DUST Search - Discussion on balancing red line rail tanks

Heathen Bastard wrote:

Considering I kill redline railtanks with some frequency they are rather at risk. its a lessened risk, but still a risk none the less.

My main gun is the XT-201 heavy missile turret. if I get that into position, it's even worse than a rail tank for you, know why? highest up angling in the game, and the bastard acts like a flak cannon, and they toss you all over the map. I use the railtank when I'm bored and want to see chunks of MLT tank scrubs go flying with every shot, the fact that you end up in my sights is just bad luck. Hell I'm not a great shot with the thing, so dropships are a pretty low priority unless you're trying to hotdrop onto my friends or your door gunners are giving them the business.

Just so you know, an assault dropship is actually my greatest fear. mostly because if they get into position, I CAN'T shoot back. So maybe you're just a terrible pilot. burn to the ceiling, go over them, drop in behind them since your aerial redline is about 2-3x the size of the infantry/ground vehicle redline and pump some missiles/railshots into their tailpipe.

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Pvt Numnutz Black Phoenix Mercenaries 457	Posted - 2013.12.21 01:28:00 - [31] - Quote Xender17 wrote: I could hardly put a dent in a ds when it had its actives though? Are you asking me? Most of the time I'm helping my team when suddenly boom 2080 shield HP reduced to 65 my hardener won't help me take the second shot so I have to evade. Now where to evade to, usually its the exact direction the hit indicator is pointing because it still says the exact opposite from where I was hit, rather confusing in an intense moment like this. Let's say I get away and the RLRT misses the second shot now I look all over the map for 5-10 minutes looking for a rail turret or tank, then I find one in the redline, so now I sit there waiting for the tank to dip its toes in the water, 10 minutes later, OMG he went 10m out of the redline!!!! **** it I'm gonna try and kill him, shot hit shot hit shot hit, in the redline shot hit shot hit shot hit damn I can't go that far in the red! Leave redline and now he won't even come near the edge. Great fight bro....................................... Also why would a RLRT shoot a dropship with hardeners on? It has the element of surprise, just wait till its trying to fly away and boom.
Nitrobeacon Freek Coalition Freek Alliance 151	Posted - 2013.12.21 01:30:00 - [32] - Quote Actually CCP should make blaster turrets shoot the sky, they lose optimal quick anyways, so just go high up. Dropships are not supposed to leave tanks defenseless, nor be better
Alena Ventrallis The Neutral Zone 348	Posted - 2013.12.21 01:31:00 - [33] - Quote Pvt Numnutz wrote: Alena Ventrallis wrote: Suppose we only allowed the rail turrets to look up at a 20 degree angle? Think rail tanks should be able to engage a dropship on a fair fight, however the fight isn't fair when I can't get above them or even near them to fight them. When I spot a RLRT I usually have to wait as high as rendering will allow and wait for them to get brave enough to come onto the field. Most of the time that never happens. If we limit how high they can look, that gives dropships the advantage over rail tanks. Rails will be for killing other tanks, blasters can fight dropships. Nice little trifecta.
Nitrobeacon Freek Coalition Freek Alliance 151	Posted - 2013.12.21 01:32:00 - [34] - Quote ^
Sir Snugglz Red Star. EoN. 185	Posted - 2013.12.21 01:33:00 - [35] - Quote Increase the time we can be in enemy redline to 1 minute. more than enough time to kill them tanks..
THUNDERGROOVE ZionTCD Public Disorder. 411	Posted - 2013.12.21 01:34:00 - [36] - Quote Jetti Daxcide wrote: well from what i've seen rail tanks are the only thing that can take out a dropship so stop whining and use an afterburner My hull costs more than a fit gunlogi with an advanced rail and can three hit my DS with hardeners on. That's BS considering redline rail tanks have 0 risk. ZionTCD Director & Ammar Loyalist Amarr Sentinel \| Amarr Logi \| *Losematar* Scout What is a signature?
