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Sinboto Simmons SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 3496	Posted - 2013.12.27 07:39:00 - [1] - Quote Only then can AV and armor be balanced, right now we have Proto AV being balanced to align with STD vehicles, if we had Proto/Advanced vehicles they could be balanced more soundly with their respective AV and we'd have less problems taking out vehicles on a lower level than our Ainti Armor gear. Sinboto - The True Blood Minja Forum Warrior level 3 STB-Infantry (Demolition)
Ghost Kaisar Titans of Phoenix 1348	Posted - 2013.12.27 07:44:00 - [2] - Quote Sinboto Simmons wrote: Proto AV being balanced to align with STD vehicles HA. If Proto AV is where it's gonna stay, then I will leave dust the moment ADV and PRO Tanks come out. Minmatar Faction Warfare: Let's get Organized
ladwar Death by Disassociation Zero-Day 1933	Posted - 2013.12.27 07:44:00 - [3] - Quote meh... MLT tank spam is easy to counter, more so when they only bring in one type. just got done with a match where i killed 4 and fellow tanker using rails killed a few as well and it isn't that hard to kill MLT tanks. STD tanks have more flexibility so im happy with chasing the good ones away and killing the bad ones with infantry av. Level 2 Forum Warrior, retired vet. I shall smite Thy Trolls with numbers and truth not looking for a corp, don't ask.
Snagman 313 Carbon 7 CRONOS. 213	Posted - 2013.12.27 08:20:00 - [4] - Quote Sinboto Simmons wrote: Only then can AV and armor be balanced, right now we have Proto AV being balanced to align with STD vehicles, if we had Proto/Advanced vehicles they could be balanced more soundly with their respective AV and we'd have less problems taking out vehicles on a lower level than our Ainti Armor gear. Agreed, new AV players don't stand much of a chance unless they are against a new MLT HAV pilot and if you remember Surya's and Sagaris's think of what they could be like now. When they reintroduce the high end vehicles they'll need to buff the AV again, if they don't well let's just see what happens, most of the closed Beta guys remember the New Eden Missile tank crisis....... We could do without a repeat of that. Closed Beta AV veteran I drink because I play Dust
Cat Merc Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 5082	Posted - 2013.12.27 08:38:00 - [5] - Quote If ADV and PRO tanks come out, it will be a huge step back in Dust's design. Tiercide is a must, and vehicles were already tiercided pre 1.7. Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives. Tuna > Tacos
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 11438	Posted - 2013.12.27 08:49:00 - [6] - Quote No. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Rail and Combat Rifle =// Unlocked
Snagman 313 Carbon 7 CRONOS. 213	Posted - 2013.12.27 09:02:00 - [7] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: No. Why not? I'm quite interested in why there is so much angst against the Tankers getting some Proto gear in line with the rest of us. I will admit the old Proto tanks were nigh on unkillable but it was a great challenge for me and I used to get a lot out of duelling tanks. Closed Beta AV veteran I drink because I play Dust
Tech Ohm Eaven L.O.T.I.S. D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 1014	Posted - 2013.12.27 09:49:00 - [8] - Quote Snagman 313 wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: No. Why not? I'm quite interested in why there is so much angst against the Tankers getting some Proto gear in line with the rest of us. I will admit the old Proto tanks were nigh on unkillable but it was a great challenge for me and I used to get a lot out of duelling tanks. Just what Dust 514 needs! Unkillable tanks going 80 and 0! Unkillable tanks going 120 and 0 is just what Dust 514 needs ??? Yeah! watch the player base REDUCE to LESS than 1000 peak player counts.........lol. LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! goes back to Tales of Graces . Abandon Ship!, Abandon Ship!! Jumps into escape pod! Selected destination Planet PS4.
Lorhak Gannarsein 903	Posted - 2013.12.27 09:53:00 - [9] - Quote We need some proto equivalent tanks, insofar as durability is concerned. Not necessarily a direct improvement (and in fact I'm in agreement that that would be bad). PRO tanker and proud. Lentarr Legionary.
