DUST Search - [Request] Complete the removal and/or modification of BPOs

Zeylon Rho wrote:

I'm meh about any solution that involves removing BPOs in anyway.

The ONLY reason I paid for Merc packs/Aurum was to get Permanent items that were advertised as permanent. That was the draw of the purchase.

To pay "real" money for a "digital" item that is expendable is incredibly ludicrous to me. If you're going to buy in-game items, then they should be permanent - that's the only way to justify it to me. If Dust is around X years, then your purchase was still useful. Spending real money for expendable items just seems like flushing money down a toilet.

So any measure that takes permanent items and gives you "fake money" to buy expendables as some sort of remuneration is playerrape. It's taking what was the ONLY reason for many of us to spend money and shitting all over our choices. It's not enough that they already basically sold us a faulty bill of goods (re: item stats being wrong, etc. on merc pack purchases), removing them is a bridge too far.

Consider this, if a player purchased packs only to get permanent items, and bothered to try to "get them all", they could've effectively given CCP hundreds of dollars already... just for BPOs, just for the promise of those permanent items. If they take those out, then they're effectively defecating all over players that supported them more than anyone else did. Vets would be entirely justified in quitting the game entirely at that point; because if they'll take hundreds of dollars and flush it - they clearly can't be trusted with anything remotely resembling investment of time or money in the future.

