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Balancing 0SP Pilots vs Specced Pilots

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Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 1256	Posted - 2013.12.19 23:37:00 - [1] - Quote I think the largest problem with Militia HAVs is the effectiveness of the hardeners, specifically in the hands of people who have little to no SP investment in vehicles. While I think what CCP is doing with the modules varying cooldowns/durations between tiers is actually a good choice. However, the effectiveness of the module should still be dictated by skill level. While Militia hardeners should offer the same damage resistance as Complex Hardeners, a pilot with 0 SP into vehicles should not gain the same benefit as a pilot with 15 million SP into vehicles. Therefor I propose the following changes. -Reduce Armor Hardeners to 20% Damage Reduction -Change the Vehicle Armor Upgrades skill to also include: Increase Damage reduction of Armor Hardeners by 4% per level. -Reduce Shield Hardeners to 40% Damage Reduction -Change the Vehicle Shield Upgrade skill to also include Increase damage reduction of Shield Hardeners by 4% per level. (These values assume an additive bonus) This means that pilots who get the Vehicle Armor/Shield Upgrade skill to 5 will still get the current full benefit from all hardeners, but players with no investment will only get 50%-66% of the current benefit. Thoughts? ADS Reports - Defining Racial Themes
Sgt Buttscratch 1223	Posted - 2013.12.19 23:41:00 - [2] - Quote Dude, the difference between a MLT and PRO weapon isn't much at all, why should the difference between a MLT and a STD tank be bigger? You tankers forget you have STD tanks, STD is only ever just a tad better than MLT. I stick my weiner in two buns and and then give it the gas Sour cream from my spleen into Levi jeans
Monkey MAC Lost Millennium 1277	Posted - 2013.12.19 23:44:00 - [3] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: I think the largest problem with Militia HAVs is the effectiveness of the hardeners, specifically in the hands of people who have little to no SP investment in vehicles. While I think what CCP is doing with the modules varying cooldowns/durations between tiers is actually a good choice. However, the effectiveness of the module should still be dictated by skill level. While Militia hardeners should offer the same damage resistance as Complex Hardeners, a pilot with 0 SP into vehicles should not gain the same benefit as a pilot with 15 million SP into vehicles. Therefor I propose the following changes. -Reduce Armor Hardeners to 20% Damage Reduction -Change the Vehicle Armor Upgrades skill to also include: Increase Damage reduction of Armor Hardeners by 4% per level. -Reduce Shield Hardeners to 40% Damage Reduction -Change the Vehicle Shield Upgrade skill to also include Increase damage reduction of Shield Hardeners by 4% per level. (These values assume an additive bonus) This means that pilots who get the Vehicle Armor/Shield Upgrade skill to 5 will still get the current full benefit from all hardeners, but players with no investment will only get 50%-66% of the current benefit. Thoughts? So now the only way to take care of a specced tank is to use a specced tank? Mlt tanks currently are both a blessing and a curse, curse because everyone has them now, blessing because they are the only thing to reliably stand up to specced tanks. The way to 'fix' tanks is: give av more effects against vehicles, weapons that slow em down, overheat the guns, deactivate modules for a few precious seconds. discourage use of multiple hardners, don't make it pointless or unviable but give it drawbacks. Tanks 514 I told you, I bloody well told you. Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl.1
