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Ryme Intrinseca
405
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Posted - 2013.12.23 00:32:00 -
[1] - Quote
Ghosts Chance wrote:its not that rock is OP, its that nobody wants to play paper and everyone wants to play scizors and rock. My recollection of rock-paper-scissors is that paper is better at beating rock than rock is. Can you honestly say that AV is better at destroying a tank than another tank is? |
Ryme Intrinseca
405
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Posted - 2013.12.23 00:37:00 -
[2] - Quote
medomai grey wrote:I have an anti-tank fit... It's called a tank.
The problem with swarms and AV grenades is that they're not effective against vehicles on their cool down, when vehicles are suppose to be vulnerable. Theses weapons have trouble taking out LAVs and dropships, not just tanks. Although for some of you the entire game seems to revolve around tanks...
Assault forgeguns need to less damage than their regular counterpart. Yeah nerf AV, it's so OP! And nerf flaylocks and contact nades while you're at it |
Ryme Intrinseca
405
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Posted - 2013.12.23 01:49:00 -
[3] - Quote
Ghosts Chance wrote:Ryme Intrinseca wrote:Ghosts Chance wrote:its not that rock is OP, its that nobody wants to play paper and everyone wants to play scizors and rock. My recollection of rock-paper-scissors is that paper is better at beating rock than rock is. Can you honestly say that AV is better at destroying a tank than another tank is? yes, because my paper comes in the form of a whole squad.... without diminishing its AI capabilities 6 man squad with AVs and fluxes with a SINGLE av guy in the mix and you NEVER have to worry about tanks again, not only that but you dont have to get into a tank if you dont want to, and you get to run on the gorund shooting people in the face all you want uninterupted by vehicles. thats what everyones bitching about wanting isnt it? to run around as infantry and not ahve to worry about a tank owning you unmolested? im literally handing the solution to everyone on a silver platter, a solution that bends to everyones collective will of "i dont want to run around hunting tanks all game" "i dont want to run a tank" "i want to destroy tanks easily" "i want to just run around shooting infantry" the solution is RUN IN A DAMN SQUAD WIITH A SINGLE AV GUY, the collective action of a squad with AV nades and fluxes alone is deadly to a tank, adding the AV guy in there is just the icing. So you answered my question 'Can you honestly say that AV is better at destroying a tank than another tank is?' by saying that six AVers (AV grenade=AV) are better than one tank at anti-tank. You should try a career in politics.
The way I remember rock-paper-scissors, one paper would beat one rock. So let's try again.
Is one AV better at taking out a tank than one tank?
Or if you prefer, you can answer this one: What has a better chance of taking out a convoy of six tanks - six tanks or six AVers? |
Ryme Intrinseca
405
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Posted - 2013.12.23 02:00:00 -
[4] - Quote
Ghosts Chance wrote:Ryme Intrinseca wrote:Ghosts Chance wrote:Ryme Intrinseca wrote:Ghosts Chance wrote:its not that rock is OP, its that nobody wants to play paper and everyone wants to play scizors and rock. My recollection of rock-paper-scissors is that paper is better at beating rock than rock is. Can you honestly say that AV is better at destroying a tank than another tank is? yes, because my paper comes in the form of a whole squad.... without diminishing its AI capabilities 6 man squad with AVs and fluxes with a SINGLE av guy in the mix and you NEVER have to worry about tanks again, not only that but you dont have to get into a tank if you dont want to, and you get to run on the gorund shooting people in the face all you want uninterupted by vehicles. thats what everyones bitching about wanting isnt it? to run around as infantry and not ahve to worry about a tank owning you unmolested? im literally handing the solution to everyone on a silver platter, a solution that bends to everyones collective will of "i dont want to run around hunting tanks all game" "i dont want to run a tank" "i want to destroy tanks easily" "i want to just run around shooting infantry" the solution is RUN IN A DAMN SQUAD WIITH A SINGLE AV GUY, the collective action of a squad with AV nades and fluxes alone is deadly to a tank, adding the AV guy in there is just the icing. So you answered my question 'Can you honestly say that AV is better at destroying a tank than another tank is?' by saying that six AVers (AV grenade=AV) are better than one tank at anti-tank. You should try a career in politics. The way I remember rock-paper-scissors, one paper would beat one rock. So let's try again. Is one AV better at taking out a tank than one tank? Or if you prefer, you can answer this one: What has a better chance of taking out a convoy of six tanks - six tanks or six AVers? AV nades a dedicated AV class does not make. your point is now invalid. 6 tanks arnt fitting into the city at the same time, and in the city they cant cover each other due to LOS... so the 6 man squad wins there too. also your an idiot, this isnt a solo game. Who said anything about this being a solo game? I even asked you what's better at anti-tank, six tanks or six AV. Not only are you unable to give a straight answer to simple questions, you can't even read. You just went FR. |
