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CharCharOdell
1843
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Posted - 2013.12.23 02:48:00 -
[1] - Quote
I played on my scout alt yesterday and not being able to take on 4 mlt tanks at once with my tank was an eye openener.
New Eden is supposed to be vicious and unforgiving, I get that, but there is a point of no return when there isn't a PvE mode.
As a tanker, I don't want tanks nerfed, I also don't want AV buffed because that affects dropships which are FINALLY becoming powerful and I really don't want to change that.
So, how can we keep this game vicious and brutal for the vets without making it a living hell for newer players who can't afford to spec vehicles AND infantry.
I've noticed that in PC, the whole mentality of 'tanks = win button' does not exist because it is skirmish only. The team who intends to win cannot do so without good infantry to hack and keep objectives, and should they fail to, they don't get a worthwhile reward to balance their losses. What this means is that tanks being very powerful are perfectly acceptable in PC and FW because it players to the favor of the high-risk, high-reward style that vets and tankers thrive in.
Pubs are different. Tanks are cheap and even if your team loses, you make at least 160k which is enough to pay for 1 or 2 decent tanks. This encourages tank spam and it is annoying. The obvious answer is the straight cap or not allow tanks into pubs, but that is not fair to tankers at all, so a more elegant solution must be found for dom/skirm , and a different one for ambush.
For pub/skirmish, to keep tank spam from becoming as annoying as it is, tanks need to be limited to 2/team. 2 tanks is exponentially easier to deal with than 6.
For ambush, one of the problems, other than a team with 0 tanks fighting a team with 6 tanks, is even if both teams have 6 tankers, if one team loses all of them first, or calls them in too late, they likely won't get their tanks into play before the bolas' is destroyed. A way to solve this is remove tanks from ambush altogether and leave it as a CoD-esque mode. As a tanker, I'm fine with that bc infantry stomping isn't my thing.
Removing tanks from ambush does mean that skirmish will be the only place for new tanks and AV, but with only 2 tanks/battle, it's extremely doubtful that 'tank spam' will be an issue like it is, now.
Now with care-bear pub matches, and brutal FW and PC, tanks have a place to go to be tanks, but infantry have a place to go if they don't want to get attacked by 6 tanks at once.
I prefer my ideas because they change the game without changing our equipment, which is upsetting.
Gùñ-é-º+¼+ò+¦GÖÑ+ú+ú+¡ GÖÑ'Ðe+ü+üGùÑ
Gùú -ä>-üð+++Ç++§<-¡<-¡ Gùó
I like railguns.
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DeadlyAztec11
2860
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Posted - 2013.12.23 02:51:00 -
[2] - Quote
What's this... O'Dell realizes tanks are OP.
This is a turning point in the history of dust. SOMEONE TAKE A PICTURE!
»We still have our honor!
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CharCharOdell
1843
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Posted - 2013.12.23 02:53:00 -
[3] - Quote
DeadlyAztec11 wrote:What's this... O'Dell realizes tanks are OP.
This is a turning point in the history of dust. SOMEONE TAKE A PICTURE!
It's not that they're OP. They excel at exactly what they are supposed to do and don't do anything else. That's "balance". But the game mechanics are what make them feel "OP" when you're on the other hand.
Changing the rules is better than nerfing tanks because if I know tankers, we'll stay OP as long as we exist. I just feel like this tank spam is the same kind of problem as duvolle spam last build in pubs.
Gùñ-é-º+¼+ò+¦GÖÑ+ú+ú+¡ GÖÑ'Ðe+ü+üGùÑ
Gùú -ä>-üð+++Ç++§<-¡<-¡ Gùó
I like railguns.
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Poplo Furuya
Condotta Rouvenor
Gallente Federation
733
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Posted - 2013.12.23 03:03:00 -
[4] - Quote
Been any word on Skirmish 3.0?
Might seem out of left field but I ask because I still think we need an asymmetric and well-designed strategic game mode to give vehicles context. TDM and Skirmish 2.0 don't deliver and we could do with modes that are worth balancing around before we get to fine-tuning.
If it's done the other way around previous tuning could be wasted when (if) the paradigm shift occurs. |
MINA Longstrike
2Shitz 1Giggle
180
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Posted - 2013.12.23 03:04:00 -
[5] - Quote
2/team isn't a good fix because all it means is that infantry will attempt to ignore tanks. Tanks aren't op, you just need to av them. Skill into forge guns, assaults wreck armor tanks and breaches do awful things to shields |
Alldin Kan
Imperfects
Negative-Feedback
869
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Posted - 2013.12.23 03:25:00 -
[6] - Quote
Militia tanks will always be terrible so there's no excuse for not being able to pop them (unless swarm on shield). A smart driver with a railgun CAN take on multiple tanks and survive, it would simply be a matter of being in a good spot where multiple tanks can't shoot you (same applies to Forge user). The only fit so far that should not even exist for it's MAXIMUM durability is the Caldari HAV with PRO railgun, 2 complex hardeners, and a Complex Shield Extender (or Enhanced Heavy Shield Booster). I would use the fit but that would make the battles last too long and redline tanks will simply retreat.