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 1257	Posted - 2013.12.19 23:56:00 - [4] - Quote Sgt Buttscratch wrote: Dude, the difference between a MLT and PRO weapon isn't much at all, why should the difference between a MLT and a STD tank be bigger? You tankers forget you have STD tanks, STD is only ever just a tad better than MLT. You didn't read the post. MLT and STD would be identical with the same pilot. Monkey MAC wrote: So now the only way to take care of a specced tank is to use a specced tank? Mlt tanks currently are both a blessing and a curse, curse because everyone has them now, blessing because they are the only thing to reliably stand up to specced tanks. The way to 'fix' tanks is: give av more effects against vehicles, weapons that slow em down, overheat the guns, deactivate modules for a few precious seconds. discourage use of multiple hardners, don't make it pointless or unviable but give it drawbacks. By your logic, it would be appropriate for a character with 0SP in a starter fit to kill a full proto character with 15 million SP Also, when my Heavy vehicle goes up against a Heavy AV weapon Proto Forge Guns give me a run for my money against my fully specced tank. Does that seem unreasonable? ADS Reports - Defining Racial Themes
Skihids Bullet Cluster Legacy Rising 2588	Posted - 2013.12.20 00:02:00 - [5] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: Sgt Buttscratch wrote: Dude, the difference between a MLT and PRO weapon isn't much at all, why should the difference between a MLT and a STD tank be bigger? You tankers forget you have STD tanks, STD is only ever just a tad better than MLT. You didn't read the post. MLT and STD would be identical with the same pilot. Monkey MAC wrote: So now the only way to take care of a specced tank is to use a specced tank? Mlt tanks currently are both a blessing and a curse, curse because everyone has them now, blessing because they are the only thing to reliably stand up to specced tanks. The way to 'fix' tanks is: give av more effects against vehicles, weapons that slow em down, overheat the guns, deactivate modules for a few precious seconds. discourage use of multiple hardners, don't make it pointless or unviable but give it drawbacks. By your logic, it would be appropriate for a character with 0SP in a starter fit to kill a full proto character with 15 million SP Also, when my Heavy vehicle goes up against a Heavy AV weapon Proto Forge Guns give me a run for my money against my fully specced tank. Does that seem unreasonable? Well, you can pop a proto suit with a starter fit if you get the drop on him. It's even easier to pop a STD suit which is what we are comparing.
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 4250	Posted - 2013.12.20 00:04:00 - [6] - Quote The difference between a Militia and Standard weapon (or Militia and Prototype for that matter) is relatively small, but there IS a difference. The difference between an unskilled user with a Militia weapon and a Proto-ready character using the same MILITIA weapon is quite significant. Higher damage, better base accuracy, less recoil and faster reload. By contrast, a skilled tanker with Militia modules will only have a slight buff to their effectiveness compared with someone who didn't invest any SP into vehicles. I do think that 4% per level is probably more than it should be, and would prefer 3% or MAYBE even 2%, with the baseline values adjusted appropriately so at max shield or armour skill, you get the same statline we have now.
Sev Alcatraz Bullet Cluster Legacy Rising 374	Posted - 2013.12.20 00:05:00 - [7] - Quote I was a Tanker in closed beta and ran everything, i know all the tricks in the book. I have 0 SP into HAV and can out gun and out maneuver These "new tankers" with my Sica fitted with a nothing but militia modules who just drive and shoot and are running maddies and gun logis. Tanks V Tank comes down to who is the most skilled Not SP Investment. closed beta vet >wants the sagaris back :/
pegasis prime BIG BAD W0LVES 1451	Posted - 2013.12.20 00:06:00 - [8] - Quote Sgt Buttscratch wrote: Dude, the difference between a MLT and PRO weapon isn't much at all, why should the difference between a MLT and a STD tank be bigger? You tankers forget you have STD tanks, STD is only ever just a tad better than MLT. no there is not a big difference but the added strength of the proto wepon normally comes from the investes sp i.e. prof skills , adding a feature like this would still make mlt tanking viable but also make investing into tanks more viable and effective . over all I don't think this is a bad idea. Its gone from suck .....to blow level 1 forum warrior
Skihids Bullet Cluster Legacy Rising 2588	Posted - 2013.12.20 00:08:00 - [9] - Quote I don't think CCP wants you to be more effective the more SP you drop, just effective longer. It's a form of tiericide that allows starter players to do something and get a taste. It's not as if having twice the active module time per match doesn't give you a clear advantage.
