DUST Search - a big **** you to core upgrades

I-Shayz-I wrote:

I have 26 million sp and I only recently maxed circuitry, engineering, and core upgrades.

Trust me, level 5 is not worth it until late game, because you could be spending your sp on way better things. Personally I'd look for skills that reduce cpu/pg cost of weapons or items. For instance the nanocircuitry skill gives you an invisible bonus of 5% cpu reduction per level.

If you use weapons like the scrambler rifle, skilling into proficiency and then fitting op will help drastically. The light weapon skill is also another good one to take to level 4 as it reduces cpu on all light weapons.

I mean, I still don't even have level 5 armor or shields yet. The extra 5% bonus just doesn't exactly mean a lot to me for the sp cost...we're talking like another 4 shields on my logi, that's barely anything. The only reason I have them past level 1 is because I occasionally run a heavy suit...and each of those upgrades gives me an additional 25 shield/armor, which is worthwhile.

Try changing things around a bit too. If you use armor plates, going from enhanced to basic only sacrifices like 30ish armor to free up an additional 5 pg. Same thing goes for complex shield extenders and damage mods, which eat up your fitting space. Also, combos like a basic weapon + complex damage mod is more effective isk-wise than just using a prototype weapon.

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CrotchGrab 360 688	Posted - 2013.12.24 13:53:00 - [1] - Quote core upgrades is the worst skill ever worst SP sink ever. my PG didn't even go up by ONE, now I have to save up another 500K to get engineering 5. if I didn't waste the SP I would only be 300K away... Honestly WHAT IS THE POINT of having a skill which doesn't even increase your PG BY ONE. My base PG is 45. that's 0.45 at 1%, so 2 upgrades of the skill, which can be 500k SP!!! won't even get you ONE PG. CCP, change it!!! I've been waiting ******* ages for my suit, ADV minmatar, exo-5, 3x complex damage mod, 2x enhanced kin cat, it took me forever to save up 800K passive SP, only to get shat on by. The guy has 8-9M SP, he's been passive for over a month now, and now has to be passive for another month... just for ONE PG!! core upgrades.......
Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution 6667	Posted - 2013.12.24 13:53:00 - [2] - Quote Grind514. Having started an alt, I'm also getting irritated by these useless pre-requisites that do nothing but waste time, ISK, and SP. Level 6 Forum Warrior Lenin of the glorious armoured revolution Gallente FW - 'Turalyon'
CrotchGrab 360 688	Posted - 2013.12.24 13:55:00 - [3] - Quote Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Grind514. Having started an alt, I'm also getting irritated by these useless pre-requisites that do nothing but waste time, ISK, and SP. it does my head in. 9M SP and I don't even have the suit I want. ADV Min Assault EXO-5 3x complex damage mod 2x enhanced kin cat sprint speed 9.06M only about 300HP but with prof 5 and 3 complex damage mods the thing packs a serious punch. I've passived it for a month now and it's getting boring not being able to use the dropsuit fitting which I want. 500k SP, seriously.
