DUST Search - Tanks - Gunnlogi

Roger Cordill wrote:

Tebu Gan wrote:

Roger Cordill wrote:

message from Godin: I've noticed this as well. Shield hardeners either last too long, or cool off too short, and missiles and rails dish out way too much damage (well, rails is more of the fact that you can sit in the redline and not fear a thing, maybe no damage delt while in the redline?), resulting in Maddy's going down everywhere left and right. Also, Apparently it is far easier to fit modules on a GUnnlogi than it is a Maddy. On all of my Maddy fits, I can't fit a hi slot and the smalls, and I can fit only one complex module (turret included) on the fit. Yet, I got all slots filled on my Gunnlogi with enhanced/adv. items. That needs fixing.

I would be all for reducing the rail guns max range. Say 400M.

And yeah, I've heard a maddie is really hard to fit up. Like I said though, I know nothing about them. I wonder how it is with fitting optimization.

It seems CPU is very lacking.

message from Godin: That's exactly the problem. With both armor fitting optimization and blaster at 5, and large turret at 3, I still can't do it. I max out on CPU, yet I have tons of PG left over. If some PG got taken in exchange, say 400 PG for 200 CPU (give or take), I probably would be able to make a full complex/PROTO fit. Seeing as though I got max skills, I think I should.....