Monkey MAC Lost Millennium 1277	Posted - 2013.12.20 00:28:00 - [10] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: Sgt Buttscratch wrote: Dude, the difference between a MLT and PRO weapon isn't much at all, why should the difference between a MLT and a STD tank be bigger? You tankers forget you have STD tanks, STD is only ever just a tad better than MLT. You didn't read the post. MLT and STD would be identical with the same pilot. Monkey MAC wrote: So now the only way to take care of a specced tank is to use a specced tank? Mlt tanks currently are both a blessing and a curse, curse because everyone has them now, blessing because they are the only thing to reliably stand up to specced tanks. The way to 'fix' tanks is: give av more effects against vehicles, weapons that slow em down, overheat the guns, deactivate modules for a few precious seconds. discourage use of multiple hardners, don't make it pointless or unviable but give it drawbacks. By your logic, it would be appropriate for a character with 0SP in a starter fit to kill a full proto character with 15 million SP Also, when my Heavy vehicle goes up against a Heavy AV weapon Proto Forge Guns give me a run for my money against my fully specced tank. Does that seem unreasonable? That is what im saying, and it happens often, my miltia shotgun has more than dealt with his fair share of proto suits. There should be a difference which there all ready is, but it shouldn't be such that a higher tier should win just because he is higher tier. If you start decreasing the effectiveness of mlt tanks who are skilled tankers gonna move to next? Infantry, nerfing mlt tanks or tank spam is a double edged sword, its just as likely to take your head as it is the enemies! Tanks 514 I told you, I bloody well told you. Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl.1

Our Deepest Regret L.O.T.I.S. Public Disorder. 416	Posted - 2013.12.20 00:31:00 - [11] - Quote Sgt Buttscratch wrote: Dude, the difference between a MLT and PRO weapon isn't much at all, why should the difference between a MLT and a STD tank be bigger? You tankers forget you have STD tanks, STD is only ever just a tad better than MLT. I dunno about that, man. Proto rail guns are ridiculous.
Arkena Wyrnspire Turalyon 514 Turalyon Alliance 6478	Posted - 2013.12.20 00:52:00 - [12] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: By your logic, it would be appropriate for a character with 0SP in a starter fit to kill a full proto character with 15 million SP ... That's entirely reasonable? Level 6 Forum Warrior Lenin of the glorious armoured revolution Gallente FW - 'Turalyon'
The dark cloud The Rainbow Effect 1972	Posted - 2013.12.20 01:05:00 - [13] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: I think the largest problem with Militia HAVs is the effectiveness of the hardeners, specifically in the hands of people who have little to no SP investment in vehicles. While I think what CCP is doing with the modules varying cooldowns/durations between tiers is actually a good choice. However, the effectiveness of the module should still be dictated by skill level. While Militia hardeners should offer the same damage resistance as Complex Hardeners, a pilot with 0 SP into vehicles should not gain the same benefit as a pilot with 15 million SP into vehicles. Therefor I propose the following changes. -Reduce Armor Hardeners to 20% Damage Reduction -Change the Vehicle Armor Upgrades skill to also include: Increase Damage reduction of Armor Hardeners by 4% per level. -Reduce Shield Hardeners to 40% Damage Reduction -Change the Vehicle Shield Upgrade skill to also include Increase damage reduction of Shield Hardeners by 4% per level. (These values assume an additive bonus) This means that pilots who get the Vehicle Armor/Shield Upgrade skill to 5 will still get the current full benefit from all hardeners, but players with no investment will only get 50%-66% of the current benefit. Thoughts? Soma hater detected. I shall show you a world, a world which you cant imagine, a world full off butthurt n00bs at the other end of my gun
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 1257	Posted - 2013.12.20 01:08:00 - [14] - Quote The dark cloud wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: I think the largest problem with Militia HAVs is the effectiveness of the hardeners, specifically in the hands of people who have little to no SP investment in vehicles. While I think what CCP is doing with the modules varying cooldowns/durations between tiers is actually a good choice. However, the effectiveness of the module should still be dictated by skill level. While Militia hardeners should offer the same damage resistance as Complex Hardeners, a pilot with 0 SP into vehicles should not gain the same benefit as a pilot with 15 million SP into vehicles. Therefor I propose the following changes. -Reduce Armor Hardeners to 20% Damage Reduction -Change the Vehicle Armor Upgrades skill to also include: Increase Damage reduction of Armor Hardeners by 4% per level. -Reduce Shield Hardeners to 40% Damage Reduction -Change the Vehicle Shield Upgrade skill to also include Increase damage reduction of Shield Hardeners by 4% per level. (These values assume an additive bonus) This means that pilots who get the Vehicle Armor/Shield Upgrade skill to 5 will still get the current full benefit from all hardeners, but players with no investment will only get 50%-66% of the current benefit. Thoughts? Soma hater detected. I'm a tanker myself, and I rather enjoy the easy Soma kills I rack up. However I'm attempting to come up with ideas to help infantry deal with the militia tank spam and make things a little easier for them. ADS Reports - Defining Racial Themes


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