I-Shayz-I I-----I 1730	Posted - 2013.12.24 14:07:00 - [4] - Quote I have 26 million sp and I only recently maxed circuitry, engineering, and core upgrades. Trust me, level 5 is not worth it until late game, because you could be spending your sp on way better things. Personally I'd look for skills that reduce cpu/pg cost of weapons or items. For instance the nanocircuitry skill gives you an invisible bonus of 5% cpu reduction per level. If you use weapons like the scrambler rifle, skilling into proficiency and then fitting op will help drastically. The light weapon skill is also another good one to take to level 4 as it reduces cpu on all light weapons. I mean, I still don't even have level 5 armor or shields yet. The extra 5% bonus just doesn't exactly mean a lot to me for the sp cost...we're talking like another 4 shields on my logi, that's barely anything. The only reason I have them past level 1 is because I occasionally run a heavy suit...and each of those upgrades gives me an additional 25 shield/armor, which is worthwhile. Links: List of Most Important Threads I make logistics videos!
Daxxis KANNAH Distinct Covert Initiative 552	Posted - 2013.12.24 14:08:00 - [5] - Quote Core upgrades 4 Engineering 3 Electronics 4 And I run a Minny Scout with a complex kin cat - PG is hardly an issue for me. Then again - Combat rifle Basic SMG If you really need it then use the PG mod but I cant see the issue. Even when I ran the ScR I just used other weapons and mods to compliment the fit and stay in the envelope. Also remember to do the calculation (or ask someone on here) to figure out what benefit you will get from the next level and do the lower SP one that will give the desired result. eg. Optimization level 1 on your fave weapon vs Core Lv 5 or Engineering 5 Most of the time Optimization skills may not be the way to go but if you are already on Proficiency 4, then spending little can save you much time. Always try to be an SP miser. Its your time you really are saving. All that said, the grind is ridiculous. I dont even play my alt, I still play my main even if capped. On that we do agree.
Takahiro Kashuken Red Star. EoN. 2028	Posted - 2013.12.24 14:11:00 - [6] - Quote STFU Vehicle pilots dont even get any PG/CPU % increase with the skills We dont even get 5% per level to shield/armor HP, they took away them skills from us Infantry get 4 very useful skills that we dont have anymore Intelligence is OP
stlcarlos989 SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 622	Posted - 2013.12.24 14:14:00 - [7] - Quote Its worth it for Logi Suits and for maximizing your proto dropsuits.
KEROSIINI-TERO The Rainbow Effect 915	Posted - 2013.12.24 14:17:00 - [8] - Quote Takahiro Kashuken wrote: STFU Vehicle pilots dont even get any PG/CPU % increase with the skills We dont even get 5% per level to shield/armor HP, they took away them skills from us Infantry get 4 very useful skills that we dont have anymore That's true, tankers don't have em anymore! But, that is actually good for the game, not to have those mandatory no-brainer skills to have which have HUGE impact. Without which you are a loser. (PG/CPU boost, HP boost and - bud forbid - damage boosts). Softer skills are better! Slight effects, which don't resolve head-on conflicts on behalf of player skill. These lighter skills are the likes of more ammo, faster rotation, module efficacy improvements. CCP is going the right way on vehicles - perhaps the same will happen on infantry fitting Feeling the scanner is too simple and off balance? The fix:
DeadlyAztec11 Ostrakon Agency Gallente Federation 2899	Posted - 2013.12.24 14:23:00 - [9] - Quote At least you get something with your skill, I don't even get anything with the basic medium dropsuit skills. And I have the Minmatar Assault, I regret skilling into that waste of SP, going proto is really not worth it on that suit. Having to use CPU and PG mods is mandatory and your shield recharge rate is crap. I should have skilled into the Commando, at least it looks cool at proto. »We still have our honor!
Greasepalms Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 366	Posted - 2013.12.24 14:23:00 - [10] - Quote you don't need core nukes anyway, you'll be fine with the M1 MOAB grenades.

