DUST Search - Guys, don't bother with FW

Absoliav wrote:

KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:

I-Shayz-I wrote:

1. I'm sorry, but I can't do this in public matches: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FDY23qFGpw4&feature=youtube_gdata_player

2. You can't buy a boundless HMG that only costs as much fitting space as a MH-82 with isk.

3. LP items are just like AUR items. They cost less skill to use than isk variants.

Maybe it isn't worth it for std gear, but the prototype stuff is definitely worth it to me.
Also, what if the rewards gave you 500 at lvl 4, 1000 at lvl 6, and 2500 at lvl 10. Would it be worth it then? (these values are the original chart divided by 10)

Vulpes Dolosus wrote:

There's still specialist equipment and weapons that have better stats/lower fitting requirements.

Unless the lowered-requirement or lowered-fitting-cost items worth 6x or more the price of regular versions, then its still not worth it. I explained and covered this in the thread I linked.

One of the biggest problems you'll hear from Protobears is that the fitting cost to run Proto is extremely high, resulting in most Proto fits only going partially proto, while filling in the gaps with ADV or STD, no one can go full proto, but with the specialist weapons it allows some more free fitting space to maybe even go full proto.

The value of the new proto specialist LP gear cannot be compared to standard proto, the edge it gives goes beyond simply doing one more point of damage, it up for the individual player to decide if it's worth the lost of ISK, I would much rather spend a day recovering my losses from LP than a month getting one skill to level five for a proto suit when I could have gotten it in 5 hours running FW.

Gû¦Gû+Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of the threads // Forum alt Gû¦Gû+

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KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI 7574	Posted - 2013.12.22 07:21:00 - [1] - Quote Say there were 2 equivalent STD fittings, one is made of regular ISK gear, while the other is made of the faction store counterparts of that gear. With the ISK rewards from a regular public contract you can buy between 6-33 full fits of the STD ISK fitting. With the LP rewards you can buy between 1-3 full fits (depending on standing) of the STD LP fitting. The crappy ISK rewards you get from sitting in the MCC and doing nothing will still buy you more than the LP you get after grinding through and winning 200 matches and getting level 10 standing. For player market profits: Players will need to value faction store items several times more than their ISK counterparts just to make FW worth it. If you have lv 10 standing, spend all of your victory LP from one battle on faction gear, and then sell that gear, it has to be valued 3x as much as regular items just to make about 100k on player market, if valued 4x value is about 140k, for 5x value 177k, for 6x value 213k. When your standing is level 10, players have to value faction store gear to be worth at least 6x the value of regular gear just to make a ISK comparable to a public contract skirmish's ISK rewards. There is no reason to spend all that time in FW trying to get your standings up; a regular skirmish battle will likely be more profitable (win or lose) then a level 10 standing victory. Full explanation and analysis here Gû¦Gû+Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of the threads // Forum alt Gû¦Gû+
Kasote Denzara A Vulture 1481	Posted - 2013.12.22 07:24:00 - [2] - Quote idgaf. FW is tied to Eve Online's FW. You can either clutch to ISK or fight for a faction in FW. This is all your choice. "Go ahead and dual tank. My Commando dual ganks." -Kasote Denzara The Traitor, in the name of "freedom".