Ryme Intrinseca
405
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Posted - 2013.12.23 02:31:00 -
[5] - Quote
Ghosts Chance wrote:Ryme Intrinseca wrote:Who said anything about this being a solo game? I even asked you what's better at anti-tank, six tanks or six AV. Not only are you unable to give a straight answer to simple questions, you can't even read. You just went FR. first, im infantry dumbass. and 6 infantry are better at winning the game then 6 tanks, pure and simple. i added more to the other post as well to flesh out the point. your an idiot if you thank you going to kill proper tankers in your damage mod sica/soma i have my railtank of old, but im not pulling the thing out just to kill off tanks when im runnign as infantry. if im running in a tank its fromt he start of the tgame till the end. its not an AV solution you pull out in the middle of a game. also you wont kill me with your crappy militia tanks, so YOUR more effective against my tank as the 6 man squad then in your stupid tank. hell your more effective in your 6 man squad then if you were all to hop in 6 tanks vs my 1 fighting on a vetrens terms wont kill him, hes better then you at tanking. but your probably better at infantry so use an infantry based solution and you gain the advantage. Again you fail at reading comprehension. When did I ever say anything about you being non-infantry?
But I really want us to get along. I like your spunk, in a totally hetero way. So let me assure you that you'll never see me in a tank of any description. I'm just pointing out that when the field is full of tanks but I don't even think about bringing out my proficiency 5 forge gun, something is seriously wrong with the game. I might get the tank, but it's just not worth putting down my AR when any scrub in a militia rail tank will do a better job than my forge.
The game CAN be played by infantry, but it involves a lot of hiding in buildings, which makes it very boring. I've played three matches in the last two weeks; before that I capped every week for six months+.
I'm sure you're having fun making every squad member give up their locus for AV nades, but in that case you'll all die quickly the moment you come in contact with a decent squad. You do realize core locus is a primary weapon for many PC-level players? If you're relying on your rifle you're giving yourself a 600HP disadvantage in most engagements. But I'm sure what you're doing works in pubs, anything does <3 |
Ryme Intrinseca
405
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Posted - 2013.12.23 02:32:00 -
[6] - Quote
I'm a bit surprised spunk got through tbh. |
Ryme Intrinseca
405
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Posted - 2013.12.23 03:11:00 -
[7] - Quote
Ghosts Chance wrote:Ryme Intrinseca wrote:Ghosts Chance wrote:Ryme Intrinseca wrote:Who said anything about this being a solo game? I even asked you what's better at anti-tank, six tanks or six AV. Not only are you unable to give a straight answer to simple questions, you can't even read. You just went FR. first, im infantry dumbass. and 6 infantry are better at winning the game then 6 tanks, pure and simple. i added more to the other post as well to flesh out the point. your an idiot if you thank you going to kill proper tankers in your damage mod sica/soma i have my railtank of old, but im not pulling the thing out just to kill off tanks when im runnign as infantry. if im running in a tank its fromt he start of the tgame till the end. its not an AV solution you pull out in the middle of a game. also you wont kill me with your crappy militia tanks, so YOUR more effective against my tank as the 6 man squad then in your stupid tank. hell your more effective in your 6 man squad then if you were all to hop in 6 tanks vs my 1 fighting on a vetrens terms wont kill him, hes better then you at tanking. but your probably better at infantry so use an infantry based solution and you gain the advantage. Again you fail at reading comprehension. When did I ever say anything about you being non-infantry? But I really want us to get along. I like your spunk, in a totally hetero way. So let me assure you that you'll never see me in a tank of any description. I'm just pointing out that when the field is full of tanks but I don't even think about bringing out my proficiency 5 forge gun, something is seriously wrong with the game. I might get the tank, but it's just not worth putting down my AR when any scrub in a militia rail tank will do a better job than my forge. The game CAN be played by infantry, but it involves a lot of hiding in buildings, which makes it very boring. I've played three matches in the last two weeks; before that I capped every week for six months+. I'm sure you're having fun making every squad member give up their locus for AV nades, but in that case you'll all die quickly the moment you come in contact with a decent squad. You do realize core locus is a primary weapon for many PC-level players? If you're relying on your rifle you're giving yourself a 600HP disadvantage in most engagements. But I'm sure what you're doing works in pubs, anything does <3 if you cant solo a tank with a prof 5 forge gun no wonder your pissed off... that should be simple! thats not somethign wrong