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Monkey MAC
Lost Millennium
1253
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Posted - 2013.12.18 00:38:00 -
[1] - Quote
Jason Pearson wrote:No, it should take one person to take down a tank.
But it shouldn't be as easy as "LOCKBOOMLOCKBOOM" lol dead tank
or "Don't worry guys I'll handle the tank" *chucks 3 Lai Dais and jumps over the burning wreck*.
It should require things like webifiers, emps that freeze weapons, **** like this that makes it hell for the tank, can be done by a single person, can be made easier by a group of people (Like, one guy with webs slowing the guy to a crawl, one guy with something that jams the weapons and one that unloads a forge into the guys rear). Which in turn would give tanks more reason to run with Infantry.
Before we'd get stomped by AV and then told "use teamwork", but honestly unless it was a tank squad (which cost millions of ISK) we couldn't use teamwork, because we were getting battered from a massive distance by all AV, it took a few Lai Dais to kill us before friendly Infantry could even react. Now we can, we can survive longer now, so by promoting teamwork through AV (but not making it a necessity) means Tanks would look to Infantry for support.
I mean imagine a squad of three AVers with the following setup of weapons I'd like to see.
Webifier Weapon that when fired (like a laser) can reduce the movment speed of a tank to a slow crawl, stupidly slow.
A weapon that can be thrown that like an AV grenade, seeks the target and locks up the turrets of the vehicle, very slow rotation speed, massive overheat when firing weapon and possibly other things, debuff lasts for let's say 10 seconds.
A Forge Gunner.
So we're imagining, Tank rolling down the street with not a care in the world, A Forge hits it, Tank immediately pops shield hardeners, looks for target.
Webifier and guy with the turret malfunction equipment sneak up behind the tank, they fire at it from cover. Tank turns around to fire back, easy kills right?. Forge hits it a second time and the tank turns his turret, back, the support fire their weapons, it's now very slow and cannot turn its turret very fast, it remains like this as the hardener runs out.
Forge gun aims at Tank rear because tank cannot speed away nor rotate very fast, Tank is slain, drops 9 gil and a potion.
This could be a very likely story if ewar was added and functioning well within the game. With ewar would come reasons a tanker would like to be by Infantry, if you're stuck in the situation as above and have an Infantry friend, the guys with webs and equipment to make the tank malfunction can be dropped to allow the tank to escape, rather than the Tanker hoping he can solo all the things.
Tl;Dr
It should only REQUIRE one AV to take out a tank (with tactics)
AV teamwork should make killing Tanks easier
Tanks 514
I told you, I bloody well told you.
Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl.1
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Monkey MAC
Lost Millennium
1253
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Posted - 2013.12.18 00:43:00 -
[2] - Quote
Jason Pearson wrote:Monkey MAC wrote:Jason Pearson wrote:No, it should take one person to take down a tank.
But it shouldn't be as easy as "LOCKBOOMLOCKBOOM" lol dead tank
or "Don't worry guys I'll handle the tank" *chucks 3 Lai Dais and jumps over the burning wreck*.
It should require things like webifiers, emps that freeze weapons, **** like this that makes it hell for the tank, can be done by a single person, can be made easier by a group of people (Like, one guy with webs slowing the guy to a crawl, one guy with something that jams the weapons and one that unloads a forge into the guys rear). Which in turn would give tanks more reason to run with Infantry.
Before we'd get stomped by AV and then told "use teamwork", but honestly unless it was a tank squad (which cost millions of ISK) we couldn't use teamwork, because we were getting battered from a massive distance by all AV, it took a few Lai Dais to kill us before friendly Infantry could even react. Now we can, we can survive longer now, so by promoting teamwork through AV (but not making it a necessity) means Tanks would look to Infantry for support.
I mean imagine a squad of three AVers with the following setup of weapons I'd like to see.
Webifier Weapon that when fired (like a laser) can reduce the movment speed of a tank to a slow crawl, stupidly slow.
A weapon that can be thrown that like an AV grenade, seeks the target and locks up the turrets of the vehicle, very slow rotation speed, massive overheat when firing weapon and possibly other things, debuff lasts for let's say 10 seconds.
A Forge Gunner.
So we're imagining, Tank rolling down the street with not a care in the world, A Forge hits it, Tank immediately pops shield hardeners, looks for target.
Webifier and guy with the turret malfunction equipment sneak up behind the tank, they fire at it from cover. Tank turns around to fire back, easy kills right?. Forge hits it a second time and the tank turns his turret, back, the support fire their weapons, it's now very slow and cannot turn its turret very fast, it remains like this as the hardener runs out.
Forge gun aims at Tank rear because tank cannot speed away nor rotate very fast, Tank is slain, drops 9 gil and a potion.
This could be a very likely story if ewar was added and functioning well within the game. With ewar would come reasons a tanker would like to be by Infantry, if you're stuck in the situation as above and have an Infantry friend, the guys with webs and equipment to make the tank malfunction can be dropped to allow the tank to escape, rather than the Tanker hoping he can solo all the things. Tl;Dr It should only REQUIRE one AV to take out a tank (with tactics) AV teamwork should make killing Tanks easier You skipped the post, you get a 1 star battle rating and no items.
