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Jason Pearson
3591
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Posted - 2013.12.22 23:36:00 -
[1] - Quote
You ruin the game.
King of the Forums // Vehicle Specialist for Hire.
Buffing or Debuffing Vehicles or AV will never fix anything.
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Jason Pearson
3595
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Posted - 2013.12.23 00:26:00 -
[2] - Quote
KING CHECKMATE wrote:Jason Pearson wrote:You ruin the game. Heh.Its funny how tankers keep insisting everything is ok....
It's funny how you keep forgetting my threads, you know the ones that call for actual balance rather than ridiculous buffs to current AV that isn't needed, and yet still get in the "YOU WANT TO STAY BROKEN AND BE OP" despite giving reasonable feedback and offering viable solutions that wouldn't be ******* ridiculous for one side or the other.
But no, please, go ahead, QQ some more about how hard it is to kill a tank and then just ignore anything that isn't BUFF ALL THE AV. The majority of you are scrubs that just want to sit on a building holding R1 down without aiming anyways.
King of the Forums // Vehicle Specialist for Hire.
Buffing or Debuffing Vehicles or AV will never fix anything.
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Jason Pearson
3595
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Posted - 2013.12.23 00:42:00 -
[3] - Quote
The dark cloud wrote:The current state of this game is basically to get as many tanks on your side before the other team does. And once that happends its basically game over and no way to defeat the other team. You might say that different game modes would grant versatile gameplay sadly this is not the case.
-Ambush
you better call as many tanks in as possible cause the other team will do it aswell. And once your tank count hits 0 there is no way to get the upper hand. Dont bother with AV once there are 6 tanks they just steamroll you regardless how much AV you bring.
-Skirmish
once you get redlined the hostile team switches to a combo of blaster and railgun tanks. The railgun tanks will pop your vehicles before you can even get into them.
-Domination
same as skirmish just with 1 objective.
So how can we stop this madness? Av obviously doesnt cut it cause swarms do 0 damage against hardened shield tanks and armor tanks can achieve somewhat like 500HP/s passive repair which means that even proto assault forgegun hits are repaired before you can squeeze a 2nd shot out. In my opinion AV needs to be brought back to their former performance yes this means swarms, forgeguns and AV nades.
A other solution would be to hardcap tanks in any game mode to max 2. No cap on LAV's and like 3 dropships at once. This game has become literally unplayable if you stay as regular infantry. The last time where i felt the need to bring a tank into every match was in the closed beta. Where if you wouldnt had a tank you lost the game by default. And as it looks like those days returned. Does CCP actually think that bringing back old stuff (which is obviously broken) is a good idea?
Anyway ive let a guy from CCP feel how it is to be on the "receiving end" from a hardened shield tank. Used a gunnlogi and did put 3 shield hardeners onto it. kept 1 running all the time and let him get some volleys off to demonstrate that his proto swarms are useless. the name of the dev was "CCP Pacifier."
Anyways I better address the OP properly.
Don't much care for Ambush do what you want there, but for Skirmish and Domi, don't reduce the hardcap, I'm not here to kill Infantry every game, I'm playing for the tank fights, the ones where two tank squads meet and just lay into eachother, more fun that Infantry.
You've lost all my respect as a vehicle player Cloud, you keep talking about swarms against a ******* shield tank, it's ******** as **** and until you learn that Explosives aren't going to match up to forges or PLCs, your going to carry on looking like an idiot.
Next, a tank with a 500hp/s passive regen (I'm pretty sure you've pulled that number out of thin air) would mean sacrificing all the low slots in favour of heavy reps, meaning no hardeners, meaning you just need to break his shields and then smash him with proto swarms + dam mods, two volleys, he'll be pretty close to death, you just have to keep on him... wait you didn't want to just toss three av grenades did you? iirc you used to cry about that all the time.
Finally, you're using THREE ******* shield hardeners and you're being hit by EXPLOSIVES, your opinion is invalid for using broken fittings /thread.
King of the Forums // Vehicle Specialist for Hire.
Buffing or Debuffing Vehicles or AV will never fix anything.
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Jason Pearson
3595
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Posted - 2013.12.23 00:45:00 -
[4] - Quote
KING CHECKMATE wrote:
* Don't see why I shouldn't be able to have a viable role on the map every game if I want to fork out ISK for it.
im not saying that.im saying tanking is broken. Tankers keep twisting my/our words trying it to sound like we are just QQ ing about anything. deep inside, you all know something is wrong. Just want to keep the crutch taht are MLT tanks.
*Was funny how AVers said everything was fine when they were invisible at 50m could shoot swarms across the map with no aim or skill required and pump out 7k damagein 6 seconds.