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Jaysyn Larrisen OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 537	Posted - 2013.12.20 20:11:00 - [1] - Quote CCP Team and Dust community... BLUF: Recommend we complete the removal or modification to BPOs as soon as possible. This is essentially the "rip the band-aid off" request. Discussion: We know that the curtailment of BPOs in their current form is a significant issue in regards to the upcoming Dust market and eventual partial or full merge with the EVE economic engine. The Dev's have made this clear and they are also trying to balance player equities - my opinion is that they are, in fact, sensitive to the friction BPO removal causes and they are trying to balance long term game developement with customer desires. We have already seen the deletion of BPOs from the market and pulling them from PSN bundles. The vehicle module related BPOs have been pulled. CCP is fairly mum on the infantry BPOs and their future but I think we all see the writing on the wall. To that end, I propose we remove the remaining BPOs in their current form at the earliest possible point and move on. Courses of Action: 1) Remove all remaining BPOs with an AUR exchange similar to how the vehicle modules were exchanged. An acceptable AUR amount would need to be determined for LAVs, weapons, suits, modules, and equipment that accompanied Merc/Veteran/Elite packs. Pros: Same method that was used with vehicle mods. Simplest technical solution; quickest implementation. Cons: Will create signifanct negative backlash if not handled well (but this will happen no matter how you do it). 2) Modify all remaining BPOs to be non-equippable items. These BPOs would generate a set quantity of items over a specific time period which would be made available for use by the owner (or eventually trade / re-sell). The examples would be a Dren AR BPO produces 20x rifles every 7 days; the Blood Raider Saga LAV BPO produces 7x vehicles every 7x days. This would clearly need to be tuned to an appropriate quantity of production. On the day the block of items are produced it's cue'd up in the character selection screen for assignment similar to how promotional items are distributed now. Further, the BPOs themselves should be allowed to be sold / traded once the Dust market is online. Pros: Does not remove purchased BPOs from the game and brings them much more closely in line with how BPOs work in EVE which further supports future market integration. Prevents, or at least mitigates, player community negative responses and provides enduring benefits for the players and supports market depth. Cons: The production amount would need to be carefully monitored to acheive the market balancing effect the removal of equipable BPOs is intended to achieve. Likely a more difficult technical implementation (I have no Idea how difficult to implement this would actually be). Lastly, there will be alarm from the players that didn't have this option when they were removed with the vehicle restructuring. There may be no simple solution to this; possible offer similar vehicle BPOs for a limited time for AUR that would function in the new manner. Recommendation: Course of Action 2...modify existing BPOs as non-equippable items with limited production capability and implement this at first possible opportuntiy but no later than MAR14. This is my basic recomemdation for moving on with the BPO issue and posturing the game for continued expansion. No solution is going to be without friction and I have several BPOs that I take full advantage of..i understand the impact of this. I do want to offer a community based set of options to the Dev team, CPM, and players writ large. The remaining BPOs will one day have to change or go away...I think it's better if we have some input prior to that event.
Jaysyn Larrisen OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 537	Posted - 2013.12.20 20:11:00 - [2] - Quote Reserved.
Draco Cerberus BurgezzE.T.F Public Disorder. 617	Posted - 2013.12.20 21:31:00 - [3] - Quote No, until I can manufacture my gear for my mercs in Eve please ball up the suggestion in the pit of your stomach and let it cause an ulcer. If it were a BPO for a Boundless Combat Rifle I could understand your request but it is all in fact Meta 1 gear. Boo hoo, someone killed me with his Exile Assault Rifle and used his militia grenade blueprint to blow me up...grow a sac dude. PS your idea about modifying BPOS sucks. Here's one, they need to be manufactured and researched, sold to Eve players for isk so that they can use the blue prints to make the gear we use. LogiGod earns his pips
CLONE117 planetary retaliation organisation 528	Posted - 2013.12.20 21:38:00 - [4] - Quote as long as free default mlt fits remain unaffected.
KA24DERT TeamPlayers Negative-Feedback 306	Posted - 2013.12.20 21:47:00 - [5] - Quote This is an excellent stop-gap measure until Eve style manufacturing can be implemented for Dust equipment.
Jaysyn Larrisen OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 539	Posted - 2013.12.20 22:16:00 - [6] - Quote Draco Cerberus wrote: No, until I can manufacture my gear for my mercs in Eve please ball up the suggestion in the pit of your stomach and let it cause an ulcer. If it were a BPO for a Boundless Combat Rifle I could understand your request but it is all in fact Meta 1 gear. Here's an idea, they need to be manufactured and researched, sold to Eve players for isk so that they can use the blue prints to make the gear we use. This is a market dependent idea I expect would be a better solution. I appreciate the feedback. I don't necessarily disagree with you and the recommendation I'm making puts on at least on a parallel path. Eventually the BPOs we own may need to be sold to an EVE player to complete the manufacturing cycle but that is a very long way off and I'm proposing something that we can take advantage of now. What if you take my modification suggestion and add to it the idea that you need to pay a small ISK amount, ostensibly for raw materials and production. The cost would need to be the barest minimum and paid to an NPC station manufacturing entity to access the use of the BPO. Cost might be on the level of one equivalent item from the market (1k for a rifle) and that manufacturing cost nets you the weekly production quantity.
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 1275	Posted - 2013.12.20 23:12:00 - [7] - Quote KA24DERT wrote: This is an excellent stop-gap measure until Eve style manufacturing can be implemented for Dust equipment. Agreed. CCP wants to move away from the idea that BPOs cause gear to poof into existence. They want gear to be created, used, and destroyed. However in order to reach this goal, we need the ability to create gear, and to do that we need materials. Since in EVE: BPC + Materials >> Ships and Equipment BPOs >> BPCs However without a industry system we need to simplify this (temporarily) to work like this Buy BPC (ISK) >> Gear or BPOs + Time >> BPCs >> Gear With the advent of an industry system this would evolve as such Buy Gear (from Players) or Buy BPC (From Player or NPC) + Materials (From Player or through Industry) >> Gear or BPO + Time >> BPC (From BPO) + Materials (From Player or through Industry) >> Gear ADS Reports - Defining Racial Themes
Zeylon Rho Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 3092	Posted - 2013.12.21 00:44:00 - [8] - Quote I'm meh about any solution that involves removing BPOs in anyway. The ONLY reason I paid for Merc packs/Aurum was to get Permanent items that were advertised as permanent. That was the draw of the purchase. To pay "real" money for a "digital" item that is expendable is incredibly ludicrous to me. If you're going to buy in-game items, then they should be permanent - that's the only way to justify it to me. If Dust is around X years, then your purchase was still useful. Spending real money for expendable items just seems like flushing money down a toilet. So any measure that takes permanent items and gives you "fake money" to buy expendables as some sort of remuneration is playerrape. It's taking what was the ONLY reason for many of us to spend money and shitting all over our choices. It's not enough that they already basically sold us a faulty bill of goods (re: item stats being wrong, etc. on merc pack purchases), removing them is a bridge too far. Consider this, if a player purchased packs only to get permanent items, and bothered to try to "get them all", they could've effectively given CCP hundreds of dollars already... just for BPOs, just for the promise of those permanent items. If they take those out, then they're effectively defecating all over players that supported them more than anyone else did. Vets would be entirely justified in quitting the game entirely at that point; because if they'll take hundreds of dollars and flush it - they clearly can't be trusted with anything remotely resembling investment of time or money in the future. Join my cult.
Jaysyn Larrisen OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 540	Posted - 2013.12.21 00:55:00 - [9] - Quote Zeylon Rho wrote: I'm meh about any solution that involves removing BPOs in anyway. The ONLY reason I paid for Merc packs/Aurum was to get Permanent items that were advertised as permanent. That was the draw of the purchase. To pay "real" money for a "digital" item that is expendable is incredibly ludicrous to me. If you're going to buy in-game items, then they should be permanent - that's the only way to justify it to me. If Dust is around X years, then your purchase was still useful. Spending real money for expendable items just seems like flushing money down a toilet. So any measure that takes permanent items and gives you "fake money" to buy expendables as some sort of remuneration is playerrape. It's taking what was the ONLY reason for many of us to spend money and shitting all over our choices. It's not enough that they already basically sold us a faulty bill of goods (re: item stats being wrong, etc. on merc pack purchases), removing them is a bridge too far. Consider this, if a player purchased packs only to get permanent items, and bothered to try to "get them all", they could've effectively given CCP hundreds of dollars already... just for BPOs, just for the promise of those permanent items. If they take those out, then they're effectively defecating all over players that supported them more than anyone else did. Vets would be entirely justified in quitting the game entirely at that point; because if they'll take hundreds of dollars and flush it - they clearly can't be trusted with anything remotely resembling investment of time or money in the future. This is why I'm advocating for BPOs to be modified and NOT removed. Seems like a good middle ground solution is for the BPOs to produce expendables but at a manageable rate. This would also still retain a very high trade value for the BPOs once the market went live.


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