DUST Search - Tanks are NOT the best at everything

Piraten Hovnoret wrote:

I respectfully disagree with CCP and your statement.

I don't c the problem with that new players that haven't done some grinding can't play with the biggest guns of the batt.
I love the fact that in this game you need to have a social network to be really successful. If it wasn't for this fact this game would be as any other "get everything from the start shooter".

As far as "millionaire corp buddy to fund their tanking hobby." Wy can't it be just that? That would actually make sence, make tankes powerful even more then today but to found them on a single player life style should be BLODEY hard.

This game needs to move more towards corp oriented game play any way. Sadly al the "fixes" or whatever you want to call it moves the game slowly away from corp orientated game play.

Wy can't CCP take that brilliant EVE online vision and implement it in dust?
Let dust players (corps) fight over resources on the planets, have mining fields etc to fight over or protect while you are mining it.

One more thing so many issues in this game would be solved of they just let us play on the hole god dam maps. If you take a dropship out and fly high you can c that al this maps are sockets next to one and other. I don't care if its not 100% ready for it, just DO IT.

This game has the potential to be epic sadly I with great pain in my hart i am starting to loose faith that it will ever become just that.


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Absoliav Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 99	Posted - 2013.12.25 05:18:00 - [1] - Quote I disagree with you, four tanks on one team will easily put down any attempt of AV without a tanks to counteract them, which might not even work if one of the tanks have a rail, the rail tank will stop any RDV from making a drop off.
Absoliav Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 108	Posted - 2013.12.25 05:57:00 - [2] - Quote Flix Keptick wrote: Absoliav wrote: I disagree with you, four tanks on one team will easily put down any attempt of AV without a tanks to counteract them, which might not even work if one of the tanks have a rail, the rail tank will stop any RDV from making a drop off. My post was aimed at a single tank's situation. Asset spam is an entirely different problem (just like sniper spam, core nade spam, equipment spam, lav spam and so on... Though it is kind of you to point out that you post is set for single tank encounters, you failed to mentioned this in your OP, but now that I'm aware of your viewpoint, I still disagree, a tank is far more durable than a single soldier, a tank is faster than a single soldier, a tanks gun can kill more than a single soldier, a tank can make it's self harder to kill if it is in danger, tanks can heal easily on their own without ever having to stop for a logi. Granted, a highly skilled player can achieve the same results, but almost any player with basic tank skills and common sense can achieve this without much experience tanking, tanks were intended to be a force multiplier, now they are the force and infantry is the multiplier. They can preform all the task of all three dropsuits, the only things they can't do is capture points and res teammates, there is a reason why we are having such a huge influx of tanks, it's cause they have become too easy to use, I don't believe buffing AV or nerfing tanks will solve this problem, the way it stands now, the only true infiriorty tanks suffer from is the inability to call OBs, but that isn't really much of an issue since the pilot can simply exit the vehicle and take a moment to call one.
Absoliav Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 108	Posted - 2013.12.25 06:40:00 - [3] - Quote Flix Keptick wrote: They can preform all the task of all three dropsuits, the only things they can't do is capture points and res teammates, there is a reason why we are having such a huge influx of tanks, it's cause they have become too easy to use, I don't believe buffing AV or nerfing tanks will solve this problem, the way it stands now, the only true infiriorty tanks suffer from is the inability to call OBs, but that isn't really much of an issue since the pilot can simply exit the vehicle and take a moment to call one. Mlt tanks are the problem, I paid 8 mil sp to use my tanks effectively (only specialized in one turret) while mlt take 0sp to be almost as effrctive I think that it will sort itself out ounce more ppl dedicate themselves as tank destroying tanks like I did. It's a great source of WP and isk and greatly helps my team.