DUST Search - From a Huge "FanBoi"- DUST just... lacks something.

Kasira Vorrikesh wrote:

IrishWebster wrote:

TL:DR?

DUST is hours of waiting and grinding with very little reward to show for it. Other games are quicker to reward and more fun to play. Why keep playing DUST? Responses to this article will prompt another in depth look at how to fix DUST, and it's other glaring problem.

-Irish

You make some good points. I don't really disagree with anything; but I will say the whole waiting bit you speak of, combined with difficulty in earning ISK consistently, is why people snipe. Or at least why I snipe. I know everyone hates snipers and thinks they're useless parasites blah blah blah, but if you think about it, it's by far the most efficient way to play. First, you don't need a squad. Second, it's low-risk; the number of times I die twice in one battle is so low, I'm so unused to it, that I go into a fetal position and want to slit my wrists in shame whenever it does happen. So, point is, I end up dying less than once a day on average. I've gone on streaks where I kill ~300 people between deaths; I've made some dimwitted mistakes lately and I don't get those long stretches anymore, but I digress. Sniping without a doubt saves money in the long run; millions and millions of ISK. Now for the third and final benefit: you don't have to run to or from objectives.

The only thing patently wrong with sniping is that CCP has intentionally ruined at least half the maps for it, depending on which side you're playing from. Not to mention unreliable rendering at a distance which may or may not allow you to see a countersniper before they see you. So even something as simple and straightforward as sniping, CCP has managed to drain some fun from. That said, it's the only thing I can stand in this game. Maybe you should give it a serious go.

As for how to fix Dust in general? I don't really care much anymore, because I can't expect anything to happen in a reasonable amount of time. PvE? Ha! I'll believe that when I see it. Dust might sort itself out sometime within the next five years, but I won't have the luxury of waiting until it does.


