This is a copy of a post I made yestoday. We all know about the vet proto stumping and risk vs reward problems but we also want to feel like gods in proto gear and kill newbees and also as a neewbee we want to get the OHH YEAH feeling of taking down a proto vet. We want players to be able to do it all and use it all and go where ever they want to be. The New Eden way=ƒÿÄ This is some ideas i have been thinking about. In Eve online we already have security zones, high, low and nul sec. Why not use them in Dust ? High sec is where you start as a neewb, but you can still go there as an adv or pro vet but as a adv or pro vet in high sec battles you get a penalty in WP/SP and ISK. For all the things you do, pro vets would get a high penalty, advs a lower one, newbs would get the usual WP/SP for killing other newbs and get a bonus for killing adv and a bigger bonus for pros when they kill them. In high sec it all should be at a normal rate from somewhere between 0-10 mill. SP. All above 10 mill. SP. gets a penalty in WP/SP and ISK rewards. Low sec is where you want to go as soon as get to use advanced gear and weapons or from 10-20 mill. SP. If you want normal rate of WP/SP and ISK rewards even for killing a newb who is trying his/her luck or if you as a newb want a bonus for killing, but if you have more then 20 mill. SP. You still get a penalty in WP/SP and ISK rewards. Nul sec is where the pro vets from 20 mill. SP. Want to be if they want a normal rate of WP/SP and ISK rewards but newbs and advs can still go there if they want to try there luck and get some bonuses for killing. A newb should get 25% bonus for an adv kill and 50% for a pro kill no matter where the battle is. An adv should get 25% bonus for a pro kill no matter where the battle is and a 25% penalty for a newb kill but only if the battle is in a high sec zone, if it's in low/nul sec it's still at a normal rate. Pros should get a 25% penalty for an adv kill and 50% penalty for a newb kill if the battle is in a high or low sec zone, but still get the normal rate if the battle is in a nul sec zone. PC and FW battles should ALL count as nul sec battles. This way we can all still do what ever we want to do but there will be a bonus or a penalty a RISK VS. REWARD. In Eve online i have noticed that there are NPC caravans flying around why not make more of them with different LVL's of protection and use them as a way of transport that a merc can hire to fly him/her to the place they want to go and get the materials we would need to craft BPO/BPC items, use the marked etc. They could even be used in a way where Eve pilots can still attack them and we as merc infantry and merc pilots could control cannons, missile launchers,drones etc. Onboard the NPC caravan. WE NEED PVE TO. I think you would be forced to revise the lore if you did that though. The lore states that combat in dust is possible due to a cybernetic implant that allows an instant transfer of consciousness even at the moment of death. In essence, Mercs in dust are "jump cloning" constantly. Suddenly being forced to "travel" to warzones via NPC ship caravans, while we previously just transfered our consciousness to a clone on the battlezone where the mission is taking place would sort of go against the lore as written. I also feel that worrying about security rating is a problem for eve pilots and not something dust mercs should need to care about. It's the job of the eve pilots to deliver the clone packs, us mercs just "man" the clones. That said, there are ways for PVE in dust. In fact, ccp even seems to have the idea sketched down because the intro movie mentions hunting rogue drone infestations (there's even sections in the movie where drones are shown) so some PVE-elements seems to have been planned at least. But there are more ways to implement PVE elements in dust. On the top of my head I'd like to see assassination missions that NPC corps issue against NPCs of rival NPC corps (I.e go to space station x, fight your way through automated security systems and guards of target y, then kill target y). Another thing I'd really like to see in dust are boarding actions in space battles. (this could be implemented both in PvP and PvE) Imagine being shot out of a friendly ships torpedo-tube in a boarding torpedo, flying towards an enemy ship and smashing through it's hull while explosive bolts blow away the nose of the torpedo unloading a squad of Dust clones with a mission to plant remote explosives on vital internal components of the enemy vessel (shield emitter arrays, plasma reactor, perhaps even to assasinate the helpless pilot in his pod!), but of course being opposed by the ships internal security systems (or in bigger vessels: security personel) Imagine all this happening in real time, where eve pilots can witness how suddenly the shields of a Carrier or Titan just drops or a huge chunk of their armor drops or the ship suddenly stops firing and is listed as "pilotless" because a few brave dust clones fought their way to the bridge and put a bullet in the head of the pilot, in mere minutes fought their way to the objective in a ship and managed to destroy it. These are things I'd like to see aside from ground combat (both for PvE and PvP purposes)
Leonid Tybalt DIOS EX. General Tso's Alliance 41	Posted - 2013.12.27 17:08:00 - [4] - Quote But of course this thread isn't really about possible PvE, but about reducing proto-stomping. S+Ñ let's get back to topic.
Leonid Tybalt DIOS EX. General Tso's Alliance 41	Posted - 2013.12.27 17:22:00 - [5] - Quote Paran Tadec wrote: No. Tiericide of gear is the answer. Huh?