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KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI
7572
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Posted - 2013.12.22 06:08:00 -
[1] - Quote
I did some analysis of faction warfare rewards, LP costs of faction store gear, the results are pretty poopy.
[Comparison] A purely ISK-bought standard fitting: STD Minmatar logistics 2X basic shield extended Basic armor plate Basic armor repair module STD mass driver STD RE STD active scanner STD repair tool Cost: 11,850 ISK
Now the same fitting in pure LP-bought faction store items (republic and federal): STD Minmatar logistics 2X basic shield extended Basic armor plate Basic armor repair module STD mass driver STD RE STD active scanner STD repair tool Cost: 200 LP (140 Republic / 60 Federal)
ISK rewards of public contracts on average range from 70-400K depending on your performance; this is not exact, but based on experience. 70k represents absolute laziness (like AFK farming), and 400k represents performing extremely well. With the ISK rewards you can buy between 6-33 full fits of the STD ISK fitting.
LP rewards of FW contracts on average range from 326-659 depending on your standing. This is based on these numbers released by CCP. With the LP rewards you can buy between 1-3 full fits (depending on standing) of the STD LP fitting.
[Findings] The crappy ISK rewards you get from sitting in the MCC and doing nothing will still buy you more than the LP you get after grinding through and winning 200 matches and getting level 10 standing.
[But what about the player market?] The argument could be made that once the player market is out that the LP items will make FW worth it since they could be sold to others for a high price, but most LP items are just lowered-SP-requirement variants, and lower-fitting-cost variants; I don't know how much others would be willing to pay for those, but I'd personally never pay more than twice as much for them. So we established that at lv 10 standing you get 659 LP per win, and you can by 3 standard LP fits whose ISK-equivalent cost 35,550 ISK (11,850 x 3 fits).
If you spend your 659 LP on the faction store on 3 fits worth of standard gear, and then sell it for ISK to me (I'm only willing to pay 2x the price of regular items), then when you turn that LP into ISK you get 71,100 ISK (35,550 ISK x 2 since I'm willing to pay 2x the price of the regular equivalent).
So IF you have level 10 standing, IF you won the FW battle, and you sell the faction store gear you spent all your winning LP on to me, then you can make about 70k ISK from selling the full product of your victory to me... or you could just AFK-farm in public battles and make perhaps even more ISK, and you wouldn't even need to win.
Players will need to value faction store items several times more than their ISK counterparts just to make FW worth it. If valued 3x as much as regular items then you can make bout 100k on player market, if valued 4x value is about 140k, for 5x value 177k, for 6x value 213k. When your standing is level 10, players have to value faction store gear to be worth at least 6x the value of regular gear just to make a ISK comparable to a public contract skirmish's ISK rewards.
[Conclusion] There is no reason to spend all that time in FW trying to get your standings up; a regular skirmish battle will likely be more profitable (win or lose) then a level 10 standing victory. LP rewards need to be substantially increased, like multiply both wining and losing LP by 8.
Gû¦Gû+Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of the threads // Forum alt Gû¦Gû+
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KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI
7576
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Posted - 2013.12.22 08:31:00 -
[2] - Quote
Draco Cerberus wrote:Battle rewards of all types other than PC need a rework, ISK vs Risk is completely skewed. Obviously you should be able to pull a better reward from any battle with better gear ie more functionality/survivability but such is often not the case. Even with the better rewards offered by the Pub matches it seems worthwhile to point out that one side wins and the other loses and Scotty is often drunk enough to make all the mercs on one side fresh out of the Academy but for a smattering of proto users, while the other team is fully squaded and plays PC on a regular basis. Risk vs reward then tanks for the side from the Academy and skyrockets for the PC players just by being in the battle. Higher Risk should entail higher payouts, and in this case the main risk is that Scotty is going to take a dump on you.
As for the number of suit that you can purchase if you do exceptionally in a Pub match, invariably it comes down to how many you can afford to replace after the match even if you win the WP ticker. I say this after being in several matches today where I was running only standard and advanced gear, and seeing first hand just how bad it can get. There is no way to really cut your losses other than to run starter or bpo suits if you are up against a stacked team. You will die more often and you will lose. Plain and simple. As a logi the problem can be a lot harder because without your good kit you stand to make far less wp than if you were to run even advanced gear. While you may be able to replace 4 or more suits if running standard suits in pub matches you will be receiving mid grade pay as well and still be receiving the equivalent pay to a WIN in FW batlle with only enough isk to cover your 1-3 fits listed. Certainly not what you want if you are looking to maximize your earning potential.
FW payouts though are terrible. There is no way at all to recoup losses, or to consider funding your gear by running faction gear.