You should very well know i was against bad Rendering on all AV weaponry.
You sure talk like Tanking is a ''skilled'' art now in 1.7..... EVEN I can tank... LOL
.... because infantry combat is boring as hell.
This is just a point of view and NOT a fact. There by,it cannot be used to talk about balance in any way.
Preeeetty sure AVers are the ones that get mad when we talk about nerfing/changing militia tanks followed by "IF YOU NERF THEM YOU JUST WANT TO BE INVINCIBLE!!!!!111"
Tanking requires more effort than previously, unless you're a massive scrub using more than a single hardener, breaking the game. And sure, you may think you can "tank", but anyone can tank against bad AVers or bad tankers, what sets you apart is fighting good tankers and AVers.
King of the Forums // Vehicle Specialist for Hire.
Buffing or Debuffing Vehicles or AV will never fix anything.
|
Jason Pearson
3596
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Posted - 2013.12.23 00:50:00 -
[5] - Quote
KING CHECKMATE wrote:dogmanpig wrote:KING CHECKMATE wrote:Jason Pearson wrote:You ruin the game. Heh.Its funny how tankers keep insisting everything is ok.... its funny how you keep asking for the forge to have 10k range, unlimted range, full auto w/ 700 rounds and OHK everything including the MCC. Yeah , THATS EXACTLY what im asking for.... Quote me on that so i wont think you are a SCRUB talking out of his ass...
Oh wait...YOU CANT.
Ahem
KING CHECKMATE wrote:
I WANT MY FORGE TO HAVE 10KM RANGE AND 700 ROUNDS IN IT AND BUFF SO I CAN DO OHKSON EVERYTHING!
It would also be nice to make it fully auto so I don't have to charge it any more.
Found it.
King of the Forums // Vehicle Specialist for Hire.
Buffing or Debuffing Vehicles or AV will never fix anything.
|
Jason Pearson
3596
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Posted - 2013.12.23 00:56:00 -
[6] - Quote
True Adamance wrote:
What the hell do you infantry players want?
It's rather simple, Infantry want to be able to use three Lai Dais with minimal effort to remove us from the battlefield. They've gotten so use to the ezmode AV, and the proper tankers have gotten so used to being stomped a lot, so they've adapted and gotten better at tanking, that they just simply outclass most of the AVers in the game.
King of the Forums // Vehicle Specialist for Hire.
Buffing or Debuffing Vehicles or AV will never fix anything.
|
Jason Pearson
3608
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Posted - 2013.12.23 15:10:00 -
[7] - Quote
The dark cloud wrote:Jason Pearson wrote:The dark cloud wrote:The current state of this game is basically to get as many tanks on your side before the other team does. And once that happends its basically game over and no way to defeat the other team. You might say that different game modes would grant versatile gameplay sadly this is not the case.
-Ambush
you better call as many tanks in as possible cause the other team will do it aswell. And once your tank count hits 0 there is no way to get the upper hand. Dont bother with AV once there are 6 tanks they just steamroll you regardless how much AV you bring.
-Skirmish
once you get redlined the hostile team switches to a combo of blaster and railgun tanks. The railgun tanks will pop your vehicles before you can even get into them.
-Domination
same as skirmish just with 1 objective.
So how can we stop this madness? Av obviously doesnt cut it cause swarms do 0 damage against hardened shield tanks and armor tanks can achieve somewhat like 500HP/s passive repair which means that even proto assault forgegun hits are repaired before you can squeeze a 2nd shot out. In my opinion AV needs to be brought back to their former performance yes this means swarms, forgeguns and AV nades.
A other solution would be to hardcap tanks in any game mode to max 2. No cap on LAV's and like 3 dropships at once. This game has become literally unplayable if you stay as regular infantry. The last time where i felt the need to bring a tank into every match was in the closed beta. Where if you wouldnt had a tank you lost the game by default. And as it looks like those days returned. Does CCP actually think that bringing back old stuff (which is obviously broken) is a good idea?