calisk galern BurgezzE.T.F Public Disorder. 1573	Posted - 2013.12.22 07:24:00 - [3] - Quote KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: Say there were 2 equivalent STD fittings, one is made of regular ISK gear, while the other is made of the faction store counterparts of that gear. With the ISK rewards from a regular public contract you can buy between 6-33 full fits of the STD ISK fitting. With the LP rewards you can buy between 1-3 full fits (depending on standing) of the STD LP fitting. The crappy ISK rewards you get from sitting in the MCC and doing nothing will still buy you more than the LP you get after grinding through and winning 200 matches and getting level 10 standing. For player market profits: Players will need to value faction store items several times more than their ISK counterparts just to make FW worth it. If you have lv 10 standing, spend all of your victory LP from one battle on faction gear, and then sell that gear, it has to be valued 3x as much as regular items just to make about 100k on player market, if valued 4x value is about 140k, for 5x value 177k, for 6x value 213k. When your standing is level 10, players have to value faction store gear to be worth at least 6x the value of regular gear just to make a ISK comparable to a public contract skirmish's ISK rewards. There is no reason to spend all that time in FW trying to get your standings up; a regular skirmish battle will likely be more profitable (win or lose) then a level 10 standing victory. Full explanation and analysis here their are limited uses for the faction war store, and I have been enjoying them. I have no interest in enlightening anyone, just keep in mind the FW store has uses.
Nocturnal Soul Immortal Retribution 1321	Posted - 2013.12.22 07:24:00 - [4] - Quote +1 its a real eye opener. "The trick to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources..." Albert Einstein
dogmanpig black market bank 84	Posted - 2013.12.22 07:27:00 - [5] - Quote yea but a rare very are better than the same thing from the isk only and most LP is basically AUR gear without RL moneys. with that said i still like isk versions over the LP in almost all cases. the injector is ok, not really worth it but 100% armor over the isk proto's 80%. You hate me, I hate you. Lets keep it that way. Level 8 1/10 Forum alt. "Its worth half a penny and a reach around"
jerrmy12 kahoalii Krullefor Organization Minmatar Republic 168	Posted - 2013.12.22 07:30:00 - [6] - Quote LP needs to be at least 1,000 LP at least 1 recuruit link 5 to 11 mil isk per 100k recuruit
fawkuima juggalo Eternal Beings 285	Posted - 2013.12.22 07:34:00 - [7] - Quote Quote: Guys, don't bother with FW unless your really really good.... or a winimatard or gaylenteils ---OFFICIAL LOGISTICS REGISTRY BOARD/ H.O.F.----
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI 7575	Posted - 2013.12.22 07:41:00 - [8] - Quote fawkuima juggalo wrote: Quote: Guys, don't bother with FW unless your really really good.... or a winimatard or gaylenteils Even if you win every battle, still not worth it. Basically sacrificing your own financial good to help a action. Not good business on the factons' part, they need to pay way more LP. Gû¦Gû+Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of the threads // Forum alt Gû¦Gû+
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics League of Infamy 798	Posted - 2013.12.22 07:43:00 - [9] - Quote Giving up on FW is not the answer for many of us because of the EvE link, RP, etc. However, to really make it shine this sort of thing does need to be highlighted to the devs. Also, I think the best change aside from modifying the LP scheme to make it more fair, is to just make the LP store items better, and add more than you absolutely can't get anywhere else. I'm of the opinion that a lot of the current store items are just placeholders, easy AUR variants they could throw in there for now with minimal effort while they develop the real items that would be in high demand for the player market. If not, then CCP has totally blown it and needs to reconsider what they are doing IMO. "The line between disorder and order lies in logistics" -Sun Tzu Amarr victor!
Absoliav Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 98	Posted - 2013.12.22 07:44:00 - [10] - Quote The appeal of FW isn't in the cost, it's in the tactical edge it gives you, for those with low SP it gives them a chance to stand with the big league Protos while still giving them a fair disadvantage, at the same time, Proto players can get more use of slightly superior gear from the LP store, it's never been about the price, it's about getting whats better than what you have, and only the LP store can provide that for you, I would much rather do FW to get early access to a full Proto fit with the cost of a few million ISK in three days than spend the next month grinding for a Proto nanite injector.

