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lcarus X
Eternal Beings
24
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Posted - 2013.12.18 15:12:00 -
[1] - Quote
To make dampeners viable, couldn't putting an active scanner on any suit take up the equipment slot + a high or low slot like it's the battery pack that powers the scanner? |
Vulpes Dolosus
SVER True Blood
Public Disorder.
504
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Posted - 2013.12.18 15:22:00 -
[2] - Quote
No, dampeners are viable. With lvl 5 dampening, you naturally block STD scanners, it takes 1 enhanced dampener to block ADV scanners (95% of the scanners in pubs), and 2 to block Proto bar the Duvoll Focused.
Dropship Specialist
Kills- Incubus: 3; Pythons: 0; Other DS: 24 Gêå1; Tanks: 13 Gêå1
12/18
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Mordecai Snake
Sardaukar Merc Guild
General Tso's Alliance
11
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Posted - 2013.12.18 16:09:00 -
[3] - Quote
They should be changed to grenades like the sensor from Ghost Recon: Future Soldier, only they'd go in the equipment slots. Give them short range so they'd only be viable for a specific area like around an objective or in a single room of a building.
Maybe have 1 at standard, 3-4 at proto, and they wouldn't be restockable by nano-hives. |
Dustbunny Durrr
ReD or DeaD
12
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Posted - 2013.12.18 17:54:00 -
[4] - Quote
lcarus X wrote:To make dampeners viable, couldn't putting an active scanner on any suit take up the equipment slot + a high or low slot like it's the battery pack that powers the scanner?
Honestly, I've been playing with dampeners lately, and IMO they are better than armour plates in most circumstances. Obviously play style matters somewhat here, but give them a try. I kinda wish your dust suit stats would show your current scan profile including all damps, so that you would know exactly what can and cannot scan down each suit. I think that info would greatly increase their use.
Not to mention, "scan attempt prevented" always puts a smile on my face. |
ratamaq doc
Edge Regiment
254
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Posted - 2013.12.18 19:27:00 -
[5] - Quote
Vulpes Dolosus wrote:No, dampeners are viable. With lvl 5 dampening, you naturally block STD scanners, it takes 1 enhanced dampener to block ADV scanners (95% of the scanners in pubs), and 2 to block Proto bar the Duvoll Focused.
I see this so much that I'm starting to wonder if there is a mis information campaign going on. 1 enhanced dampener with full skills on a mid frame brings you to 36 db. You need 1 complex to defeat The ADV scanner. This also makes me think this is why people believe there are more proto scanners than are really out there.
Math.
50 db - (50*.1) = 45. This is the skill reduction which is applied first.
45 db - (45* .2) = 36. This is a 20% reduction to the suit after skill is applied. Which is equal to an ADV scanner, not below.
45 db - (45*.25) = 33.75. This is a 25% reduction to the suit after skill is applied, which will defeat an ADV scanner.
The mistake people are making is combining the skill and mod together.
Bad math
50 - [(50*.1) + (50*.2)] = 35
Or
50 - (50*.3) = 35
This is not how skill stacking works. You take skill then suit then mod then stacking penalty mod. Each time you reduce the remainder, not combine then reduce the original total.
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Sana Rayya
WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL
Top Men.
561
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Posted - 2013.12.18 19:32:00 -
[6] - Quote
Yup, you definitely need one complex for a medium frame to dodge Advanced scans.
But I'm using Duvolle Quantums on all my fits, so you'll need two complex if you wanna dodge my scans :) |
ratamaq doc
Edge Regiment
256
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Posted - 2013.12.18 19:39:00 -
[7] - Quote
Sana Rayya wrote:Yup, you definitely need one complex for a medium frame to dodge Advanced scans.
But I'm using Duvolle Quantums on all my fits, so you'll need two complex if you wanna dodge my scans :)
This is one where my math actually is failing me and would love for someone else to check my work.