with the game, thats just you sucking at it. a scrub in a milita tank wont kill a good tanker.... even YOU have better odds with your forge then that. your last point is conflicting... as a PC team doesnt really give a **** about tanks because of how easy they are to destroy so they dont NEED AV nades..... i gave a simple and VERY effective solution with a low skill cap that just about any group of 6 can use to solve the problem, and instead of using it i get bitched at for even suggesting its possable. i dont even need the solution i presented, i solo the damn things when they get anoying both as infantry and in a tank. dont talk of PC level tactics if you cant solo a tank with a forge as THAT plus tanks are the current anti-tank platform at competitive levels. your obviously not competitive and so have zero insight into those tactics outside of getting stomped by them. core spam is another issue entirely. what more do you want other then a way to kill tanks without using a tank? Yet again, you fail to read plain English. I said I can kill a tank with a forge but taking my AR (=a potent anti-infantry threat) off the field isn't worth it to the team, when any nooblet (=not normally a threat to anybody) could do the job just as well in a militia tank.
I'm just going to leave it there to save you from disgracing yourself and your country's educational system any further. |
Ryme Intrinseca
408
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Posted - 2013.12.23 14:13:00 -
[8] - Quote
Justicar Karnellia wrote:pegasis prime wrote:I put up a thread to discuss the possibilities of an av suit with bonuses generated towards each races av weponary but it was soon forgotten and buried beneath all the QQ nerf tank threads. I did read that thread!!! I agree that it's worthwhile as a solution to balancing the problem. It's true that there is no "anti-vehicle" skill tree for infantry and there are so few weapons that can hurt tanks. Different ammo types for the swarms might be a start, and just a start... It's a trap!
At the moment there are several suits (e.g. Min assault, which makes your sidearm beastly; Ama logi, which gives you the sidearm plus slots for REs; heavy basic frame, for two damage mod forge) that are especially suited to AV. If you introduced a new AV suit that was worth using, dedicated AV would have millions of SP trapped in what used to be a good proto AV suit. Do we really want to screw infantry over yet again by making their good choices into bad ones by changing the rules of the game?
Couple that with the fact that infantry already have plenty of SP trapped in other once useful but now useless places because they didn't get a respec like the precious vehicle users did, and you can see that not many players would have the SP to spare to go into this new suit. The idea is just an elaborate tanker distraction from the 30%+ damage buff that is evidently needed for all AV weapons, no strings attached. |
Ryme Intrinseca
409
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Posted - 2013.12.23 15:07:00 -
[9] - Quote
pegasis prime wrote:Ryme Intrinseca wrote:Justicar Karnellia wrote:pegasis prime wrote:I put up a thread to discuss the possibilities of an av suit with bonuses generated towards each races av weponary but it was soon forgotten and buried beneath all the QQ nerf tank threads. I did read that thread!!! I agree that it's worthwhile as a solution to balancing the problem. It's true that there is no "anti-vehicle" skill tree for infantry and there are so few weapons that can hurt tanks. Different ammo types for the swarms might be a start, and just a start... It's a trap!At the moment there are several suits (e.g. Min assault, which makes your sidearm beastly; Ama logi, which gives you the sidearm plus slots for REs; heavy basic frame, for two damage mod forge) that are especially suited to AV. If you introduced a new AV suit that was worth using, dedicated AV would have millions of SP trapped in what used to be a good proto AV suit. Do we really want to screw infantry over yet again by making their good choices into bad ones by changing the rules of the game? Couple that with the fact that infantry already have plenty of SP trapped in other once useful but now useless places because they didn't get a respec like the precious vehicle users did, and you can see that not many players would have the SP to spare to go into this new suit. The idea is just an elaborate tanker distraction from the 30%+ damage buff that is evidently needed for all AV weapons, no strings attached. ok dude you might be beyond help but ill give it a go.... vehicle users did not get a respect we had sp returned from skills that were REMOVED.. Giving av a specific suit fr=or each race that will give some sort of inherent bonus towards that races racial wepon will help the AV cause , it will also end any QQ from any tanker about the difference in cost of sp to run a fully fit complex tanc compaird to proto av... it would also let avers be a class into their own what is your problem with this ??? do you have any other sollutions other than buffing av outright ????? if not then jog on. You can fling around all the childish insults you like, but anyone in their right mind can see that AV needs an outright buff. Even decent tankers know something is wrong when a prof 5 swarm or forge is outperformed by a militia rail tank.