dogmanpig black market bank 84	Posted - 2013.12.22 07:46:00 - [11] - Quote KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: fawkuima juggalo wrote: Quote: Guys, don't bother with FW unless your really really good.... or a winimatard or gaylenteils Even if you win every battle, still not worth it. Basically sacrificing your own financial good to help a action. Not good business on the factons' part, they need to pay way more LP. yea since winning has way bigger factor then WP. lose but had 4k wp well that gets 70ish LP. win with 0wp nets 326+LP. so just AFK in the FW side winning most to net some easy LP but even that is less in value then the isk you would get for AFKing pub matches. You hate me, I hate you. Lets keep it that way. Level 8 1/10 Forum alt. "Its worth half a penny and a reach around"
jerrmy12 kahoalii Krullefor Organization Minmatar Republic 168	Posted - 2013.12.22 07:46:00 - [12] - Quote Absoliav wrote: The appeal of FW isn't in the cost, it's in the tactical edge it gives you, for those with low SP it gives them a chance to stand with the big league Protos while still giving them a fair disadvantage, at the same time, Proto players can get more use of slightly superior gear from the LP store, it's never been about the price, it's about getting whats better than what you have, and only the LP store can provide that for you, I would much rather do FW to get early access to a full Proto fit with the cost of a few million ISK in three days than spend the next month grinding for a Proto nanite injector. i have to win 2 matches for 2 fittings but i never hack or be in frontlines because of the grind involved recuruit link 5 to 11 mil isk per 100k recuruit
Absoliav Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 98	Posted - 2013.12.22 07:48:00 - [13] - Quote John Demonsbane wrote: Giving up on FW is not the answer for many of us because of the EvE link, RP, etc. However, to really make it shine this sort of thing does need to be highlighted to the devs. Also, I think the best change aside from modifying the LP scheme to make it more fair, is to just make the LP store items better, and add more than you absolutely can't get anywhere else. I'm of the opinion that a lot of the current store items are just placeholders, easy AUR variants they could throw in there for now with minimal effort while they develop the real items that would be in high demand for the player market. If not, then CCP has totally blown it and needs to reconsider what they are doing IMO. I agree, the current items in the LPS are clearly just the beginning, we can obliviously expect more coming to the store as more updates arrive.
dogmanpig black market bank 84	Posted - 2013.12.22 07:50:00 - [14] - Quote jerrmy12 kahoalii wrote: Absoliav wrote: The appeal of FW isn't in the cost, it's in the tactical edge it gives you, for those with low SP it gives them a chance to stand with the big league Protos while still giving them a fair disadvantage, at the same time, Proto players can get more use of slightly superior gear from the LP store, it's never been about the price, it's about getting whats better than what you have, and only the LP store can provide that for you, I would much rather do FW to get early access to a full Proto fit with the cost of a few million ISK in three days than spend the next month grinding for a Proto nanite injector. i have to win 2 matches for 2 fittings but i never hack or be in frontlines because of the grind involved wonder how long it takes to those wins or the loses to add up to those 2 win. and then 2 fitting that could be lost in a single match. looks like a bigger grind there. You hate me, I hate you. Lets keep it that way. Level 8 1/10 Forum alt. "Its worth half a penny and a reach around"
Green Living Scions of Athra 1102	Posted - 2013.12.22 07:51:00 - [15] - Quote Faction Warfare is fueling my new found Gallente proto scout addiction, since I'm only skilled to advanced.
ZeHealingHurts HurtingHeals Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State 727	Posted - 2013.12.22 07:51:00 - [16] - Quote Hmm. Ok. Now, does this still apply with advanced and/or proto gear? I mean, that's the only thing i'd buy out of there anyway. HOLY ****! I've just realized I haven't bought a single thing from the LP store and i've played nothing but FW since 1.7 dropped. CCP, Geth Infiltrator is OP! plz nerf.
I-Shayz-I I-----I 1707	Posted - 2013.12.22 07:51:00 - [17] - Quote 1. I'm sorry, but I can't do this in public matches: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FDY23qFGpw4&feature=youtube_gdata_player 2. You can't buy a boundless HMG that only costs as much fitting space as a MH-82 with isk. 3. LP items are just like AUR items. They cost less skill to use than isk variants. Maybe it isn't worth it for std gear, but the prototype stuff is definitely worth it to me. Also, what if the rewards gave you 500 at lvl 4, 1000 at lvl 6, and 2500 at lvl 10. Would it be worth it then? (these values are the original chart divided by 10) Links: List of Most Important Threads I make logistics videos!
Absoliav Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 98	Posted - 2013.12.22 07:51:00 - [18] - Quote jerrmy12 kahoalii wrote: i have to win 2 matches for 2 fittings but i never hack or be in frontlines because of the grind involved Yeah, the best thing to do if you're a little worried about ISK is to play a support role in matches, I try to minimize financial losses as best I can, and supporting my team seems to keep me alive most of the time.
jerrmy12 kahoalii Krullefor Organization Minmatar Republic 168	Posted - 2013.12.22 07:52:00 - [19] - Quote dogmanpig wrote: jerrmy12 kahoalii wrote: Absoliav wrote: The appeal of FW isn't in the cost, it's in the tactical edge it gives you, for those with low SP it gives them a chance to stand with the big league Protos while still giving them a fair disadvantage, at the same time, Proto players can get more use of slightly superior gear from the LP store, it's never been about the price, it's about getting whats better than what you have, and only the LP store can provide that for you, I would much rather do FW to get early access to a full Proto fit with the cost of a few million ISK in three days than spend the next month grinding for a Proto nanite injector. i have to win 2 matches for 2 fittings but i never hack or be in frontlines because of the grind involved wonder how long it takes to those wins or the loses to add up to those 2 win. and then 2 fitting that could be lost in a single match. looks like a bigger grind there. yup, the only thing i use without cowering is core repair to recuruit link 5 to 11 mil isk per 100k recuruit
crazy space 1 GunFall Mobilization Covert Intervention 2119	Posted - 2013.12.22 08:02:00 - [20] - Quote It's almost like being rewarding for how well you in battle would be better design Oh wait dust used to be like that... Getting enough isk to fit out 30 standard suits for doing nothing? Why? And no one even bothers to hack the points in domination anymore, there is nothing for winning, you just get eaten alive. Might as well fight as if it's a long distance spawn version of ambush...