Uprising 1.7 - TANKDOMINATION!!1!!1!
LOL Commando
LOL Plasma Cannon
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CharCharOdell
1845
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Posted - 2013.12.23 03:31:00 -
[7] - Quote
Alldin Kan wrote:Militia tanks will always be terrible so there's no excuse for not being able to pop them (unless swarm on shield). A smart driver with a railgun CAN take on multiple tanks and survive, it would simply be a matter of being in a good spot where multiple tanks can't shoot you (same applies to Forge user). The only fit so far that should not even exist for it's MAXIMUM durability as AV is the Caldari HAV with PRO railgun, 2 complex hardeners, and a Complex Shield Extender (or Enhanced Heavy Shield Booster). I would use the fit but that would make the battles last too long and redline tanks will simply retreat.
lol. that's the fit i killed you with :P
except damage mod instead of extender.
I have no problem with it. If i stack 2 damage mods, I break through their tank, anyhow.
Gùñ-é-º+¼+ò+¦GÖÑ+ú+ú+¡ GÖÑ'Ðe+ü+üGùÑ
Gùú -ä>-üð+++Ç++§<-¡<-¡ Gùó
I like railguns.
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thesupertman
Better Hide R Die
89
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Posted - 2013.12.23 03:31:00 -
[8] - Quote
Nerf the tanks HP so it takes more skill to use.... Please!!!
I think I'm the only person still waiting for mechs/giant robot killing machines.....
dangCCPyourslowpickupthepace
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Cosgar
ParagonX
8987
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Posted - 2013.12.23 03:31:00 -
[9] - Quote
You know this is New Eden right? Things aren't supposed to exactly be fair. There's nothing to stop anyone from calling in their own militia tank if they don't have their own AV aside from personal pride. If you try to have a fair fight, you're doing something wrong.
I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
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True Adamance
Scions of Athra
5209
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Posted - 2013.12.23 03:32:00 -
[10] - Quote
CharCharOdell wrote:DeadlyAztec11 wrote:What's this... O'Dell realizes tanks are OP.
This is a turning point in the history of dust. SOMEONE TAKE A PICTURE! It's not that they're OP. They excel at exactly what they are supposed to do and don't do anything else. That's "balance". But the game mechanics are what make them feel "OP" when you're on the other hand. Changing the rules is better than nerfing tanks because if I know tankers, we'll stay OP as long as we exist. I just feel like this tank spam is the same kind of problem as duvolle spam last build in pubs.
Admittedly I feel this is true. the ending days of 1.6 were my best days of tanking ever. I don't really think people want me to go back to that set up.
I don't mind the changing up of rules and tank costs to be more in line with their value on the map, however I don't feel tanks need nerfs, they could be repurposed, or have their roles on the map redesigned.
However people in this game are knee jerking when they seem Soma coming over the horizon....which isn't a product of the original tanker player base....we are using our Maddy or Gunlogi....its the by product of infantry wanting to get even more kills then claiming its another part of the player base causing the problem.
To a Texan like you, a hero is some type of weird sandwich, not some nut who takes on three Gunlogi.
Reference = ISK
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ratamaq doc
Edge Regiment
277
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Posted - 2013.12.23 03:35:00 -
[11] - Quote
How about an ambush mode for infantry only, that way tank pilots who want to just have a kind of tank battle arena can stroke each others turrets on regular ambush.
YouTube
30D Recruiting
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DJINN Marauder
Ancient Exiles.
Renegade Alliance
3523
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Posted - 2013.12.23 03:37:00 -
[12] - Quote
Finally a tanker realizes the problem..
Now go make the other tankers agree
GôÉGô¥GôÿGô£Gôö > GôÉGô¢Gô¢
Gÿà¿When will dust get better?Gÿà
Forum Warrior LV. 3 | Warframe is awesome! | PSN: I-NINJA-ALL-DAY
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True Adamance
Scions of Athra
5211
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Posted - 2013.12.23 03:53:00 -
[13] - Quote
thesupertman wrote:Nerf the tanks HP so it takes more skill to use.... Please!!!
We just had an HP nerf, you know how you don't see 6753 Maddies rolling around anymore with equivalent resists..... that's about a 2000 Armour HP nerf against my tank and the loss of my active reps. Exchanged so I could have resistance and high EHP for the space of 30 seconds.
I do feel infantry need a way to trap tanks though, like the standard tackle an EVE ship might run, so that a clever player can "capture a Tank" for X seconds, or over load modules, etc so AV units have the 6 sec they need to put 3-4 Swarm volleys into my vulnerable 4000 Armour hull.
Or 3-4 Forges on a marauding Gunlogi laying waste to the teams armour tanks.
To a Texan like you, a hero is some type of weird sandwich, not some nut who takes on three Gunlogi.
Reference = ISK
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