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[Suggestion] - Cloaking Stats and Mechanics

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Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 5997	Posted - 2013.12.22 19:23:00 - [1] - Quote Originally Posted on: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1638467#post1638467 It would be great if you guys were to implement something like this. This is so that scouts can still be viable without being marginalized by other suits like the Logistics. Maken Tosch wrote: mollerz wrote: That would be good. I liked your bringing up the covert ops cloak especially. If they develop this so you have to hold a scanner like device while running around cloaked it will be an instant loser. It is a shame they, once again, forged on with a dead in the water design. One more thing I won't use meant for scouts Just like when scanners came out.. oops! Can't fit them due to no CPU. Regardless, I hope they overhaul everything much better for infantry than they did for vehicles. Actually, I like the idea of the cloak being something you can hold in your hand while running cloaked but then that will depend on how it's implemented. Do I have to keep it in my hand in order for the cloak to remain active or can I just swap to a weapon and keep the cloak active so long as I don't do any attacks such detonating REs or stabbing with the nova knives? I would very much prefer the latter if it's possible. But yeah, here are my proposed stats for the cloak: Standard Cloak (can fit on all suit classes and tiers) CPU: 350 PG: 80 Cooldown Upon Deactivation: 30 Seconds Cloak Stability Rating while Moving: 4 (moderate-high shimmer) Cloak Stability Rating while Sprinting: 2 (high shimmer) Bonuses when fitted on Scout: -99% reduction on CPU/PG usage and a +3 Cloak Stability Rating for moving and sprinting. Covert Ops Cloak (can only be fitted on specialty Covert Ops Scout or Prototype Scout) CPU: 350 PG: 80 Cooldown: 15 seconds Cloak Stability Rating while Moving: 10 (no shimmer) Cloak Stability Rating while Sprinting: 8 (very low shimmer) Bonus when fitted on Prototype Scout: -99% reduction on CPU/PG usage Bonus when fitted on Covert Ops Specialty Scout: -99% reduction on CPU/PG usage with -25% reduction to cooldown timer Skill Prerequisite for Standard Cloak: Cloaking Equipment Skill Book Level 1 ( -5% reduction to cooldown timer per level ) Skill Prerequisites for Covert Ops Cloak: Cloaking Equipment Skill Book Level 5 ( -5% reduction to cooldown timer per level ) Cloaking Equipment Proficiency Skill Book Level 1 ( -3% reduction to cooldown timer per level ) What do you guys think? EDIT: I forgot to mention that in order to train into the Covert Ops scout, you should have to train up at least one of the racial scouts up to prototype level first as a prerequisite. OK, CCP. When are knives finally going to be improved?
deepfried salad gilliam Sanguine Knights 321	Posted - 2013.12.22 19:44:00 - [2] - Quote I think cloaks should be able to fit on all suits (with exception of special like covert ops ones) But it should be to the point of sacrifing lows for pg/cpu mods and std mods up top no equipment and a std rifle no sidearm Just extremely impractical and more shimmer "May God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ give you grace and peace" - Second Corinthians chapter one verse two.
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 6001	Posted - 2013.12.22 19:49:00 - [3] - Quote deepfried salad gilliam wrote: I think cloaks should be able to fit on all suits (with exception of special like covert ops ones) But it should be to the point of sacrifing lows for pg/cpu mods and std mods up top no equipment and a std rifle no sidearm Just extremely impractical and more shimmer That's the whole point of my post. If you look at the stats I proposed, the cloak will already take up more than half of the CPU and PG that the Logistics Mk.0 has. This way, the LogiBros won't be able to marginalize the Scouts while the Scouts get a nice hefty fitting bonus which will only cost like this... CPU = 350 -> 1 PG = 80 -> 1 That is just nothing for the scout. But since the Logi won't have this bonus, he will have to sacrifice a lot in order to cloak which means it makes the Logi a little bit useless. Also, the reason I want it as an equipment is to reduce the threat of invisible heavies with HMGs since heavies don't have equipment slots. OK, CCP. When are knives finally going to be improved?
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 6004	Posted - 2013.12.22 23:33:00 - [4] - Quote ninja bump OK, CCP. When are knives finally going to be improved?
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 6026	Posted - 2013.12.24 05:47:00 - [5] - Quote A little concept sketch of what the equipment item should look like. Although I wouldn't mind it being something that utilizes the holographic screen on your left arm. http://katahu.deviantart.com/art/Sketch-Dust514-Cloak-421442706 OK, CCP. When are knives finally going to be improved?