fawkuima juggalo Eternal Beings 286	Posted - 2013.12.22 08:04:00 - [21] - Quote KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: fawkuima juggalo wrote: Quote: Guys, don't bother with FW unless your really really good.... or a winimatard or gaylenteils Even if you win every battle, still not worth it. Basically sacrificing your own financial good to help a action. Not good business on the factons' part, they need to pay way more LP. i kno... but you should like my post anyway. ---OFFICIAL LOGISTICS REGISTRY BOARD/ H.O.F.----
Vulpes Dolosus SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 522	Posted - 2013.12.22 08:23:00 - [22] - Quote There's still specialist equipment and weapons that have better stats/lower fitting requirements. Dropship Specialist Kills- Incubus: 4; Pythons: 0; Other DS: 25; Tanks: 22 Gêå2 12/22
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI 7576	Posted - 2013.12.22 08:27:00 - [23] - Quote I-Shayz-I wrote: 1. I'm sorry, but I can't do this in public matches: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FDY23qFGpw4&feature=youtube_gdata_player 2. You can't buy a boundless HMG that only costs as much fitting space as a MH-82 with isk. 3. LP items are just like AUR items. They cost less skill to use than isk variants. Maybe it isn't worth it for std gear, but the prototype stuff is definitely worth it to me. Also, what if the rewards gave you 500 at lvl 4, 1000 at lvl 6, and 2500 at lvl 10. Would it be worth it then? (these values are the original chart divided by 10) Vulpes Dolosus wrote: There's still specialist equipment and weapons that have better stats/lower fitting requirements. Unless the lowered-requirement or lowered-fitting-cost items worth 6x or more the price of regular versions, then its still not worth it. I explained and covered this in the thread I linked. Gû¦Gû+Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of the threads // Forum alt Gû¦Gû+
Mobius Wyvern Isuuaya Tactical Caldari State 4201	Posted - 2013.12.22 08:30:00 - [24] - Quote KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: I-Shayz-I wrote: 1. I'm sorry, but I can't do this in public matches: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FDY23qFGpw4&feature=youtube_gdata_player 2. You can't buy a boundless HMG that only costs as much fitting space as a MH-82 with isk. 3. LP items are just like AUR items. They cost less skill to use than isk variants. Maybe it isn't worth it for std gear, but the prototype stuff is definitely worth it to me. Also, what if the rewards gave you 500 at lvl 4, 1000 at lvl 6, and 2500 at lvl 10. Would it be worth it then? (these values are the original chart divided by 10) Vulpes Dolosus wrote: There's still specialist equipment and weapons that have better stats/lower fitting requirements. Unless the lowered-requirement or lowered-fitting-cost items worth 6x or more the price of regular versions, then its still not worth it. I explained and covered this in the thread I linked. Yeah, the LP cost of getting Faction gear in this game is close to what it costs to get Deadspace gear for ISK in EVE, which is far superior. Amidst the blue skies A link from past to future The sheltering wings of the protector
Absoliav Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 99	Posted - 2013.12.22 08:39:00 - [25] - Quote KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: I-Shayz-I wrote: 1. I'm sorry, but I can't do this in public matches: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FDY23qFGpw4&feature=youtube_gdata_player 2. You can't buy a boundless HMG that only costs as much fitting space as a MH-82 with isk. 3. LP items are just like AUR items. They cost less skill to use than isk variants. Maybe it isn't worth it for std gear, but the prototype stuff is definitely worth it to me. Also, what if the rewards gave you 500 at lvl 4, 1000 at lvl 6, and 2500 at lvl 10. Would it be worth it then? (these values are the original chart divided by 10) Vulpes Dolosus wrote: There's still specialist equipment and weapons that have better stats/lower fitting requirements. Unless the lowered-requirement or lowered-fitting-cost items worth 6x or more the price of regular versions, then its still not worth it. I explained and covered this in the thread I linked. One of the biggest problems you'll hear from Protobears is that the fitting cost to run Proto is extremely high, resulting in most Proto fits only going partially proto, while filling in the gaps with ADV or STD, no one can go full proto, but with the specialist weapons it allows some more free fitting space to maybe even go full proto. The value of the new proto specialist LP gear cannot be compared to standard proto, the edge it gives goes beyond simply doing one more point of damage, it up for the individual player to decide if it's worth the lost of ISK, I would much rather spend a day recovering my losses from LP than a month getting one skill to level five for a proto suit when I could have gotten it in 5 hours running FW.