The AV suit would do nothing about that. I've already put about 20 million SP in my AV fit (3 mil for suit, 3 mil for weapon, and 14 mil or so in supporting skills). Why should I have to spend millions more on a new SP sink just to achieve parity with a militia tank? Your idea of balance is for AV to need 23 million SP to be as effective at their role as a zero SP tank.
And vehicle users did get a respec. CCP even called it that. You could at least try to get a grip on basic game concepts before you start spouting your ill-informed opinions. |
Ryme Intrinseca
410
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Posted - 2013.12.23 15:09:00 -
[10] - Quote
The Attorney General wrote:These types of threads show why this game will never get a good player base growing.
Too many cowards and scrubs. The only thing they ever consider is what is easiest, then do that.
No attempt for a challenge, just stomping if they can, nothing more.
That is why none of them have any heavies in their squads, because when the heavy was no good vs infantry, they avoided it like the plague. Now when they need someone in a fat suit with a forge, they have none.
So because they went the easy route with swarms, and now want to go the easy route with MLT tanks, it doesn't matter how you try and argue with them.
All they want is easy mode, however they need it. If it is difficult, they move on to something else, because trying is overrated to most of the people who play this game. If militia tanks are easy mode, that would make maxed out tanks Godmode. |
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Ryme Intrinseca
416
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Posted - 2013.12.23 16:40:00 -
[11] - Quote
The Attorney General wrote:Atiim wrote:Takahiro Kashuken wrote:OP is correct
AV players can defo make out a living killing tanks and can do it every game aswell if they really want to, problem is they dont want to because they cant do it solo because they have the IQ of a teaspoon and teamwork is nonexistant
You say this as if tanking has teamwork as a prequisite. We could AV. Or we could use the better AV, which is a MLT HAV. Lets see here. 200k per suit with the guarrantee to die 3-4 times trying to kill the tank, while also being shredded and pounded by infantry at the same time. OR 78k tank with a MLT Railgun that does more damage than any AV weapon in this game could possible hope to achice, theoretical invulnerability from infantry, and the guarantee to die 0-1 times. Which one should I pick? Your example only works if you are bad on foot and good in tanks. However, if you are bad in both, then you will be dying regularly to everything. Well, unless you are hiding in the redline, in which case you are just searching for easy mode because you are a scrub. I think Atim is right. If I spend an entire skirmish chasing tanks on foot with proto forge and suit, I will usually die 3 or 4 times unless my team is stomping. I'm a pretty good infantry player, 27,000 kills and KDR over 3 (about double that for the month). It's just that a heavy with a forge and SMG is too slow to choose its engagements and is highly vulnerable to both tanks and infantry. It's true that I could die less by towerforging but I don't because that's just as scrubby as hiding in the redline.
I don't use tanks at all, but I really doubt that competent tankers are frequently dieing 3 or 4 times in this build even in militia tanks. |
Ryme Intrinseca
421
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Posted - 2013.12.24 00:05:00 -
[12] - Quote
medomai grey wrote:Ryme Intrinseca wrote:medomai grey wrote:I have an anti-tank fit... It's called a tank.
The problem with swarms and AV grenades is that they're not effective against vehicles on their cool down, when vehicles are suppose to be vulnerable. Theses weapons have trouble taking out LAVs and dropships, not just tanks. Although for some of you the entire game seems to revolve around tanks...
Assault forgeguns need to less damage than their regular counterpart. Yeah nerf AV, it's so OP! And nerf flaylocks and contact nades while you're at it English is your second language, isn't it. 'Assault forgeguns need to less damage than their regular counterpart' confirms (1) that you're trying to nerf the only halfway viable AV and (2) that my English is better than yours. Get good, grammar scrub |
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