Pvt Numnutz Black Phoenix Mercenaries 457	Posted - 2013.12.21 01:35:00 - [37] - Quote Alena Ventrallis wrote: Pvt Numnutz wrote: Alena Ventrallis wrote: Suppose we only allowed the rail turrets to look up at a 20 degree angle? Think rail tanks should be able to engage a dropship on a fair fight, however the fight isn't fair when I can't get above them or even near them to fight them. When I spot a RLRT I usually have to wait as high as rendering will allow and wait for them to get brave enough to come onto the field. Most of the time that never happens. If we limit how high they can look, that gives dropships the advantage over rail tanks. Rails will be for killing other tanks, blasters can fight dropships. Nice little trifecta. Rail tanks can't aim very high anyway, they have the least elevation out of the 3. My problem isn't with rail tanks, its that they have an invincible area to deny me the map. That I can't possibly hope to fight or counter. So all my months of flying dropships and honing my skills and millions of sp wasted because lol sica with a rail in the red
Pvt Numnutz Black Phoenix Mercenaries 457	Posted - 2013.12.21 01:36:00 - [38] - Quote Sir Snugglz wrote: Increase the time we can be in enemy redline to 1 minute. more than enough time to kill them tanks.. I would also accept this as a solution.
Aizen Intiki Hell's Gate Inc 592	Posted - 2013.12.21 01:38:00 - [39] - Quote Pvt Numnutz wrote: Sir Snugglz wrote: Increase the time we can be in enemy redline to 1 minute. more than enough time to kill them tanks.. I would also accept this as a solution. I like that idea, but what if the enemy team gets redlined? They would just die over and over. And What's the reasoning behind it? "Hey! Why are you still at base for? Kill Yourself!" It wouldn't really work. Yet, with my idea, it would. "Hello, world!" lol, sounds like something a whore lover would say Alt of the great Godin I like chocolate ^___^
Pvt Numnutz Black Phoenix Mercenaries 457	Posted - 2013.12.21 02:00:00 - [40] - Quote Heathen Bastard wrote: Considering I kill redline railtanks with some frequency they are rather at risk. its a lessened risk, but still a risk none the less. My main gun is the XT-201 heavy missile turret. if I get that into position, it's even worse than a rail tank for you, know why? highest up angling in the game, and the bastard acts like a flak cannon, and they toss you all over the map. I use the railtank when I'm bored and want to see chunks of MLT tank scrubs go flying with every shot, the fact that you end up in my sights is just bad luck. Hell I'm not a great shot with the thing, so dropships are a pretty low priority unless you're trying to hotdrop onto my friends or your door gunners are giving them the business. Just so you know, an assault dropship is actually my greatest fear. mostly because if they get into position, I CAN'T shoot back. So maybe you're just a terrible pilot. burn to the ceiling, go over them, drop in behind them since your aerial redline is about 2-3x the size of the infantry/ground vehicle redline and pump some missiles/railshots into their tailpipe. I only fly pythons and have only been flying pythons since uprising. Not for the pilot turret but for the maneuverability. I really enjoy fights with missile tanks, as I can dodge the missiles and it looms really cool. Missile tanks make for fun fights and when they are in the redline I can still manage to do my job and not be two shotted for scouting a position for my squad. I would imagine that I'm a pretty low priority when I'm not doing anything, however flying around being useless is not fun for me. As I have been a dedicated pilot my entire dust carrier, (since closed beta) I consider myself to be a pretty good pilot, come fly with me sometime and decide for yourself. I know how to harass a tank, I have fought and killed many in uprising. My problem with railtanks is that I cannot engage them. I understand you are a tank driver and many who don't fly don't know a lot about dropship mechanics. Dropships do have an increased aerial redline, however that does not apply to the enemy redline. I cannot go further than a blue on the ground into your redline and 18 seconds is nowhere close to enough time to kill a tank, even with two experienced door gunners. So I have no answer to RLRTs except float above the redline and pray he grows a pair. This has frustrated me my entire dropship career, they are untouchable (except to other rail tanks) and kill me far to easily to be in a position that I cannot engage. You are right to fear a good pilot in an assault dropship, it can be very difficult to shake one and can put out a lot of damage with door gunners. Though it takes a skilled pilot and crew to bring down a good tanker. It makes for an interesting fight!