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI 7576	Posted - 2013.12.22 08:48:00 - [26] - Quote Absoliav wrote: KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: I-Shayz-I wrote: 1. I'm sorry, but I can't do this in public matches: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FDY23qFGpw4&feature=youtube_gdata_player 2. You can't buy a boundless HMG that only costs as much fitting space as a MH-82 with isk. 3. LP items are just like AUR items. They cost less skill to use than isk variants. Maybe it isn't worth it for std gear, but the prototype stuff is definitely worth it to me. Also, what if the rewards gave you 500 at lvl 4, 1000 at lvl 6, and 2500 at lvl 10. Would it be worth it then? (these values are the original chart divided by 10) Vulpes Dolosus wrote: There's still specialist equipment and weapons that have better stats/lower fitting requirements. Unless the lowered-requirement or lowered-fitting-cost items worth 6x or more the price of regular versions, then its still not worth it. I explained and covered this in the thread I linked. One of the biggest problems you'll hear from Protobears is that the fitting cost to run Proto is extremely high, resulting in most Proto fits only going partially proto, while filling in the gaps with ADV or STD, no one can go full proto, but with the specialist weapons it allows some more free fitting space to maybe even go full proto. The value of the new proto specialist LP gear cannot be compared to standard proto, the edge it gives goes beyond simply doing one more point of damage, it up for the individual player to decide if it's worth the lost of ISK, I would much rather spend a day recovering my losses from LP than a month getting one skill to level five for a proto suit when I could have gotten it in 5 hours running FW. Would you be willing to pay 6x or more the price of regular proto so you can fit more? Do you think most players would be willing to pay that much more? because if they're not, then FW players will be screwed by the player market. Also keep in mind the 6x is just to make i comparable to a regular skirmish payout, and that's just IF you have level 10 standing. Getting the skill to get proto is much more worth it then using lower-SP-requirement faction gear in the long run; its more sustainable to supply, and the skill bonus can make a difference. Gû¦Gû+Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of the threads // Forum alt Gû¦Gû+
Absoliav Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 99	Posted - 2013.12.22 09:00:00 - [27] - Quote KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: Would you be willing to pay 6x or more the price of regular proto so you can fit more? Do you think most players would be willing to pay that much more? because if they're not, then FW players will be screwed by the player market. Also keep in mind the 6x is just to make i comparable to a regular skirmish payout, and that's just IF you have level 10 standing. Getting the skill to get proto is much more worth it then using lower-SP-requirement faction gear in the long run; its more sustainable to supply, and the skill bonus can make a difference. Yes, cause attaining ISK is easy, gaining SP isn't, there is a cap to how much SP one can collect in a week, but not one for ISK, most FW matches only cost me around 80K worth in ISK, and I can still come out with a positive K/D (not a very high one though), while a regular match usally gives me something like 150K even if I lose, while my lost for those matches only cost me around 40K-90K depending on how carried away I get with dealing with frustrating enemies, I can easily balance the cost of FW by playing smart and controlling my spending. Most players I've seen don't seem to put much thought into budgeting their battles, which is bad money management.
Callidus Vanus State Patriots Templis De Novo 155	Posted - 2013.12.22 09:01:00 - [28] - Quote The LP store gear is just Aurum gear without the Aurum apart from a select few weapons, nanite injectors and nano hives which are better then the prototype isk equivalent. If you are reading this then you are on the forums, leave immediately to retain your enjoyment of Dust 514.
HYENAKILLER X AGGRESSIVE TYPE 411	Posted - 2013.12.22 09:08:00 - [29] - Quote Kasote Denzara wrote: idgaf. FW is tied to Eve Online's FW. You can either clutch to ISK or fight for a faction in FW. This is all your choice. "Idgaf" That s*** is awsome. Also proto suits are 155 lp and 15k isk. Not sure yoy know the deal with all of this. You are welcome for my leadership *Proven Aggressive Type
Operative 1171 Aajli Bragian Order Amarr Empire 918	Posted - 2013.12.22 09:23:00 - [30] - Quote I don't. Problem solved. Bue bye DUST. One feature at a time baby! Read the sig. Do your part. Join the revolution. Sabotage FW. Help this game burn! BURN DUST 2014

Necandi Brasil DUST BRASIL S.A Covert Intervention 573	Posted - 2013.12.22 10:29:00 - [31] - Quote What about loot ? I run mlt stuff with my alt, sometimes I get good loot, like Proto guns or/and proto dropsuits... Tanks 514! Cheap, fast, Indestrucbible and you see tankers telling it's balanced... Just makes you want to quit this BS


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