Broonfondle Majikthies Seykal Expeditionary Group Minmatar Republic 626	Posted - 2013.12.27 09:59:00 - [10] - Quote I'd like to see the rest of the racial vehicles first. "...where Bylothgar the Ill-postured was made King of the People With No Name But Decent Footwear"
lordjanuz Norwegian Dust514 Corporation Top Men. 254	Posted - 2013.12.27 10:31:00 - [11] - Quote Broonfondle Majikthies wrote: I'd like to see the rest of the racial vehicles first. +1 Yes
darkiller240 K-A-O-S theory 218	Posted - 2013.12.27 10:35:00 - [12] - Quote Tech Ohm Eaven wrote: Snagman 313 wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: No. Why not? I'm quite interested in why there is so much angst against the Tankers getting some Proto gear in line with the rest of us. I will admit the old Proto tanks were nigh on unkillable but it was a great challenge for me and I used to get a lot out of duelling tanks. Just what Dust 514 needs! Unkillable tanks going 80 and 0! Unkillable tanks going 120 and 0 is just what Dust 514 needs ??? Yeah! watch the player base REDUCE to LESS than 1000 peak player counts.........lol. LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! goes back to Tales of Graces . Mayby you dont get it AV WILL GET BUFFED IF PROTO VEHICLES COME is it really so hard to understand , and pro will increase ballance "Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." - Albert Einstein
Snagman 313 Carbon 7 CRONOS. 213	Posted - 2013.12.27 12:07:00 - [13] - Quote lordjanuz wrote: Broonfondle Majikthies wrote: I'd like to see the rest of the racial vehicles first. +1 Yes Very good point +1 Also I'd like to see the rest of the Racial gear and have the LP store fleshed out to include the FG!!! Closed Beta AV veteran I drink because I play Dust
Yoma Carrim Situation Normal all fraked up 202	Posted - 2013.12.27 12:18:00 - [14] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: No. This I'm sorry bit the current tier system with Dropsuits would only make vehicles more hard to balance What we do need is the specializations back and balance around them (I want a Chakram damn-it) When you turn a corner and find the entire enemy team.Oh Heck Logi, Tanker, Heavy
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 11442	Posted - 2013.12.27 12:18:00 - [15] - Quote I have said it before and I will say it again. We need to get rid of the basic advanced and proto suit concept and go with only standard and militia as vehicles have. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Rail and Combat Rifle =// Unlocked
Takahiro Kashuken Red Star. EoN. 2038	Posted - 2013.12.27 13:14:00 - [16] - Quote CPM: No - While he stands in his adv/proto suit with proto AV and proto mods loldouble standards I notice when we still had basic against stupidly powerful proto AV (pre 1.7) the infantry/CPM never wanted to remove proto AV to make it fair and balanced Frankly we do need adv/proto vehicles We have adv/proto turrets and mods so the vehicle hulls are the only things which are missing Intelligence is OP
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 11442	Posted - 2013.12.27 13:22:00 - [17] - Quote Takahiro Kashuken wrote: CPM: No - While he stands in his adv/proto suit with proto AV and proto mods loldouble standards I notice when we still had basic against stupidly powerful proto AV (pre 1.7) the infantry/CPM never wanted to remove proto AV to make it fair and balanced Frankly we do need adv/proto vehicles We have adv/proto turrets and mods so the vehicle hulls are the only things which are missing LOL HAHAHAHAHAHAA ... I'm sorry just one quick question do you even pay attention? CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Rail and Combat Rifle =// Unlocked
Yoma Carrim Situation Normal all fraked up 202	Posted - 2013.12.27 13:25:00 - [18] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: CPM: No - While he stands in his adv/proto suit with proto AV and proto mods loldouble standards I notice when we still had basic against stupidly powerful proto AV (pre 1.7) the infantry/CPM never wanted to remove proto AV to make it fair and balanced Frankly we do need adv/proto vehicles We have adv/proto turrets and mods so the vehicle hulls are the only things which are missing LOL HAHAHAHAHAHAA ... I'm sorry just one quick question do you even pay attention? Wolf play nice When you turn a corner and find the entire enemy team.Oh Heck Logi, Tanker, Heavy
Ryder Azorria Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 762	Posted - 2013.12.27 13:28:00 - [19] - Quote Takahiro Kashuken wrote: CPM: No - While he stands in his adv/proto suit with proto AV and proto mods loldouble standards I notice when we still had basic against stupidly powerful proto AV (pre 1.7) the infantry/CPM never wanted to remove proto AV to make it fair and balanced Frankly we do need adv/proto vehicles We have adv/proto turrets and mods so the vehicle hulls are the only things which are missing What you're smoking, can I haz? Proto stomping tanks will literally be the death of the game.