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IrishWebster Molon Labe. Public Disorder. 103	Posted - 2013.12.20 22:19:00 - [1] - Quote I've been playing Halo and CoD for the last few days. Yep, I know, DUST isn't meant to be anything like those two games. But DUST IS supposed to FUN, is it not? Now, CoD, to me, is way less fun than Halo. It's a twitch shooter, which, more often than not, rewards the a-hole with the best ping-to-server time with the kill. It's frustrating more than it is enjoyable. My personal opinion is that Halo is more fun- it's a high health, longer time to kill shooter than CoD, and the game as a whole gives players a much more even playing field. It's more often skill versus skill than people spawning directly in front or behind you, LMG's with heartbeat sensors and target finders, etc. So where then would DUST lie? If Halo, Battlefield 4 and CoD had a test tube baby, I would call it DUST. It has elements, both good and bad, from all three games. Obnoxiously large maps from Battlefield 4, and very dedicated roles and systems for operating and bringing down enemy vehicles. Non-modular weapons from Halo, futuristic sci-if setting for a universe and a generally longer TTK than most shooter games. Skills that function as much more complex and game changing perks from CoD, with a still generally short TTK (shorter than Halo, but longer than CoD), and a lot of bad spawning, like CoD. Ugh. Spawns. In any case, those three games are still hugely fun to play for thousands of people. DUST... isn't. It's admittedly a niche shooter, whose aim isn't to capture the entire market (at least not at first), but to provide an experience to players who are looking for a little something... else. CoD is too twitchy. Battlefield is too big, and Halo is too childish. But what is DUST? From my time playing all four games this week, I feel like DUST has combined all of the frustrating things about all three of these games, and very few of the fun things. I feel like I'm constantly running TO the fight, instead of participating IN it. I'm constantly being destroyed by Proto stompers with 30 million plus SP, even when I have 8.5 million well-spent SP. I feel like sometimes, even the noobs get off a ridiculous kill that my fit should have been able to tank while I popped them because they twitched faster than me when I was running between cover. Now with tanks running around in 5+ gangs, I have to look both ways before I cross the street... once before I want to cross, on e while I'm crossing and once on the other side. Tanks are fast, and I am slow... even with a 6.2 MPS sprint speed. I have to wait a half an hour for a game to end to squad up with anyone from my Corporation, or God forbid, play a game solo and rely on blueberries who I'm sure have come together in a pub somewhere and signed a pact to beat themselves over the head with an iron frying pan until retardation ensues. Then I play a 10-20 minute game (the time it takes for 2-3 games in Halo, CoD or BF4) and get a teeny, tiny amount of SP and relative ISK reward compared to what I risked (and often sacrificed). It all boils down to... WAITING. Endless, rewardless, interminable WAITING. I'm waiting to find a squad so I can be viable. I'm waiting for a match to start. I'm waiting forever to spawn. I'm waiting while I run 300+ meters (which, if it took me that frickin long to run 300 meters as a Marine, I'd be told to go f*** my self and put on BCP- fat boy workout program) to a firefight, waiting for he objective to get hacked. Then I'm waiting as I run another 300+ meters to the next objective, waiting an eternity for contact that we may or may not get because the enemy is going for another objective, and go to cross the street only to be run down by a tank as he boosts his frickin 50 lb. NOS bottle. I'm IN the military. I KNOW tanks are fast. But in a video game... perhaps we shouldn't be shooting for realism in some places while upholding completely unrealistic mechanics in others. In any case, at the end of this frustrating eternity of a match, we get thousands of SP, and hundreds of thousands of ISK proportionally rewarded based upon our performance, our victory or loss and how much ISK we risked versus how much we cost other players. Or, wait... is it that we get a microscopic amount of SP BARELY based upon our performance and mostly based upon our time passively spent in a game (can't say battle, as most of the time we're running either to or from an actual firefight), coupled with an equally microscopic amount of ISK that makes the only viable way for a player to EARN ISK is to grind in militia starter fits, or, if you're lucky and got in before the BPO removal, you're grinding in BPO suits. In any case, you're grinding. You're waiting. You're waiting to play, to fight, to invest the less than meager winnings you earn from a prolonged and annoying match up with people far more virtually skilled than you, and grinding your way slowly, PAINFULLY up the ranks until you're the Proto stomper. It just isn't fun. The point is, in this, the bastard child of BF4, CoD and Halo, we just grind. We "play," but for some reason it feels so much more the chore to "play" DUST than it does to do actual chores. My wife asked me to take out the trash last night, and I felt relieved that I could tell my corp-mates (who are the only thing that keep me coming back at this point) that I had to leave to go do something for my wife. This game could be SO fun. More rewards for a game well played, less grinding, less waiting. Am I the only one who thinks so? If I get a good response on this thread, I'll write another one about how to fix the issues I see, and the other side of DUST's glaring problem, as I see it. TL:DR? DUST is hours of waiting and grinding with very little reward to show for it. Other games are quicker to reward and more fun to play. Why keep playing DUST? Responses to this article will prompt another in depth look at how to fix DUST, and it's other glaring problem. -Irish
IrishWebster Molon Labe. Public Disorder. 104	Posted - 2013.12.20 23:37:00 - [2] - Quote Necandi Brasil wrote: DUST is missing deepness ... MMO part specially... - PvE, P2PMarket, More links with eve... I still like playing, I really dunno why ... SHHH... I don't want to give away part two. We have to solve part one, first. Lol