Mobius Wyvern Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 4239	Posted - 2013.12.24 05:48:00 - [6] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: Originally Posted on: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1638467#post1638467 It would be great if you guys were to implement something like this. This is so that scouts can still be viable without being marginalized by other suits like the Logistics. Maken Tosch wrote: mollerz wrote: That would be good. I liked your bringing up the covert ops cloak especially. If they develop this so you have to hold a scanner like device while running around cloaked it will be an instant loser. It is a shame they, once again, forged on with a dead in the water design. One more thing I won't use meant for scouts Just like when scanners came out.. oops! Can't fit them due to no CPU. Regardless, I hope they overhaul everything much better for infantry than they did for vehicles. Actually, I like the idea of the cloak being something you can hold in your hand while running cloaked but then that will depend on how it's implemented. Do I have to keep it in my hand in order for the cloak to remain active or can I just swap to a weapon and keep the cloak active so long as I don't do any attacks such detonating REs or stabbing with the nova knives? I would very much prefer the latter if it's possible. But yeah, here are my proposed stats for the cloak: Standard Cloak (can fit on all suit classes and tiers) CPU: 350 PG: 80 Cooldown Upon Deactivation: 30 Seconds Cloak Stability Rating while Moving: 4 (moderate-high shimmer) Cloak Stability Rating while Sprinting: 2 (high shimmer) Bonuses when fitted on Scout: -99% reduction on CPU/PG usage and a +3 Cloak Stability Rating for moving and sprinting. Covert Ops Cloak (can only be fitted on specialty Covert Ops Scout or Prototype Scout) CPU: 350 PG: 80 Cooldown: 15 seconds Cloak Stability Rating while Moving: 10 (no shimmer) Cloak Stability Rating while Sprinting: 8 (very low shimmer) Bonus when fitted on Prototype Scout: -99% reduction on CPU/PG usage Bonus when fitted on Covert Ops Specialty Scout: -99% reduction on CPU/PG usage with -25% reduction to cooldown timer Skill Prerequisite for Standard Cloak: Cloaking Equipment Skill Book Level 1 ( -5% reduction to cooldown timer per level ) Skill Prerequisites for Covert Ops Cloak: Cloaking Equipment Skill Book Level 5 ( -5% reduction to cooldown timer per level ) Cloaking Equipment Proficiency Skill Book Level 1 ( -3% reduction to cooldown timer per level ) What do you guys think? EDIT: I forgot to mention that in order to train into the Covert Ops scout, you should have to train up at least one of the racial scouts up to prototype level first as a prerequisite. Unlimited duration along with this? Yes, please! Amidst the blue skies A link from past to future The sheltering wings of the protector
Cat Merc Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 4960	Posted - 2013.12.24 05:55:00 - [7] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: deepfried salad gilliam wrote: I think cloaks should be able to fit on all suits (with exception of special like covert ops ones) But it should be to the point of sacrifing lows for pg/cpu mods and std mods up top no equipment and a std rifle no sidearm Just extremely impractical and more shimmer That's the whole point of my post. If you look at the stats I proposed, the cloak will already take up more than half of the CPU and PG that the Logistics Mk.0 has. This way, the LogiBros won't be able to marginalize the Scouts while the Scouts get a nice hefty fitting bonus which will only cost like this... CPU = 350 -> 1 PG = 80 -> 1 That is just nothing for the scout. But since the Logi won't have this bonus, he will have to sacrifice a lot in order to cloak which means it makes the Logi a little bit useless. Also, the reason I want it as an equipment is to reduce the threat of invisible heavies with HMGs since heavies don't have equipment slots. You're forgetting logis aren't the only suit. That PG is more than my Assault has at max skills, and that CPU leaves me with 47 CPU. Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives. Tuna > Tacos
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 6026	Posted - 2013.12.24 06:05:00 - [8] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: Maken Tosch wrote: deepfried salad gilliam wrote: I think cloaks should be able to fit on all suits (with exception of special like covert ops ones) But it should be to the point of sacrifing lows for pg/cpu mods and std mods up top no equipment and a std rifle no sidearm Just extremely impractical and more shimmer That's the whole point of my post. If you look at the stats I proposed, the cloak will already take up more than half of the CPU and PG that the Logistics Mk.0 has. This way, the LogiBros won't be able to marginalize the Scouts while the Scouts get a nice hefty fitting bonus which will only cost like this... CPU = 350 -> 1 PG = 80 -> 1 That is just nothing for the scout. But since the Logi won't have this bonus, he will have to sacrifice a lot in order to cloak which means it makes the Logi a little bit useless. Also, the reason I want it as an equipment is to reduce the threat of invisible heavies with HMGs since heavies don't have equipment slots. You're forgetting logis aren't the only suit. That PG is more than my Assault has at max skills, and that CPU leaves me with 47 CPU. Well, perhaps the numbers can be adjusted to accommodate for that as well, but there still needs to be a hefty-enough CPU/PG usage so that no other class can potentially marginalize the scout class in terms of terms of cloaking advantages. Bad enough most assaults and logis can already do most of the work a scout can do. What CPU/PG stats would you suggest? OK, CCP. When are knives finally going to be improved?