Takahiro Kashuken Red Star. EoN. 2038	Posted - 2013.12.27 13:36:00 - [20] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: CPM: No - While he stands in his adv/proto suit with proto AV and proto mods loldouble standards I notice when we still had basic against stupidly powerful proto AV (pre 1.7) the infantry/CPM never wanted to remove proto AV to make it fair and balanced Frankly we do need adv/proto vehicles We have adv/proto turrets and mods so the vehicle hulls are the only things which are missing LOL HAHAHAHAHAHAA ... I'm sorry just one quick question do you even pay attention? To your double standards? its obvious I didnt see you protest against adv/proto AV for tha past 6months when it was uber powerful against all our basic mods and hulls Intelligence is OP
Takahiro Kashuken Red Star. EoN. 2038	Posted - 2013.12.27 13:38:00 - [21] - Quote Ryder Azorria wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: CPM: No - While he stands in his adv/proto suit with proto AV and proto mods loldouble standards I notice when we still had basic against stupidly powerful proto AV (pre 1.7) the infantry/CPM never wanted to remove proto AV to make it fair and balanced Frankly we do need adv/proto vehicles We have adv/proto turrets and mods so the vehicle hulls are the only things which are missing What you're smoking, can I haz? Proto stomping tanks will literally be the death of the game. No it wont Because then proto AV would actually get a buff to be on par with proto vehicles since the vehicles would get a CPU/PG buff and more slots for more tank and stuff Then again proto AV pre 1.7 killed the tanking game for all but a handful of pilots Intelligence is OP
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 11442	Posted - 2013.12.27 13:45:00 - [22] - Quote Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: CPM: No - While he stands in his adv/proto suit with proto AV and proto mods loldouble standards I notice when we still had basic against stupidly powerful proto AV (pre 1.7) the infantry/CPM never wanted to remove proto AV to make it fair and balanced Frankly we do need adv/proto vehicles We have adv/proto turrets and mods so the vehicle hulls are the only things which are missing LOL HAHAHAHAHAHAA ... I'm sorry just one quick question do you even pay attention? To your double standards? its obvious I didnt see you protest against adv/proto AV for tha past 6months when it was uber powerful against all our basic mods and hulls I want you to guess how many prototype suits I have access to skill wise normally? How many prototype suits have players killed of mine. How many prototype suits people have seen me in? Also I have called for adjustments on some AV. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Rail and Combat Rifle =// Unlocked
Leonid Tybalt DIOS EX. General Tso's Alliance 32	Posted - 2013.12.27 13:45:00 - [23] - Quote Lorhak Gannarsein wrote: We need some proto equivalent tanks, insofar as durability is concerned. Not necessarily a direct improvement (and in t I'm in agreement that that would be bad). No, no we don't (this coming from a tanker). If you don't think your tank is durable enough, then your just fitting it wrong. How many infantry and vehicles with based av-weapons do you think that your tank should be able to handle before being blown up? The fact that one guy with a swarm launcher or forge gun is unlikely to kill you when your shields and armor are full is reasonable. But if durability is to be increased then we're gonna have a situation where not even 3-4 infantry with av-weapons have a chance to destroy a tank even if they cooperate. That would be a bad development for the game. The role of a tank is to be bulletproof against small arms. You're not supposed to be able to shrug off sustained fire from anti-tank weapons. Thats what evasive driving is supposed to be your primary defense.
Alena Ventrallis The Neutral Zone 380	Posted - 2013.12.27 13:46:00 - [24] - Quote Tiericide would be better.
Lorhak Gannarsein 906	Posted - 2013.12.27 14:46:00 - [25] - Quote Leonid Tybalt wrote: Lorhak Gannarsein wrote: We need some proto equivalent tanks, insofar as durability is concerned. Not necessarily a direct improvement (and in t I'm in agreement that that would be bad). No, no we don't (this coming from a tanker). If you don't think your tank is durable enough, then your just fitting it wrong. How many infantry and vehicles with based av-weapons do you think that your tank should be able to handle before being blown up? The fact that one guy with a swarm launcher or forge gun is unlikely to kill you when your shields and armor are full is reasonable. But if durability is to be increased then we're gonna have a situation where not even 3-4 infantry with av-weapons have a chance to destroy a tank even if they cooperate. That would be a bad development for the game. The role of a tank is to be bulletproof against small arms. You're not supposed to be able to shrug off sustained fire from anti-tank weapons. Thats what evasive driving is supposed to be your primary defense. I think you misunderstand my point; I am of the opinion that current AV is too weak to fulfil its goal. I would argue that a more durable HAV, like the old Surya or Sagaris (regarding only their greater durability and not their improved damage potential) would be an excellent balancing point for top-tier AV. Such an HAV would have to have significant drawbacks, to things like movement, particularly, considering that this is one of the problems facing current AV. Balancing top tier AV against a higher point (and perhaps increasing its price at the same time) would allow AVers to rapidly eliminate low level HAVs in the way that they want, while still giving recourse to more experienced pilots looking for a more effective vehicle. I'd say that the desired level of balance would be something like what we have now between top level AV and HAVs, where the imbalance is in low level HAVs, in their almost identical durability, and low level AV, because really, who uses STD AV for anything at all? In no way am I saying that 'it should take three AV to kill me' or that 'my top tier fitted Gunnlogi is (still) UP'. I'd like something like a siege module for a class of HAVs, something that makes it nigh indestructible for a period of time, and also prevents movement. The sort of thing it would need to take multiple AVers, if not HAVS to destroy. I'd like to see Enforcers being the AV monsters they should have been (and would have been, had there been a damage bonus to rails ). I don't want an easily accessible win button, like MLT HAVs tend to be at the moment, and I feel like a more durable HAV would be a good place to balance from. PRO tanker and proud. Lentarr Legionary.