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Tebu Gan Dem Durrty Boyz Renegade Alliance 315	Posted - 2013.12.19 18:19:00 - [1] - Quote It seems all the rage at the moment is over tank spam. Most of these are milita tanks mind you and NOT SP invested tankers. But I feel the milita tanks are really blurring the lines of where any imbalance lay. Most every reference seen against tankers involves an encounter with a Milita tank in a PUB match. Though if we take time to look at it from a perspective of the PC, we might have a clearer picture of what is broken and what is not. A lot of the people running pubs, don't run the best of the best to begin with. Though in a PC, everyone is running the best of the best. Or at least they SHOULD be. So I shall share with you my experiences with tanks in PC. All it used to take, was a single forge gunner on a high spot. Before 1.7, the easiest counter to tanks or dropships, was a forge gunner. Swarms were used as well, but the main thing has always been the forge gunner. My gunnlogi, was always of questionable value to me in PC. They were simply to squishy, to be doing anything other than hangin back rail sniping. And even then, the Maddie was always a better choice. Tanks in PC, in my opinion, were not as valuable as infantry was. I will say, the new changes, are far more balanced than the previous itteration of tanks. To start with, I run the shield version of tanks. In PC I run 2 dominate fits. One is a missile fit, the other a rail fit. Fits are as follows Missile fit HIGH SLOTS - Damage amplifier, Shield hardener, Shield booster LOW SLOTS - CPU booster, Ammo TURRET - Proto Missiles Rail fit HIGH SLOTS - Damage amplifer x2, Shield hardener, OR, Damage amp, Shield hardener, Shield booster LOW SLOTS - (it's whatever, nothing very useful for these slots anyways) TURRET - Proto Rails In a PC, there can be quite a few tanks out. Very map dependent of course. On average, there are at least 2 tanks on either side. One thing you must understand, is that more tanks does not mean an instant win, which is how a lot of pubs roll. A lack of infantry actively playing for points will result in a loss. (Pubs work like this as well) SO in a PC, tank spam is not an issue. But they are a force that AV struggles to deal with. I won't say that we don't have some balance issues atm, because we really do. But they certainly aren't that far off to being balanced. ISSUES Missiles Gunnlogi vs Maddie(any fit!) I'm going to say it right now, a maddie doesn't stand a chance. And don't kid yourself, no matter how you fit that thing up, you will lose to my missiles. Excluding rails of course, if range is used to your advantage. Even with a rails, you had better be sitting where I can't reach you. I WILL hunt you down because I know I will destroy you the moment I get that chance. Generally, against a blaster, my hardener will eat ALL of your damage. 2 hardener and I actually take no damage. So you get the jump on me, no biggie. I have plenty of time to turn and line you up. Activate damage mod, and fire. 12 missiles to a clip, and you will drop on the 10th or 11th missile. And I can unleash this in just a few seconds. I have had one maddie survive, but that was simply because I missed a few missiles. No matter though, once reloaded, damage mod still had some ticks, and I finished him off. Multiple times, I have faced off against 2 maddies at one time. Typically, I will finish the first(in just a few seconds), Boost up if I need to and let my hardener eat the blaster fire as I reload. The second one goes down in the same fashion. In one of my PC's, I took on 2 maddie drivers, at their home point. Dropped them a total of 8 times. The nearly got me when they pulled out a rail with the blaster, but I managed to drop the main threat, the rail, and boost up then back to the blaster! To me this seems a bit imbalanced, that I could manage this with ease, against 2 proto maddies. Infantry vs Tank I don't think it is as bad as people say it is. Though AV does struggle to drop a tank, I don't see Missiles or Rails as OP against infantry. They are very very hard to get infantry with. Blasters are the anti Infantry tool, and even then, not every tank is running them. And blasters are very situational. Places like inside cities, covered points, areas with lots of infantry cover, are all bad for blasters. We have had a few blasters murder some red dots, but generally, that is because we have neturalized the enemy tanks, and our AV holds the higher ground. Though what I have seen is AV take the back seat when it comes to dealing with tanks. AV are more of a support role now. Before, tanks were not seen as important in PC. Now though, they are required to deal with tanks. AV is needed far less when good tank support is on the field. This though is a good thing, as it frees up AV spots for other useful roles dealing with infantry. So what we have seen is a shift from heavy AV to Heavy tank support. In my opinion, it is better to field more tanks that deal in destroying other tanks, than those that deal with infantry. I will say though, that swarms seem to be in a poor state right now. Their usage has significantly declined. Against shields, they are pretty useless, as in with hardeners up, no damage. So if I run 2 hardeners, they are totally useless for a minute, and I really feel that they shouldn't be that way. Maybe giving them some of that range back, or increasing missile speed could help them. So to conclude, I feel when looked at from the PC perspective, tanks are nearly balanced out. -They have been given a viable roles to play for a change. -One AV can still take out a tank, but it is far more challenging. -Tanks are the counter to another tank, while AV serves more the support role. Feel free to discuss your PC experiences! Nuff Said
BobThe 844-1 CakeMan Murder Cakes Of Doom 1310	Posted - 2013.12.19 18:24:00 - [2] - Quote i see. well i run rail all the time. 3 damage mods 1 armor plate 1 armor rep proto rail I kill all unprepared tanks in 2 shots and hardened tanks take a few more but overall tanks fear the rail. :D Tank driver. 10 mil SP in tanks 8 mil into infantry. Msg my main BobThe843CakeMan I ring for everyone. :D
Tebu Gan Dem Durrty Boyz Renegade Alliance 315	Posted - 2013.12.19 18:26:00 - [3] - Quote BobThe 844-1 CakeMan wrote: i see. well i run rail all the time. 3 damage mods 1 armor plate 1 armor rep proto rail I kill all unprepared tanks in 2 shots and hardened tanks take a few more but overall tanks fear the rail. :D Yeah, tried that out. Typically you can blow up tank before they even get their hardeners on. Good tankers though stick to the edges and watch for your sneaky ass. You may get me the first time, but I'll be comin at you with a vengence! Nuff Said
Tebu Gan Dem Durrty Boyz Renegade Alliance 315	Posted - 2013.12.19 20:29:00 - [4] - Quote Let me know how your tanking experiences in PC are! I'm interested in hearing from a Maddie driver, as I certainly do not drive them. Anyone PC???! Nuff Said
Luk Manag of Terror TRE GAFFEL 244	Posted - 2013.12.19 20:47:00 - [5] - Quote Have you met any LAVs fitted out with RE hood ornaments? There will be bullets. ACR+SMG
Tebu Gan Dem Durrty Boyz Renegade Alliance 315	Posted - 2013.12.19 20:48:00 - [6] - Quote Luk Manag wrote: Have you met any LAVs fitted out with RE hood ornaments? I had my buddy in a PC cover me with them. Gonna need a bigger explosive than that! Nuff Said
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 2290	Posted - 2013.12.19 20:50:00 - [7] - Quote Atiim wrote: So other pilots are still trying to justify god mode by using the MLT HAVs as a scapegoat? Such a shame really. Holy Fudgenipples!!! MY HMG WORKS!!! IT ACTUALLY WORKS!!! \o/
Roger Cordill The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 290	Posted - 2013.12.19 20:57:00 - [8] - Quote message from Godin: I've noticed this as well. Shield hardeners either last too long, or cool off too short, and missiles and rails dish out way too much damage (well, rails is more of the fact that you can sit in the redline and not fear a thing, maybe no damage delt while in the redline?), resulting in Maddy's going down everywhere left and right. Also, Apparently it is far easier to fit modules on a GUnnlogi than it is a Maddy. On all of my Maddy fits, I can't fit a hi slot and the smalls, and I can fit only one complex module (turret included) on the fit. Yet, I got all slots filled on my Gunnlogi with enhanced/adv. items. That needs fixing.
Roger Cordill The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 290	Posted - 2013.12.19 20:59:00 - [9] - Quote Atiim wrote: Atiim wrote: So other pilots are still trying to justify god mode by using the MLT HAVs as a scapegoat? Such a shame really. message from Godin: There wouldn't be a problem right now if MLT ** wasn't close to our "god mode" in the first place. I put over 10m SP into it, some scrub puts 0, yet he has a very similar fit as me? ** that.
Tebu Gan Dem Durrty Boyz Renegade Alliance 316	Posted - 2013.12.19 21:28:00 - [10] - Quote Roger Cordill wrote: message from Godin: I've noticed this as well. Shield hardeners either last too long, or cool off too short, and missiles and rails dish out way too much damage (well, rails is more of the fact that you can sit in the redline and not fear a thing, maybe no damage delt while in the redline?), resulting in Maddy's going down everywhere left and right. Also, Apparently it is far easier to fit modules on a GUnnlogi than it is a Maddy. On all of my Maddy fits, I can't fit a hi slot and the smalls, and I can fit only one complex module (turret included) on the fit. Yet, I got all slots filled on my Gunnlogi with enhanced/adv. items. That needs fixing. I would be all for reducing the rail guns max range. Say 400M. And yeah, I've heard a maddie is really hard to fit up. Like I said though, I know nothing about them. I wonder how it is with fitting optimization. It seems CPU is very lacking. Nuff Said