Paran Tadec Imperfect Bastards 1795	Posted - 2013.12.21 02:04:00 - [41] - Quote Just don't allow for any sp wp or isk gained from actions in your own red line Bittervet Proficiency V thanks logibro!
Sir Snugglz Red Star. EoN. 185	Posted - 2013.12.21 02:05:00 - [42] - Quote Paran Tadec wrote: Just don't allow for any sp wp or isk gained from actions in your own red line I like this idea too...
Pvt Numnutz Black Phoenix Mercenaries 457	Posted - 2013.12.21 02:46:00 - [43] - Quote Paran Tadec wrote: Just don't allow for any sp wp or isk gained from actions in your own red line Good idea, dissincentivise redliners in general, this would help to curb red line snipers as well.
Heathen Bastard The Bastard Brigade 783	Posted - 2013.12.21 02:52:00 - [44] - Quote Pvt Numnutz wrote: Paran Tadec wrote: Just don't allow for any sp wp or isk gained from actions in your own red line Good idea, dissincentivise redliners in general, this would help to curb red line snipers as well. See, you don't want balance, you just don't want anyone else to have fun in a certain way, what's next? restrict skill points to just AR's and suits? If you hear the words "WORTH IT!" look about, something hilarious just happened.
Shijima Kuraimaru WarRavens League of Infamy 441	Posted - 2013.12.21 03:21:00 - [45] - Quote Heathen Bastard wrote: Pvt Numnutz wrote: Paran Tadec wrote: Just don't allow for any sp wp or isk gained from actions in your own red line Good idea, dissincentivise redliners in general, this would help to curb red line snipers as well. See, you don't want balance, you just don't want anyone else to have fun in a certain way, what's next? restrict skill points to just AR's and suits? Spoken like a redliner. I still can't find tanks on the market. All I see are those HAVs.
Heathen Bastard The Bastard Brigade 783	Posted - 2013.12.21 04:16:00 - [46] - Quote Shijima Kuraimaru wrote: Heathen Bastard wrote: Pvt Numnutz wrote: Paran Tadec wrote: Just don't allow for any sp wp or isk gained from actions in your own red line Good idea, dissincentivise redliners in general, this would help to curb red line snipers as well. See, you don't want balance, you just don't want anyone else to have fun in a certain way, what's next? restrict skill points to just AR's and suits? Spoken like a redliner. Spoken like an ARtard. We can just keep calling each other names all night, kiddo. If you hear the words "WORTH IT!" look about, something hilarious just happened.
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 9258	Posted - 2013.12.21 04:18:00 - [47] - Quote I like the OP's suggestion, though maybe give turrets a bit more elevation to compensate for not being able to camp so far back. This way they can still fight back, but are at least not immune to practically everything in the game while doing so. So long as they can't look straight up a skilled dropship pilot will still be able to engage, and a skilled tank driver will be able to juke and jive that dropship, or just run to the redline for safety. Vids / O7
Pvt Numnutz Black Phoenix Mercenaries 460	Posted - 2013.12.21 07:00:00 - [48] - Quote Heathen Bastard wrote: Pvt Numnutz wrote: Paran Tadec wrote: Just don't allow for any sp wp or isk gained from actions in your own red line Good idea, dissincentivise redliners in general, this would help to curb red line snipers as well. See, you don't want balance, you just don't want anyone else to have fun in a certain way, what's next? restrict skill points to just AR's and suits? So we shouldn't correct imbalance? Even if it causes a lot of frustration to a play style? Its an obvious problem, the suggestion I propose doesn't gimp these roles in anyway. All the stats will remain the same, they will just have to actually enter the battle and risk something for a reward like everyone else. I'm not sure how you came to the conclusion that I would suggest restricting SP to AR's. Especially because I am a dropship pilot... if anything I think AR's should be less effective to give way to more skill based weaponry. However that's a thread I may actually make I want snipers and rail tanks to have fun, though I also want to have fun. The battle should not be so obviously one sided, I do feel for the av guys right now and want to see them have fun too. But its good for the them To experience the same feelings dropship pilots had, they will appreciate balanced fights more now.
Shijima Kuraimaru WarRavens League of Infamy 441	Posted - 2013.12.21 07:22:00 - [49] - Quote Heathen Bastard wrote: Shijima Kuraimaru wrote: Heathen Bastard wrote: Pvt Numnutz wrote: Paran Tadec wrote: Just don't allow for any sp wp or isk gained from actions in your own red line Good idea, dissincentivise redliners in general, this would help to curb red line snipers as well. See, you don't want balance, you just don't want anyone else to have fun in a certain way, what's next? restrict skill points to just AR's and suits? Spoken like a redliner. Spoken like an ARtard. We can just keep calling each other names all night, kiddo. That was good for a laugh. Try again to impress me with your ineptitude at composing properly conceptualized insults. I'll give you a little help. First, I don't use assault rifles, scrambler rifles, combat rifles, or rail rifles. Second, there is a high probability that you're closer to being a "kiddo" than I am. Amuse me again. I still can't find tanks on the market. All I see are those HAVs.
Pvt Numnutz Black Phoenix Mercenaries 462	Posted - 2013.12.21 12:26:00 - [50] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: I like the OP's suggestion, though maybe give turrets a bit more elevation to compensate for not being able to camp so far back. This way they can still fight back, but are at least not immune to practically everything in the game while doing so. So long as they can't look straight up a skilled dropship pilot will still be able to engage, and a skilled tank driver will be able to juke and jive that dropship, or just run to the redline for safety. Thanks, If this idea was implemented I think we should give it a week to see where rail tanks stand. If this does prove to be that crippling to rail tanks then I would be in favor of giving them a few more degrees on their firing arch. Though they should not be able to see as high as blaster or rails. BTW dust fiend gg with that rail incubus, thing is a python hunting monster. I was having so much fun dog fighting I didn't notice I was in the red line till it was too late