Cat Merc Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 4972	Posted - 2013.12.24 13:49:00 - [9] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: Cat Merc wrote: Maken Tosch wrote: deepfried salad gilliam wrote: I think cloaks should be able to fit on all suits (with exception of special like covert ops ones) But it should be to the point of sacrifing lows for pg/cpu mods and std mods up top no equipment and a std rifle no sidearm Just extremely impractical and more shimmer That's the whole point of my post. If you look at the stats I proposed, the cloak will already take up more than half of the CPU and PG that the Logistics Mk.0 has. This way, the LogiBros won't be able to marginalize the Scouts while the Scouts get a nice hefty fitting bonus which will only cost like this... CPU = 350 -> 1 PG = 80 -> 1 That is just nothing for the scout. But since the Logi won't have this bonus, he will have to sacrifice a lot in order to cloak which means it makes the Logi a little bit useless. Also, the reason I want it as an equipment is to reduce the threat of invisible heavies with HMGs since heavies don't have equipment slots. You're forgetting logis aren't the only suit. That PG is more than my Assault has at max skills, and that CPU leaves me with 47 CPU. Well, perhaps the numbers can be adjusted to accommodate for that as well, but there still needs to be a hefty-enough CPU/PG usage so that no other class can potentially marginalize the scout class in terms of terms of cloaking advantages. Bad enough most assaults and logis can already do most of the work a scout can do. What CPU/PG stats would you suggest? That's up to CCP. You should also note that cloaking device CPU/PG shouldn't be 1/1 for scouts. It should be like a normal module. Say 35/5 or some ****. Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives. Tuna > Tacos
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 6252	Posted - 2014.01.04 20:17:00 - [10] - Quote I was thinking about posting my own ideas on other cloak types as well. Like the Octopus camo that changes your suit to match the environment and a Spy-cloak that changes your chevron to match the enemy's. What ideas do you guys suggest for that? It's preferable to post stats if you can think of some good numbers. This way, there is variety for cloaks. OK, CCP. When are knives finally going to be improved? *CLOSED BETA VETERAN SINCE REPLICATION BUILD*

Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 6259	Posted - 2014.01.04 21:14:00 - [11] - Quote No one has suggestions yet for the octopus cloak or spy cloak? OK, CCP. When are knives finally going to be improved? *CLOSED BETA VETERAN SINCE REPLICATION BUILD*
Draxus Prime BurgezzE.T.F Public Disorder. 2349	Posted - 2014.01.04 21:46:00 - [12] - Quote octupus cloak lets u fire "Imagine a world where hypothetical thoughts didn't exist" -Draxus Prime Closed Beta Vet Nova Knife Proficeiney 5 \o/
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 6260	Posted - 2014.01.04 21:50:00 - [13] - Quote Draxus Prime wrote: octupus cloak lets u fire I guess that makes sense. All the suit is doing is changing its color. That said, an octopus cloak shouldn't take as much CPU/PG compared to other cloaks since it's not doing anything intense like the predator-style cloak does. OK, CCP. When are knives finally going to be improved? *CLOSED BETA VETERAN SINCE REPLICATION BUILD*
Maken Tosch Edimmu Warfighters Gallente Federation 6489	Posted - 2014.01.18 07:35:00 - [14] - Quote I just had a thought now that we have new stats to work with. I revised the cloak CPU/PG stat in the post below to better reflect a standard cloak that would likely fit a wide range of suits but still leave all except the scout suits gimped when fitted. Quote: Let's assume for the sake of this argument that the standard cloak equipment will cost about 60 PG and 270 CPU (my own guess) to fit on any non-scout suit. That means that only the Logistics will likely be the non-scout to have any remote chance of effectively fitting this thing if it's given something like a 5%-per-level fitting bonus for equipment. That will only be a 25% bonus overall for fitting the cloak. That is very limited compared to the 75% that scouts would get for the cloak specifically. Let's do the math. 25% of 60PG and 270CPU is 15PG and 68CPU eliminated leaving the cloak with 45PG and 202CPU needed to fit on the Logi. Even for a Logi, 45/202 is a lot of resources taken up. The Logi will have to sacrifice quite a bit to make the cloak fit even competitive and even then the logi is better off just being support for the squad. 