Takahiro Kashuken Red Star. EoN. 2028	Posted - 2013.12.24 14:29:00 - [11] - Quote KEROSIINI-TERO wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: STFU Vehicle pilots dont even get any PG/CPU % increase with the skills We dont even get 5% per level to shield/armor HP, they took away them skills from us Infantry get 4 very useful skills that we dont have anymore That's true, tankers don't have em anymore! But, that is actually good for the game, not to have those mandatory no-brainer skills to have which have HUGE impact. Without which you are a loser. (PG/CPU boost, HP boost and - bud forbid - damage boosts). Softer skills are better! Slight effects, which don't resolve head-on conflicts on behalf of player skill. These lighter skills are the likes of more ammo, faster rotation, module efficacy improvements. CCP is going the right way on vehicles - perhaps the same will happen on infantry fitting Disagree tbh These skills are still in EVE These skills are classed as core skills These skills back in the day were useful and also just by looking at a tank you could tell if they had these core skills or not I think it does make a difference but also they are useful skills and not just SP sinks I dunno, take away them 4 skills from infantry alot of fits will be red and alot of crying will be had and another respec will be called for on all suits Intelligence is OP
Rynoceros Rise Of Old Dudes 1673	Posted - 2013.12.24 14:31:00 - [12] - Quote Engineering Skill was going to be changed to 1 point per level. Maybe 1.8? Maybe they just gave up on it... Shayz has is right. There are other, cheaper skills, that will get you the effect you're looking for. Heavy, Light, Sidearm Operations are good. They won't open up anything new to you after level 3, but they're valuable Passive skills. Fitting optimization is good, if you can hold yourself to just that one weapon type. Check the sub-skills for bulkier items, as they usually have a way of making them fit. Alyssa Milano.
iceyburnz Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 1246	Posted - 2013.12.24 14:31:00 - [13] - Quote Agreed. 1% bonuses in skills should never be allowed. Its pointless (pun intended). "We spent so much time huddling inside buildings with tanks circling outside like a swarm of sharks around bait"
21yrOld Knight Pradox One Proficiency V. 432	Posted - 2013.12.24 14:34:00 - [14] - Quote I love my core upgrades. I can completely tank my assault ck.o with them. If I had power, I would pour the sweet milk of concord into hell. Malcom Tragedy of Macbeth Act IV Scene 3.
CrotchGrab 360 689	Posted - 2013.12.24 14:35:00 - [15] - Quote i have fitting at level 2. was going to do it again but im not sure on the math. just need...one...more...pg... for my dream fit EDIT: WOW, fitting optimisation is even more useless, 0.35pg these really need to be changed.
Sgt Kirk Kirk Industries 3822	Posted - 2013.12.24 14:41:00 - [16] - Quote CrotchGrab 360 wrote: i have fitting at level 2. was going to do it again but im not sure on the math. just need...one...more...pg... for my dream fit EDIT: WOW, fitting optimisation is even more useless, 0.35pg these really need to be changed. Fitting optimization is probably one of the most useless and overly expensive skills in the game. 5x SP to reduce less than 1 PG per level. With a whooping sum of taking off 1.3 PG on my gun. that's about 2 mil SP to take off 1 PG on my gun. looooooool. Now I'm guessing the skill will be useful once weapon attachments comes into the game and you need that to unlock them but for now it's just stupid.
Leonid Tybalt DIOS EX. General Tso's Alliance 23	Posted - 2013.12.24 14:42:00 - [17] - Quote Ever thought of that your fit might be impossible? Do some maths: go over all the skills in the game that either increase your PG-output or reduce the PG-usage of modules, equipment and weaponry. Then check what the dropsuits basic PG output is, and just start crunching the numbers. Research will help you a lot and insure that you don't spend skillpoints on something impossible. I'd like a madrugar with dual complex armor hardeners and a complex hvy armor repper, and an 80 GJ blaster, with a scanner and nitrous booster... But I know that's never gonna happen becaude it exceeds the maximum cpu-output possible even with maxxed skills.
calisk galern BurgezzE.T.F Public Disorder. 1580	Posted - 2013.12.24 14:52:00 - [18] - Quote some suits would of gotten an extra cpu or pg off of the last 1%. like my logi suit.
Disturbingly Bored The Strontium Asylum 1339	Posted - 2013.12.24 14:52:00 - [19] - Quote Sgt Kirk wrote: Fitting optimization is probably one of the most useless and overly expensive skills in the game. 5x SP to reduce less than 1 PG per level. With a whooping sum of taking off 1.3 PG on my gun. that's about 2 mil SP to take off 1 PG on my gun. looooooool. Now I'm guessing the skill will be useful once weapon attachments comes into the game and you need that to unlock them but for now it's just stupid. It helps fairly well with proto Heavy weapons because of how PG hungry they are, but even there, it's the SP-sink Crowbar of Last Resort. Both of my proto Heavy suits are at 354/354 CPU and 71/71 PG Those two points of FG/HMG Fitting Optimization did the trick... ¶Gêƒ__ Gò« Gû¿GûêGûêGûêGòáGëíGëíGëíGû¬ « GÇó GÇó GÇó GÇó GÇó GÇó GÇó GåÆFAT GATGåÉ pÇûGûôGûôGûôGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæpÇùForum Warrior LV 1 (NEXT: 300/1000XP) ¯Gò¦pÇôpÇù
BATTOUSAI THE MANSLAYER Robbing The Hood Public Disorder. 11	Posted - 2013.12.24 15:12:00 - [20] - Quote Don't spend SP unless you've researched it fully and know exactly what it will do for you I've been actively on everyday for 3 months. I have about 2.5mil SP. I sometimes even grind out another 50-100k SP after I've capped for the week. I don't buy boosters. I have definitely spent points in trees that don't help me at all. I still can get 2k+ WP in a match. You have no place to complain.