Texs Red DUST University Ivy League 106	Posted - 2013.12.21 13:52:00 - [51] - Quote To be honest I say no redline and bigger maps are the solution. My idea: If all of the maps were about as big as Impact Ridge then you remove the redline completely. To compensate for this you have about 5 spawn locations spaced out over about half of your side of them map. With a map this large that means that even if the entire enemy team was spread out over the enemy side of the map where they spawn at, they could not cover the whole thing and with there being 5 different spots to spawn from it would be impossible to camp them all. OR You have the big maps with 5 spawn points well into the redline but after a certain amount of time (maybe a minute, two tops) after spawning the redline defaults to the same redline as everyone. This gives you time to safely organize and assemble but prevents you from staying there for long periods of time.
Paran Tadec Imperfect Bastards 1796	Posted - 2013.12.21 13:58:00 - [52] - Quote Heathen Bastard wrote: Pvt Numnutz wrote: Paran Tadec wrote: Just don't allow for any sp wp or isk gained from actions in your own red line Good idea, dissincentivise redliners in general, this would help to curb red line snipers as well. See, you don't want balance, you just don't want anyone else to have fun in a certain way, what's next? restrict skill points to just AR's and suits? Stop hiding where no one can reach you Bittervet Proficiency V thanks logibro!
Pvt Numnutz Black Phoenix Mercenaries 468	Posted - 2013.12.22 05:37:00 - [53] - Quote Bump
Tectonic Fusion 772	Posted - 2013.12.22 05:48:00 - [54] - Quote I guess I don't have a problem with you. When tanks are spammed, I go to the highest mountain and call in my damage modded rail soma. However, the cpu/pg is so bad, I can't fit a hardener with my repairer AND my damage mod. So I'm a glass cannon, and any forge gunner or just a gunlogi can kill me if they flank me. Solo Player Squad status: Locked
SGT NOVA STAR Ahrendee Mercenaries 142	Posted - 2013.12.22 05:52:00 - [55] - Quote The fix is getting their balls to drop and putting some miles on their tanks VAYU! I CHOOSE YOU!
Heathen Bastard The Bastard Brigade 789	Posted - 2013.12.22 06:12:00 - [56] - Quote Shijima Kuraimaru wrote: WORDS So, you're 12, have all the rifles to prof 5 and stack complex damage mods on your armor tanked caldari logi suit? Your playstyle is pretty amusing. If you hear the words "WORTH IT!" look about, something hilarious just happened.
CommanderBolt ACME SPECIAL FORCES 475	Posted - 2013.12.22 06:26:00 - [57] - Quote Its a game, how balls has ever come into anything I dont know. I guess people just value their time spent playing a game to accurire a virtual curriency. Look at it like this. Game is not real life, real life will end for everyone at some point = nothing matters at all so enjoy and have fun! Or continue to be stubborn , grumpy and horde isk like a filthy juuuuuuuuu
Shijima Kuraimaru WarRavens League of Infamy 441	Posted - 2013.12.22 11:36:00 - [58] - Quote Heathen Bastard wrote: Shijima Kuraimaru wrote: WORDS So, you're 12, have all the rifles to prof 5 and stack complex damage mods on your armor tanked caldari logi suit? Your playstyle is pretty amusing. I'm guessing by your oversimplification of the quote that your reading comprehension is too low to understand most of what I had written. But, you have amused me once again with your ineptitude. Thanks for the chuckle. I still can't find tanks on the market. All I see are those HAVs.


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