75% of 60PG and 270CPU is 45PG and 202CPU eliminated leaving the cloak with only 15PG and 68CPU needed to fit on the scout. If you look at the scout suits that are receiving a buff to PG and CPU already, that leaves the scouts with a home-field advantage over even the logis in the cloak department and still leave plenty of room to fit many other things that make it very competitive. Of course, there should also be a covert ops cloak that would only be for specialty covert ops scout suits that give even bigger benefits, but that would mean investing a lot into a new suit that is better than even the proto scouts. What do you think? The 5% equipment bonus for logis is just something I made up for the sake of comparison. OK, CCP. When are knives finally going to be improved? *CLOSED BETA VETERAN SINCE REPLICATION BUILD*
Driftward Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 641	Posted - 2014.01.22 23:43:00 - [15] - Quote I think that the fitting is not terrible. could be tweaked just a bit lower for the standard level cloak. However, I think that a problem for cloaks is going to be in the profile reduction bonus that they are giving. It's too much to give on top of the scout base profile. It's essentially making scouts not only invisible but unscannable as well. Personally I don't think that will be great for gameplay. I think the extra bonus on top of what scouts already have in terms of profile.....could be OP. Actually it probably is. A proto caldari scout (I'm assuming it has a role of anti-scout scout) can pick up other scouts passively. Add 1 complex precision module to cancel out 1 enhanced dampener. 2 precision to pick up scouts running between 1 complex dampener to 1 complex + 1 enhanced. (sorry hard to conceptualize in text) By using a cloak though, a scout can use 1 complex dampener and have the equivalent of two. With a profile of 18dB they would then only be scanned by a Cal scout running 3 precision enhancers (out of 4 highs) or a Gal Logi with a duvolle focused scanner. Not only are you cloaked but you cant get scanned either....
Aizen Intiki OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 732	Posted - 2014.01.23 00:28:00 - [16] - Quote tiercide, then Cov Ops cloak reduction on Scout suits, or any other type of stealth suits. "Hello, world!" lol, sounds like something a whore lover would say Alt of the great Godin I like chocolate ^___^
Aizen Intiki OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 732	Posted - 2014.01.23 00:30:00 - [17] - Quote Driftward wrote: I think that the fitting is not terrible. could be tweaked just a bit lower for the standard level cloak. However, I think that a problem for cloaks is going to be in the profile reduction bonus that they are giving. It's too much to give on top of the scout base profile. It's essentially making scouts not only invisible but unscannable as well. Personally I don't think that will be great for gameplay. I think the extra bonus on top of what scouts already have in terms of profile.....could be OP. Actually it probably is. A proto caldari scout (I'm assuming it has a role of anti-scout scout) can pick up other scouts passively. Add 1 complex precision module to cancel out 1 enhanced dampener. 2 precision to pick up scouts running between 1 complex dampener to 1 complex + 1 enhanced. (sorry hard to conceptualize in text) By using a cloak though, a scout can use 1 complex dampener and have the equivalent of two. With a profile of 18dB they would then only be scanned by a Cal scout running 3 precision enhancers (out of 4 highs) or a Gal Logi with a duvolle focused scanner. Not only are you cloaked but you cant get scanned either.... Well, that will only happen on Gal scouts, which is kinda the point. "Hello, world!" lol, sounds like something a whore lover would say Alt of the great Godin I like chocolate ^___^
Maken Tosch Edimmu Warfighters Gallente Federation 6533	Posted - 2014.01.23 00:50:00 - [18] - Quote We'll no longer have to speculate on what the fitting requirements will be now that the stats are public. However, debate must continue on the practicality or viability of the stats posted by CCP. OK, CCP. When are knives finally going to be improved? *CLOSED BETA VETERAN SINCE REPLICATION BUILD*
Maken Tosch Edimmu Warfighters Gallente Federation 6533	Posted - 2014.01.23 00:52:00 - [19] - Quote @Driftward Isn't avoiding scans the whole point of training and specializing into Gallente scouts? I feel the bonuses are appropriate given the major investment that proto scout suits demand. OK, CCP. When are knives finally going to be improved? *CLOSED BETA VETERAN SINCE REPLICATION BUILD*


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