Reav Hannari Red Rock Outriders 2275	Posted - 2013.12.27 14:56:00 - [26] - Quote Other than introductory militia vehicles I like how the vehicles don't have tiers but instead introduce specialized models. As a dropship pilot I can choose between a regular dropship emphasizing defense over offense and agility and the assault models which emphasize offense and agility over defense. Both have their place. Give us specialized variants and forget the tiers. // Spike Lieutenant // Matari Logistics / Scout / Pilot // @ReesNoturana
Hugin-Frey Z International 2	Posted - 2013.12.27 15:11:00 - [27] - Quote I doubt this game can have everything at once.... Everyone goes towards what works best so it can be a tank game with a few infantry or a infantry game with a few tanks. I don't really enjoy driving tanks and it is boring to play infantry vs invincible tanks so if it becomes Tanks 514 I'll take a break from it. Also, I'm sure that will draw new players into the game; getting proto-tank stomped. Not fun.
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 2643	Posted - 2013.12.27 15:20:00 - [28] - Quote Takahiro Kashuken wrote: CPM: No - While he stands in his adv/proto suit with proto AV and proto mods loldouble standards I notice when we still had basic against stupidly powerful proto AV (pre 1.7) the infantry/CPM never wanted to remove proto AV to make it fair and balanced Frankly we do need adv/proto vehicles We have adv/proto turrets and mods so the vehicle hulls are the only things which are missing Stupid person is stupid. You had STD hulls going up against PRO AV. But that STD hulls could have Complex modules which is Tier III, making it technically PRO. Your vehicles being tiericided does not make it unbalanced. On another note Tankahiro, I think it would be best for you to refrain from calling others out on double standards. Talk about calling the Kettle black. We finally deployed in the MinFW Match! \o/
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 2643	Posted - 2013.12.27 15:25:00 - [29] - Quote Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Ryder Azorria wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: CPM: No - While he stands in his adv/proto suit with proto AV and proto mods loldouble standards I notice when we still had basic against stupidly powerful proto AV (pre 1.7) the infantry/CPM never wanted to remove proto AV to make it fair and balanced Frankly we do need adv/proto vehicles We have adv/proto turrets and mods so the vehicle hulls are the only things which are missing What you're smoking, can I haz? Proto stomping tanks will literally be the death of the game. No it wont Because then proto AV would actually get a buff to be on par with proto vehicles since the vehicles would get a CPU/PG buff and more slots for more tank and stuff Then again proto AV pre 1.7 killed the tanking game for all but a handful of pilots Wasn't that the point? Only the strongest and most skilled pilots could survive the most skilled and strongest AV. Strongest Pilot =/= Strongest AV Weaker Pilot < Strongest AV Strongest Pilot > Weaker AV. We finally deployed in the MinFW Match! \o/
NAV HIV The Generals General Tso's Alliance 666	Posted - 2013.12.27 15:51:00 - [30] - Quote Balance of AV vs tank right now: 3 damage mods on a Wyrkomi Swarm + 3 lai dai < Soma forget about a madrugar and gunlogi. Even though gunlogi is easier to take out with flux + Av combo. But Soma and Maddy lolBalance.