[/quote] The MLTs are only part of the issue at hand, an other part of the issue is the ineffectiveness of infantry AV as a whole. MLTs make skilling into tanks pointless for those who don't take it seriously, which is a similar problem Heavies have with Sentinals and Commandos, but what's worse is that using an MLT can give a player comparable results to using a STD with far fewer requirements, this only devalues tank skilling further. As for AV, it's designed to kill vehicles, which it can, there's no doubting that, but when it comes to tanks it is a different story, LAVs use speed and terrain to keep them alive, so drivers skills play heavily on his survivability, dropships are always in the danger-zone, so the pilot is always stressed, constantly trying to stay alive, having to be aware of their surroundings is key to staying alive from the threat of AV, HAVs have none of these issues with AV. HAVs can counter ever possible AV threat easily so long as the pilot has some knowledge of what to do, if he notice he's being hit with AV, hardeners, if he's low on health, fuel injectors and wait to rep to full health, see a swarm, shoot the launcher, now normally these aren't really a problem alone, but combined they are just plan unbalanced, there is no difference to tank survival tactics, the same methods I've mentioned above will work for any tank fit cause every tank can preforms the same with only minor differences depending on the choice of weapon, this is a clear sign of the ineffectiveness of AV againts HAVs, and again only makes skilling into tanks less appealing for new tankers since four MLT tanks are comparable to four STDs in most scenarios. My opinion on this is simple, tanks should not be this easy to achieve greatness on the battlefield as they are now, it just devalues all the great balance changes that 1.7 gave to the issues we had with vehicles.
Absoliav Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 108	Posted - 2013.12.25 07:08:00 - [4] - Quote Piraten Hovnoret wrote: And you don't c the problem with your tank only costing 500 000? The numbers should be something like this Militia tanks ( unfitted ) 400 000 Standard ( unfitted ) 800 000 Advanced ( unfitted) 1 600 000 Proto ( unfitted) 3 200 000 On top of that modules should cost a hell of a lot more also Tanks should be powerful as F but expensive as F also Your pricing model is too close to what thing we're like in closed beta, the reason the prices are the way they are now is cause, no one could afford to use tanks before, which means the whole idea of having MLT is pointless if no one can afford it, this also bars off tanking from new players who don't have a millionaire corp buddy to fund their tanking hobby. CCP has made it very clear that ISK price is a poor design point for game balance, which is why prices have gone down for everything in Dust compared to older builds, CCP's new design point is focused on SP value for balance results on gear and vehicles, only problem is, SP values have been blurred when it comes to HAVs, MLTs and STDs preformence are far too similar to make a difference, and since we don't have ADVs or PROs, we have no proper balance for AV versus HAVs, which only further devalues SP investment in tanks. Your not going to fix HAVs by making them more expensive, your just going to make tank steamrolling harder to counter by walling off the most effective counter to it, which is of course tanks.
Absoliav Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 108	Posted - 2013.12.25 07:56:00 - [5] - Quote Piraten Hovnoret wrote: I respectfully disagree with CCP and your statement. I don't c the problem with that new players that haven't done some grinding can't play with the biggest guns of the batt. I love the fact that in this game you need to have a social network to be really successful. If it wasn't for this fact this game would be as any other "get everything from the start shooter". As far as "millionaire corp buddy to fund their tanking hobby." Wy can't it be just that? That would actually make sence, make tankes powerful even more then today but to found them on a single player life style should be BLODEY hard. This game needs to move more towards corp oriented game play any way. Sadly al the "fixes" or whatever you want to call it moves the game slowly away from corp orientated game play. Wy can't CCP take that brilliant EVE online vision and implement it in dust? Let dust players (corps) fight over resources on the planets, have mining fields etc to fight over or protect while you are mining it. One more thing so many issues in this game would be solved of they just let us play on the hole god dam maps. If you take a dropship out and fly high you can c that al this maps are sockets next to one and other. I don't care if its not 100% ready for it, just DO IT. This game has the potential to be epic sadly I with great pain in my hart i am starting to loose faith that it will ever become just that. I like your vision for this game, I'm sure you'd fit very well in EVE, but sadly the price solution to tanks in Dust will not fix the problems with tanks, in EVE a Titan class ship costs a fortune, but it doesn't take another Titan to kill one, nor does it cost anywhere near as much skill and time to put one down, cause though Titans are great and powerful, they aren't "that" powerful, this is what makes them balanced in a game where players have almost full control of what goes on in the game. Dust isn't at that point where we can have that kind of game structure going on, and we still have a long way to go.