You should make a thread about public battle rewards, and propose an alternative system.
Gû¦Gû+Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of the threads // Forum alt Gû¦Gû+
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KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI
7582
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Posted - 2013.12.22 12:39:00 -
[3] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote:IIRC ISK per LP is actually lower with STD and ADV items.
Try this calculation with proto. Can you do it please? I had to overcome a lot of laziness to make this thread.
Gû¦Gû+Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of the threads // Forum alt Gû¦Gû+
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KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI
7584
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Posted - 2013.12.22 22:38:00 -
[4] - Quote
Any more thoughts?
Gû¦Gû+Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of the threads // Forum alt Gû¦Gû+
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KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI
7593
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Posted - 2013.12.23 11:45:00 -
[5] - Quote
Draco Cerberus wrote:Draco Cerberus wrote:KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:Any more thoughts? Release a P2P market? This actually might make sense if you take into consideration the lower SP cost to use all the faction items. Basically it evens out the need for the user of the items to have the SP to use the regular gear, but until we have the ability to sell stuff this still is a lose lose system that we have in place, look forward to a market soon (not TM). I addressed the player market in the OP, players will have to value faction gear at least 6x more than regular gear just to be as profitable as an average skirmish payout, and that's just for level 10 standing.
Gû¦Gû+Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of the threads // Forum alt Gû¦Gû+
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KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI
7666
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Posted - 2013.12.29 23:21:00 -
[6] - Quote
The-Errorist wrote:I don't see FW being more profitable than public contracts unless something changes. Agreed
Gû¦Gû+Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of the threads // Forum alt Gû¦Gû+
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KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI
7691
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Posted - 2013.12.30 23:17:00 -
[7] - Quote
FW should be more challenge, but higher rewards.
Gû¦Gû+Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of the threads // Forum alt Gû¦Gû+
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KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI
7720
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Posted - 2014.01.02 15:08:00 -
[8] - Quote
Any more thoughts?
Gû¦Gû+Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of the threads // Forum alt Gû¦Gû+
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KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI
7769
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Posted - 2014.01.04 23:09:00 -
[9] - Quote
Rozencrutz89 wrote:Honestly it is kinda annoying that they turned FW into an ISK sink more than anything, the lack of ISK rewards in it make no sense. EVE missions rewarded you with LP for the corp/faction you did it for as well as ISK, why can't we do that. If they added ISK rewards in addition to LP, then the problem would be fixed. Only the winners should get ISK though, or else no one would do public battles. Another alternative is to have FW ISK rewards half that of a regular public battle.
Gû¦Gû+Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of the threads // Forum alt Gû¦Gû+
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KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI
7790
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Posted - 2014.01.05 14:54:00 -
[10] - Quote
Middas Betancore wrote: U are correct LP rewards per match is less isk value than public matches,to buy items such as basic shield extender and G38 rifles yields very poor return,however some the items u buy with LP are not available for isk. One would assume that FW is not intended to be a mercs sole occupation and that FW play should be augmented with public and PC games. This leads into a diverse play experience as u may find yourself playing a couple of dom, couple of cal FW an ammar FW, then turning up to defend or attack a PC district (and hopefully a few rounds of PVE soon). You could be using a mix of isk and LP to create all manner of fits, some items u don't have skills for, weapons that have less fitting, equipment with better attributes (State Wyrkomi injector, 100% armour upon revival!!).
In conclusion a small increase in LP payout may occur, but i don't believe it is necessary, but what may be interesting and fun to have is LP store discount sales, or FW events with increased payout/standing increase. I did cover the items in LP store not available for ISK, but for that to make it worth it, those items have to be valued an extraordinary amount more than regular items just to make them worth it. I don't think the slight superiority of a very few number of items is enough to make it worth it, and the difference between the quality of those few LP items and the ISK ones aren't great enough to make FW worth it.
Gû¦Gû+Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of the threads // Forum alt Gû¦Gû+
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KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI
7790
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Posted - 2014.01.05 15:05:00 -
[11] - Quote
Middas Betancore wrote:Surely their uniqueness and exclusivity raises their value enough, i myself play FW for the interest of helping to organise bigger groups of players alongside eve orbital support, the LP on both games is just a pleasant side effect. By my (crude) calculations of ISK vs LP, LP items would have to be valued 6 times more than ISK items just to make the payouts comparable to an public Skirmish, and that's just for when your standings is level 10. I wouldn't pay 6 times the price of a prototype regular injector for an LP one.
Gû¦Gû+Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of the threads // Forum alt Gû¦Gû+
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KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI
8039
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Posted - 2014.01.13 22:33:00 -
[12] - Quote
Any more thoughts?
Gû¦Gû+Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of threads // Forum alt Gû¦Gû+
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