knight of 6 SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 908	Posted - 2013.12.27 15:58:00 - [31] - Quote Ghost Kaisar wrote: Sinboto Simmons wrote: Proto AV being balanced to align with STD vehicles HA. If Proto AV is where it's gonna stay, then I will leave dust the moment ADV and PRO Tanks come out. why would it stay where it is? that wouldn't make any sense at all. "God favors the side with the best artillery" ~ Napoleon Ko6, scout, tanker. CLOSED BETA VET
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 2645	Posted - 2013.12.27 16:00:00 - [32] - Quote knight of 6 wrote: Ghost Kaisar wrote: Sinboto Simmons wrote: Proto AV being balanced to align with STD vehicles HA. If Proto AV is where it's gonna stay, then I will leave dust the moment ADV and PRO Tanks come out. why would it stay where it is? that wouldn't make any sense at all. Because CCP We finally deployed in the MinFW Match! \o/
NAV HIV The Generals General Tso's Alliance 666	Posted - 2013.12.27 16:01:00 - [33] - Quote Atiim wrote: knight of 6 wrote: Ghost Kaisar wrote: Sinboto Simmons wrote: Proto AV being balanced to align with STD vehicles HA. If Proto AV is where it's gonna stay, then I will leave dust the moment ADV and PRO Tanks come out. why would it stay where it is? that wouldn't make any sense at all. Because CCP That's why ^
knight of 6 SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 908	Posted - 2013.12.27 16:08:00 - [34] - Quote Atiim wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Ryder Azorria wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: CPM: No - While he stands in his adv/proto suit with proto AV and proto mods loldouble standards I notice when we still had basic against stupidly powerful proto AV (pre 1.7) the infantry/CPM never wanted to remove proto AV to make it fair and balanced Frankly we do need adv/proto vehicles We have adv/proto turrets and mods so the vehicle hulls are the only things which are missing What you're smoking, can I haz? Proto stomping tanks will literally be the death of the game. No it wont Because then proto AV would actually get a buff to be on par with proto vehicles since the vehicles would get a CPU/PG buff and more slots for more tank and stuff Then again proto AV pre 1.7 killed the tanking game for all but a handful of pilots Wasn't that the point? Only the strongest and most skilled pilots could survive the most skilled and strongest AV. Strongest Pilot =/= Strongest AV Weaker Pilot < Strongest AV Strongest Pilot > Weaker AV. no, tanking wasn't profitable, in a game with an economy everything that requires skill needs to have the ability to turn a profit. look at remote armor rep and shield boosters, they are arguably the most over powered items ever put in the game. in chromo I had a logi lav buddy with a shield booster that he put on my armor tank, I protected him and was literally indestructible. all he got was guardian points remote armor reps and shield boosters don't give triage points so unless i was taking fire he didn't get any points. you have never heard anyone complain about OP remote reps, I've only ever got them once. why? because they were never profitable. "God favors the side with the best artillery" ~ Napoleon Ko6, scout, tanker. CLOSED BETA VET
Ghost Kaisar Titans of Phoenix 1368	Posted - 2013.12.27 17:04:00 - [35] - Quote Tech Ohm Eaven wrote: goes back to Tales of Graces . Sorry to thread jack but..... How is that game? I've heard the combat is a lot better than Xillia, but I am still on the fence as to whether I should buy that or Symphonia Chronicles next year. In short, does it live up to it's massive hype? Minmatar Faction Warfare: Let's get Organized
Ghost Kaisar Titans of Phoenix 1368	Posted - 2013.12.27 17:06:00 - [36] - Quote NAV HIV wrote: Atiim wrote: knight of 6 wrote: Ghost Kaisar wrote: Sinboto Simmons wrote: Proto AV being balanced to align with STD vehicles HA. If Proto AV is where it's gonna stay, then I will leave dust the moment ADV and PRO Tanks come out. why would it stay where it is? that wouldn't make any sense at all. Because CCP That's why ^ EXACTLY Minmatar Faction Warfare: Let's get Organized
Jaysyn Larrisen OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 585	Posted - 2013.12.27 17:17:00 - [37] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: If ADV and PRO tanks come out, it will be a huge step back in Dust's design. Tiercide is a must, and vehicles were already tiercided pre 1.7. I don't often agree with Cat Merc, but when I do...it's about tiericide. I like the idea behind Sinboto's OP and not too long ago I would of been all about the higher tiered vehicles. I've shifted my views and now that I understand how they did this in EVE I think this is the way to go. The heart of it is needing to figure out if AV is where it needs to be or more seriously if tanking is where it needs to be. My thought if there is no tiericide option is that you shouldn't get access to standard (currently militia level) tanks until you've skilled into at LEAST level 4 vehicle operation. The ISK cost of tanks needs to noticeably increase as well.

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