Staking penalty for second mod =86.9%
.20 - (.20*.869) = 17.38% 2nd enhanced mod after stack penalty
.25 - (.25* .869) = 21.7% 2nd complex mod after stack penalty
36 - (36 * .1738) = 29.75. (2 enh mod, not enough to get below 28)
33.75 - (33.75 * .1738) = 27.89 (1 comp + 1 enh)
With this math, it looks like you only need 1 complex and 1 enhanced to get below 28 db. Anyone care to correct?
I have 2 suits set up, one with complex/complex, one with complex/enhanced, but proto scanners are so rare that I haven't had the opportunity to test in over a week!
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Sana Rayya
WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL
Top Men.
562
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Posted - 2013.12.18 20:23:00 -
[8] - Quote
You definitely need two complex.
I'm not sure how the math works out - I cheat and use hydraSlav's DFT.
With two complex, I'm at 26.42 dB in a medium suit. With one complex and one enhanced, I'm only at 28.18.
According to the stacking penalty calculator, one complex and one enhanced combines to -37.38%, so from 45 dB, you get a final profile of 28.18 dB.
With two complex it's -41.30%, which is 26.42 dB. |
ratamaq doc
Edge Regiment
262
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Posted - 2013.12.18 21:19:00 -
[9] - Quote
Sana Rayya wrote:You definitely need two complex.
I'm not sure how the math works out - I cheat and use hydraSlav's DFT.
With two complex, I'm at 26.42 dB in a medium suit. With one complex and one enhanced, I'm only at 28.18.
According to the stacking penalty calculator, one complex and one enhanced combines to -37.38%, so from 45 dB, you get a final profile of 28.18 dB.
With two complex it's -41.30%, which is 26.42 dB.
Then maybe this is a bug? 28.179 is the db you get if you reduce the enh mod first then reduce the penalty complex from the remainder.
.25 * .869 = .21725 (complex mod with stacking penalty)
36 - (36*.21725) = 28.179 (skill -enh mod) - (complex mod w/ stacking penalty)
Shouldn't the higher value mod stack first so that it is (skill - complex mod) - (enh mod w/ stacking penalty)?
Can you link me to hydrsSlav's DFT?
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Sana Rayya
WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL
Top Men.
563
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Posted - 2013.12.18 21:46:00 -
[10] - Quote
This is just a guess, but since it's a reduction (-20%, -25%) technically the enhanced mod is "greater" because it's less negative. Ya dig? |
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ratamaq doc
Edge Regiment
263
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Posted - 2013.12.18 22:25:00 -
[11] - Quote
Makes since as an error. Do you have a link to the fitting DFT?
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Sana Rayya
WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL
Top Men.
564
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Posted - 2013.12.19 00:38:00 -
[12] - Quote
Here you go. Bump it if you like it; it deserves to be restickied too tbh. |
hydraSlav's
Ostrakon Agency
Gallente Federation
355
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Posted - 2013.12.25 21:39:00 -
[13] - Quote
Sana Rayya wrote:This is just a guess, but since it's a reduction (-20%, -25%) technically the enhanced mod is "greater" because it's less negative. Ya dig?
^ What he said. There aren't many "beneficial" numbers that count in the negatives (the profile stuff being the exception). CCP uses a single formula for all this, and -20% is "greater" than -25%.
Same affect is seen on the stacking of negative penalties, but no one complains about that 
Dust Fitting Tool
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ratamaq doc
Edge Regiment
288
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Posted - 2013.12.26 01:48:00 -
[14] - Quote
hydraSlav's wrote:Sana Rayya wrote:This is just a guess, but since it's a reduction (-20%, -25%) technically the enhanced mod is "greater" because it's less negative. Ya dig? ^ What he said. There aren't many "beneficial" numbers that count in the negatives (the profile stuff being the exception). CCP uses a single formula for all this, and -20% is "greater" than -25%. Same affect is seen on the stacking of negative penalties, but no one complains about that
They fixed the negative stacking on plates if that is what you are talking about
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