IrishWebster Molon Labe. Public Disorder. 104	Posted - 2013.12.21 00:46:00 - [3] - Quote Heals Vaginas wrote: Part of the issue of nothing is really being added, since may we have had 0 new game modes, no new vehicles, 1 dropsuit(commando), 5 weapons(plasma, SCR, CR, RR, flaylock). 2 new map(several buildings and outpost to reconfigure existing also). Most other shooter have all their stuff from the scratch, then add mappacks to keep players interested. Dust is living on a continuous development style, which is what keeps most of us hooked, we know the potential the game has. It's very slow tho in terms of console games. Returning players who tried at some point in open beta or maybe after May and want to see if its ready yet, don't see anything changed other than a few menus. I don't think the grind is actually bad, waiting isn't bad either. Rewards can be added now with ease using the LP store which has the ability to add cooler versions of stuff. CCP could use this to their advantage, asking players to pitch in thoughts on what they'd like, thinking your part of the game is part of a games success. PC is also crap, boring and pointless. Nothing to lure new players in, and enough to bore the **** out of the existing player base. PC should have been conducted EVE side, making us pawns in their chess game. Our main source of good income should be filling mercenary roles for Eve based corps, to help them take not only the space around the system, but control of the planets also. Maybe not that things aren't being added, but that the basic set of gear, i.e. all racial dropsuits, weapons and vehicles, does not yet exist in the game. In either case, I don't think that for most people the problem is lack if content. There are still TONS of weapons, vehicles and dropsuits to play with. But the time that it takes just to actually get to use any of them is astronomical. Most things don't even have militia variants for people to even TRY the respective piece of gear or vehicle.
IrishWebster Molon Labe. Public Disorder. 107	Posted - 2013.12.21 05:15:00 - [4] - Quote Kasira Vorrikesh wrote: IrishWebster wrote: TL:DR? DUST is hours of waiting and grinding with very little reward to show for it. Other games are quicker to reward and more fun to play. Why keep playing DUST? Responses to this article will prompt another in depth look at how to fix DUST, and it's other glaring problem. -Irish You make some good points. I don't really disagree with anything; but I will say the whole waiting bit you speak of, combined with difficulty in earning ISK consistently, is why people snipe. Or at least why I snipe. I know everyone hates snipers and thinks they're useless parasites blah blah blah, but if you think about it, it's by far the most efficient way to play. First, you don't need a squad. Second, it's low-risk; the number of times I die twice in one battle is so low, I'm so unused to it, that I go into a fetal position and want to slit my wrists in shame whenever it does happen. So, point is, I end up dying less than once a day on average. I've gone on streaks where I kill ~300 people between deaths; I've made some dimwitted mistakes lately and I don't get those long stretches anymore, but I digress. Sniping without a doubt saves money in the long run; millions and millions of ISK. Now for the third and final benefit: you don't have to run to or from objectives. The only thing patently wrong with sniping is that CCP has intentionally ruined at least half the maps for it, depending on which side you're playing from. Not to mention unreliable rendering at a distance which may or may not allow you to see a countersniper before they see you. So even something as simple and straightforward as sniping, CCP has managed to drain some fun from. That said, it's the only thing I can stand in this game. Maybe you should give it a serious go. As for how to fix Dust in general? I don't really care much anymore, because I can't expect anything to happen in a reasonable amount of time. PvE? Ha! I'll believe that when I see it. Dust might sort itself out sometime within the next five years, but I won't have the luxury of waiting until it does. I originally began my DUST career sniping. Let's just say... it's something I'm comfortable with. Sniping in this game has been and will continue to be completely broken. I don't see it getting fixed any time soon. Literally millions of SP wasted on that one. Even as broken as it is, I agree- outside of starter fits and blueprints, it's nearly the only way to make ISK reliably unless you're running with a full squad of Proto stompers, that which most people can not afford to do. This game is simply too much if a grind. I like the idea of risk vs. reward, but the reward part is quite broken. If I was able to do amazingly well and go 20-2 in my Proto Gallente fit, those two losses, at about 115,000 ISK each, easily put me in the red for net ISK gain. There is no way to reliably run the good stuff. My average game is more like 15-6 or so. Even my advanced fit at 50,000 ISK is STILL far and beyond keeping my profits in the black. The risk is always greater than the reward, and thus the grind. If I could get a blue tag, if be willing to throw some math out there on how to reliably and safely fix the issue, but hey... I'm just intelligent. I'm not no grandiose special mcsmarty-pants economist that y'all got yerselves over thar at cee-cee-pee-pee er nuthin. Lol
IrishWebster Molon Labe. Public Disorder. 108	Posted - 2013.12.21 08:10:00 - [5] - Quote Lorhak Gannarsein wrote: DJINN Marauder wrote: Yeah I agree. Dust has only one thing ill ever say good things about.. It's social system. The chat channels and corp Channels are amazing. Every other fps makes you have to be in a squad to talk to people... Not dust however. That's awesome. Everything else though? It's lacking in quality. This game has so much potential. So much potential that I think is being wasted. Too much time is being taken for things... While others are completely ignored and forgotten. Yes dust lacks something.. It lacks... Immersion. This game is a lobby shooter. Integrate DUST with Facebook. Problem solved? Your posting privileges should be revoked. Shame on you.
IrishWebster Molon Labe. Public Disorder. 109	Posted - 2013.12.21 08:24:00 - [6] - Quote DJINN Marauder wrote: Yeah I agree. Dust has only one thing ill ever say good things about.. It's social system. The chat channels and corp Channels are amazing. Every other fps makes you have to be in a squad to talk to people... Not dust however. That's awesome. Everything else though? It's lacking in quality. This game has so much potential. So much potential that I think is being wasted. Too much time is being taken for things... While others are completely ignored and forgotten. Yes dust lacks something.. It lacks... Immersion. This game is a lobby shooter. However, I feel that although the social system is good and getting better, it's also a NECESSITY. It's about impossible to play this game well by your self. While I love that the game so highly encourages teamwork, I think we need a lone-wolf mode pretty badly. We also need a squad sync mode, on the other side of that coin. But honestly, I still feel like one of the two main issues with DUST is its long boring moments between action (aka the "grind"), and... DUN DUN DUN DUN!! Part two awaits.
IrishWebster Molon Labe. Public Disorder. 113	Posted - 2013.12.23 02:22:00 - [7] - Quote Ninja Troll wrote: Interesting read and I agree with most of your points. I recently started DUST because I wanted something to prepare me for Bungie's DESTINY. It's still a year away and DUST is the closest thing to it on PS3 that I could find. The game was fun at first(1.6), but lately it's more about getting SP than actual enjoyment. The weekly SP Cap does seem too low, although I think boosters are the main profit for CCP. Boosters more than likely are their main profit, yes. I had an idea for an annual aurum respec a while back, sort of like a PLEX for EVE, but I heard nothing about it. It's too bad that we can't get DEVs attention on threads like this. It'd be really motivating to see a blue tag.