Roger Cordill The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 290	Posted - 2013.12.19 21:41:00 - [11] - Quote Tebu Gan wrote: Roger Cordill wrote: message from Godin: I've noticed this as well. Shield hardeners either last too long, or cool off too short, and missiles and rails dish out way too much damage (well, rails is more of the fact that you can sit in the redline and not fear a thing, maybe no damage delt while in the redline?), resulting in Maddy's going down everywhere left and right. Also, Apparently it is far easier to fit modules on a GUnnlogi than it is a Maddy. On all of my Maddy fits, I can't fit a hi slot and the smalls, and I can fit only one complex module (turret included) on the fit. Yet, I got all slots filled on my Gunnlogi with enhanced/adv. items. That needs fixing. I would be all for reducing the rail guns max range. Say 400M. And yeah, I've heard a maddie is really hard to fit up. Like I said though, I know nothing about them. I wonder how it is with fitting optimization. It seems CPU is very lacking. message from Godin: That's exactly the problem. With both armor fitting optimization and blaster at 5, and large turret at 3, I still can't do it. I max out on CPU, yet I have tons of PG left over. If some PG got taken in exchange, say 400 PG for 200 CPU (give or take), I probably would be able to make a full complex/PROTO fit. Seeing as though I got max skills, I think I should.....
Tebu Gan Dem Durrty Boyz Renegade Alliance 316	Posted - 2013.12.19 21:45:00 - [12] - Quote Roger Cordill wrote: Tebu Gan wrote: Roger Cordill wrote: message from Godin: I've noticed this as well. Shield hardeners either last too long, or cool off too short, and missiles and rails dish out way too much damage (well, rails is more of the fact that you can sit in the redline and not fear a thing, maybe no damage delt while in the redline?), resulting in Maddy's going down everywhere left and right. Also, Apparently it is far easier to fit modules on a GUnnlogi than it is a Maddy. On all of my Maddy fits, I can't fit a hi slot and the smalls, and I can fit only one complex module (turret included) on the fit. Yet, I got all slots filled on my Gunnlogi with enhanced/adv. items. That needs fixing. I would be all for reducing the rail guns max range. Say 400M. And yeah, I've heard a maddie is really hard to fit up. Like I said though, I know nothing about them. I wonder how it is with fitting optimization. It seems CPU is very lacking. message from Godin: That's exactly the problem. With both armor fitting optimization and blaster at 5, and large turret at 3, I still can't do it. I max out on CPU, yet I have tons of PG left over. If some PG got taken in exchange, say 400 PG for 200 CPU (give or take), I probably would be able to make a full complex/PROTO fit. Seeing as though I got max skills, I think I should..... You know, now that I think about it, I do struggle for CPU. Yet I can equip a CPU booster np. Low slots have very little to nothing to offer shield tanks. What would be cool I think is an extra slot High Mid Low Nuff Said
Pisidon Gmen Ivory Vanguard 18	Posted - 2013.12.19 21:58:00 - [13] - Quote comparing tanks in pc is 1 thing but ummm 90% of the players in dust don't get to play pc battles regular do to the unbalanced set up of them tanks are broken vs av that is a fact !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! blaster tanks still spam pts going 30 and 0 caus no one but a tank can kill them now and to do that they have to chase them around the map calling in a tank is like calling in a proto suit it should be hard to kill but not all most impossible 4 infantry to kill tanks too meany players have to b in av fits which makes it very ez 4 infantry to kill them well they try to repel tanks also its not 1 tanks its 2 or 3 rolling together that make it impossible to kill them do to there fire power and range
Roger Cordill The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 290	Posted - 2013.12.19 22:06:00 - [14] - Quote Pisidon Gmen wrote: comparing tanks in pc is 1 thing but ummm 90% of the players in dust don't get to play pc battles regular do to the unbalanced set up of them tanks are broken vs av that is a fact !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! blaster tanks still spam pts going 30 and 0 caus no one but a tank can kill them now and to do that they have to chase them around the map calling in a tank is like calling in a proto suit it should be hard to kill but not all most impossible 4 infantry to kill tanks too meany players have to b in av fits which makes it very ez 4 infantry to kill them well they try to repel tanks also its not 1 tanks its 2 or 3 rolling together that make it impossible to kill them do to there fire power and range message from Godin: 90% of the playerbase hates change then. No wonder. Never balance on pubs, where the idiots roam.
kiarbanor S.e.V.e.N. 235	Posted - 2013.12.19 22:11:00 - [15] - Quote There is a problem fitting Maddy's properly, I've noticed. With my best Maddy, I can't put anything of relevance in the two high slots. However, with the Gunnlogi, I can fill all five slots with mods that matter. Yes, the Maddy has more overall starting HP, but their slow turn speed is an absolute killer. Good post, OP.


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