Anyway ive let a guy from CCP feel how it is to be on the "receiving end" from a hardened shield tank. Used a gunnlogi and did put 3 shield hardeners onto it. kept 1 running all the time and let him get some volleys off to demonstrate that his proto swarms are useless. the name of the dev was "CCP Pacifier." Anyways I better address the OP properly. Don't much care for Ambush do what you want there, but for Skirmish and Domi, don't reduce the hardcap, I'm not here to kill Infantry every game, I'm playing for the tank fights, the ones where two tank squads meet and just lay into eachother, more fun that Infantry. You've lost all my respect as a vehicle player Cloud, you keep talking about swarms against a ******* shield tank, it's ******** as **** and until you learn that Explosives aren't going to match up to forges or PLCs, your going to carry on looking like an idiot. Next, a tank with a 500hp/s passive regen (I'm pretty sure you've pulled that number out of thin air) would mean sacrificing all the low slots in favour of heavy reps, meaning no hardeners, meaning you just need to break his shields and then smash him with proto swarms + dam mods, two volleys, he'll be pretty close to death, you just have to keep on him... wait you didn't want to just toss three av grenades did you? iirc you used to cry about that all the time. Finally, you're using THREE ******* shield hardeners and you're being hit by EXPLOSIVES, your opinion is invalid for using broken fittings /thread. First off 500HP/s armor reps is possible and before the guy gets a 2nd volley off with proto swarms his armor is back to 100% which makes it kinda pointless. And secondly i used 1 hardener at a time not 3 at once. Tanking now takes like 0 skill due to the not effective AV we have. And dont even dare it to test it if a armor tank with 3 reps is better then a armor tank that has a hardener. The more reps you have the better it is. And as long there is no AV weapon that deals over 4000HP damage in 1 hit (jihad LAV is a exception) it is not possible to catch a decent tanker.
Pretty sure you need three complex or alteast two and one enhanced to get that kind of repping on a Madrugar, and I'm pretty sure you can't fit it. If it's outhealing a single swarm launcher, I'm pretty sure it's working as intended because it's sacrificed hardeners for constant reps but will suck at anything other than fighting a single swarm player (It'll get instagibbed by another Tank), so it's specialized to deal with Infantry.
What's your point? A single hardener should be allowed to be fitted due to the fact that anymore breaks the game when it comes to waves of opportunity, I wouldn't care much if you activated all three at once but you're cycling three which counters any cooldown, it's broken and needs to be removed, one hardener per fit, or more but incur harsh penalities or get activated all at once no matter what.
Tanking takes more skill than when you were doing it properly, the only thing is that there is no penalties to armor reps, there's no penalities to multiple hardeners. Look to fix hardeners, look to give armor penalties and look to webifiers to slow tanks down and not allowing them to escape. This will bring further balance to Vehicles and AV
King of the Forums // Vehicle Specialist for Hire.
Buffing or Debuffing Vehicles or AV will never fix anything.
|
Jason Pearson
3609
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Posted - 2013.12.23 16:04:00 -
[8] - Quote
The dark cloud wrote:
I could deal with it if you where only allowed 1 hardener per fit and stacking penaltys for other modules. Webs sound nice on paper but we havent received them yet. Which puts infantry at a massive disadvantage. Hell they just could put the web effect onto the flux grenades so they would be used alot more or just create a new kind of AV grenade which does no damage but provides the web effect. But as it stands now tanking requires no skill and thats a fact. even a stupid sica is hard to kill due to its mobility and hardener spam. Hell i even saw gunnlogis with 3 shield hardeners and a armor hardener as a failsafe if their shields get down to 0
Then we agree that simple measures could fix gameplay, still allowing tanks to tank, as we talked about back when we both tanked in SI, but would actually allow players to utilise the "Wave of opportunities" that Wolfman intended. I agree with need for even just a simple grenade rather than a completely new weapon or piece of equipment, atleast as a temporary measure.
I still disagree about tanks and skill, sure previously it took skill for avoiding AV grenades but it was rather simple, just very expensive. Anyone running a single hardener rather than abusing broken fits will know it takes a lot more than ever before but at the same time is much more satisfying.
Yup, I've run that fit, it's ridiculous, the 2:1 fit is just as bad, though you give the enemy like 15 seconds to hurt your shields, that's all they'll do.
King of the Forums // Vehicle Specialist for Hire.
Buffing or Debuffing Vehicles or AV will never fix anything.
|
Jason Pearson
3609
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Posted - 2013.12.23 16:31:00 -
[9] - Quote
Ryme Intrinseca wrote:AV was only nerfed because tanks were supposed to be made weaker. We now know that with three hardeners plus the speed to escape if necessary tanks are no weaker than they were. So the solution is simply to restore AV to 1.6 levels.
So the only fit to run as a tank would be triple hardeners?
A+, CCP please take this guy on as lead designer for vehicles. Are you ******* ********? How does that even appear to be a good idea.
If one Hardener is fair, but three is not, which is the wrong one? Which is the one we remove and which is the one we balance around? If you don't know the answer here it is, you remove the three hardeners, you balanced around the one.
King of the Forums // Vehicle Specialist for Hire.
Buffing or Debuffing Vehicles or AV will never fix anything.
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