John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics League of Infamy 827	Posted - 2013.12.24 15:16:00 - [21] - Quote I-Shayz-I wrote: I have 26 million sp and I only recently maxed circuitry, engineering, and core upgrades. Trust me, level 5 is not worth it until late game, because you could be spending your sp on way better things. Personally I'd look for skills that reduce cpu/pg cost of weapons or items. For instance the nanocircuitry skill gives you an invisible bonus of 5% cpu reduction per level. If you use weapons like the scrambler rifle, skilling into proficiency and then fitting op will help drastically. The light weapon skill is also another good one to take to level 4 as it reduces cpu on all light weapons. I mean, I still don't even have level 5 armor or shields yet. The extra 5% bonus just doesn't exactly mean a lot to me for the sp cost...we're talking like another 4 shields on my logi, that's barely anything. The only reason I have them past level 1 is because I occasionally run a heavy suit...and each of those upgrades gives me an additional 25 shield/armor, which is worthwhile. Try changing things around a bit too. If you use armor plates, going from enhanced to basic only sacrifices like 30ish armor to free up an additional 5 pg. Same thing goes for complex shield extenders and damage mods, which eat up your fitting space. Also, combos like a basic weapon + complex damage mod is more effective isk-wise than just using a prototype weapon. Indeed. Props to you for making me realize that about level 5 in one of your videos. I was at 13-13 mil SP at the time, still barely knew WTF I was doing, lol. That's the Dust skill tree for you... And, just a suggestion to the OP, not trolling at all: The skill tells you eactly what it does, i.e., 1% bonus to PG and SP, or x% to shields, stamina, whatever. Calculate it out before you spend the SP and you'll save yourself the headache. Great example are the enigneering, electronics, and core upgrade skills. They all kinda do the same thing, right? So you need to look at how much SP the next level of each one is and what the benefit to you will be. That way you'll choose the right one: Do I spend 310k for 1% of both or 466k (or whatever) for 5% of one? Those skills are basically mandatory for Logi's but not necessarily for everyone else depending on where you are in your progression. Race matters too. For example, Amarr logi suits are limited by their PG, and Caldari suits more by their CPU. Simple math dictates that 5% CPU is more points than 5% PG, but PG matters way more on the suits I use more (Amarr) so that's what I prioritized. "The line between disorder and order lies in logistics" -Sun Tzu Amarr victor!
Chunky Munkey Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 2727	Posted - 2013.12.24 15:16:00 - [22] - Quote I'd rather see them back to a x2, and the modules seperate at x2. No.
Keri Starlight 0uter.Heaven 2157	Posted - 2013.12.24 15:17:00 - [23] - Quote Upgrading all my fitting skills was the most painful part of the grind. Core Upgrades absolutely sucks, yes, but what about Engineering and Electronics being 5x Skills? My God, CCP, you really love us, don't you... I thought that the nightmare was over, but now I'm looking at "Fitting Optimization" for my Madrugar and it makes wanna die. http://cdn.memegenerator.net/images/160x/1751720.jpg 100% Achura "I load my gun with love instead of bullets"
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics League of Infamy 828	Posted - 2013.12.24 15:19:00 - [24] - Quote Keri Starlight wrote: Upgrading all my fitting skills was the most painful part of the grind. Core Upgrades absolutely sucks, yes, but what about Engineering and Electronics being 5x Skills? My God, CCP, you really love us, don't you... I thought that the nightmare was over, but now I'm looking at "Fitting Optimization" for my Madrugar and it makes wanna die. http://cdn.memegenerator.net/images/160x/1751720.jpg Don't I know it. IMO, nothing should be a 5x skill, that's just soul-crushing. "The line between disorder and order lies in logistics" -Sun Tzu Amarr victor!
Cosgar ParagonX 9012	Posted - 2013.12.24 15:48:00 - [25] - Quote Takahiro Kashuken wrote: STFU Vehicle pilots dont even get any PG/CPU % increase with the skills We dont even get 5% per level to shield/armor HP, they took away them skills from us Infantry get 4 very useful skills that we dont have anymore Infantry might go this direction for 1.8 I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
Blaze Ashra Ametat Security Amarr Empire 37	Posted - 2013.12.24 16:30:00 - [26] - Quote BATTOUSAI THE MANSLAYER wrote: Don't spend SP unless you've researched it fully and know exactly what it will do for you I've been actively on everyday for 3 months. I have about 2.5mil SP. I sometimes even grind out another 50-100k SP after I've capped for the week. I don't buy boosters. I have definitely spent points in trees that don't help me at all. I still can get 2k+ WP in a match. You have no place to complain. I feel your pain. Next week I'll have 4 million SP but I'll never catch up to a lot of these guys. Keeping imbalance because of time invested is stupid in my opinion.
Cat Merc Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 4975	Posted - 2013.12.24 16:34:00 - [27] - Quote Takahiro Kashuken wrote: STFU Vehicle pilots dont even get any PG/CPU % increase with the skills We dont even get 5% per level to shield/armor HP, they took away them skills from us Infantry get 4 very useful skills that we dont have anymore The difference is, tanks are balanced around that. Suits are a ***** to fit unless you get all of those skills to at least level 4. So basically, to be competitive you have to sink tons of SP into those 4 skills, while tanks can be competitive from the get go. Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives. Tuna > Tacos
Nocturnal Soul Immortal Retribution 1338	Posted - 2013.12.24 16:42:00 - [28] - Quote I find it useful on my Amarr suit plus its a 1% bonus to CPU & PG. "The trick to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources..." Albert Einstein


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