No I read the whole thing! I am retracting that like I gave you!
Tanks 514
I told you, I bloody well told you.
Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl.1
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Monkey MAC
Lost Millennium
1255
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Posted - 2013.12.18 01:12:00 -
[3] - Quote
BMSTUBBY wrote:Jason Pearson wrote:
It wasn't an example of 3v1 only, It was aimed at showing what teamwork would achieve, it would be that easy with three people, however I do believe there should be numerous devices, mines that can do the job of a weapon that is focused on slowing a vehicle down for example, place those in a line, tank rolls over one and gets debuffed for 15 seconds. EMP Grenades that mess up someones screen and messes with their turret equipment. etc
One person can do it, it won't be like previous times with AV but it can be done without massive difficulty, just a little prep, good fitting and not being a moron :D
If you have a setup that forces teamwork, people won't enjoy it, but if you have a setup that encourages teamwork, people will adjust and make it be necessary. You'll hear tankers recommending to newbies not to run by themselves and laughing because someone got popped for being a hero, you'll hear AVers talking about how they need to run in groups and telling someone how stupid they are for complaining that they died to a tanker despite following exactly how someone described how to do it, telling them to practice and get good.
The idea of a 3man tank forces teamwork on a tank player, making his playstyle obsolete, his SP meaningless and his enjoyment from the game is taken away unless he goes and makes friends. If you're going to have a 3man Tank, you need to remove the SP required to play in Vehicles, because I wouldn't be happy if I'm spending 20mil SP and require players to use my stuff. And what do I do when I'm up late and my friends are asleep? I won't be playing DUST that's for sure.
Okay so then why shouldn't it take three persons to run a tank? one to drive it, one to shoot the gun, one to run mods or ect..... If it takes team work to take one down why can't it take team work to operate one?
It won't take more than one, if you know, what you are doing!
You could have a commando run, webifier mines, an overcharge weapon and swarms or plc, who could reliably take out a tank, if he knew one was coming, but he would be severly disadvantaged in the infantry v infantry theatre, because of no wait to return infantry fire!
It would be more favourable to run these pieces of equipment between multiple people to make up for the short comings!
Just like with tankers it shouldn't be neccesary to run with two gunners, but a blaster tank with 2 rail gunners will be at better advantage than a 1 man blaster!
Tanks 514
I told you, I bloody well told you.
Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl.1
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Monkey MAC
Lost Millennium
1256
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Posted - 2013.12.18 13:01:00 -
[4] - Quote
BMSTUBBY wrote:Jason Pearson wrote:
Erm, did you read my post?
As I said, it shouldn't take three people to kill a tank, there should be a range of options, equipment and weapons that allow different things to happen, Stasis mines and Grenades, EMP Grenades, weapons such as a rifle that fires a beam that slows down a vehicle, ones sort of make a visual wave that hits the tank and slows his turrets down, those are just the tip of things we could ask to be added.
For your idea to work, you need to remove SP from vehicles, make them ISK only things, no SP required and make this an Infantry focused game, AV should cost anything other than ISK either, then refund everyones SP back from Vehicles and AV so we can spec back into Infantry.
You cannot make it so a players entire playstyle can only be played when more players are on. I run pretty much only tank, if I had to wait for my friends to get on and let me play, I'd be on for about an hour a week and if it's requiring SP to play like this, you're having a ******* laugh :)
I read it. New toys like you described would be nice however those toys by themselves would only annoy the tank pilots and could be huge SP sinks for little to no gain. What kind of WP gains are you going to hand out to the guy that just slowed the tank down but did not destroy it? If it takes CCP removing all SP's from tanks and AV and making them ISK only to balance then so be it. TBH it is not that bad of an idea. I understand that forcing you to have three persons in your tank is not fare but right now I run Logi and have invested no SP's in either tanks or AV so I am forced to hope that someone on my team is running AV or we are just screwed and even then lets say it is just on Proto AVer up against two tanks or even just one, the tanks still win 90% of the time. Well unless it is just standard tanker someone like me who has no clue about tanking.
By themselves there would be little use, they would be used purely with the intention of destroying the vehicle, as with other support based equipment you earn a 20% commission on all WP earned against the effected target!
Setting up a webifier would serve little use, unless there is some form of AV to capatilise on it!
Even if its just a set of proximity explosives!
Tanks 514
I told you, I bloody well told you.
Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl.1
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Monkey MAC
Lost Millennium
1256
|
Posted - 2013.12.18 15:40:00 -
[5] - Quote
Skihids wrote:Something to consider:
Properly balanced, over time a tank is only as powerful as a single infantry unit. It is X times more powerful for 1/X amount of time. It packs a bunker busting strength to break through heavily defended objectives, but then must run away or be protected by others fr a longer period of time.
That's the new "waves of opportunity" philosophy.
That means we can have it both ways now. One AV player can solo a tank when it's in cool down, but it takes a coordinated effort when it's in power mode.
Yes but any tanker knows you shouldn't get caught with your pant's(hardeners) down!
So instead you get a tanker who is X times more powerful, because when he isn't there he isn't effecting the battle!
Which doesn't work, because instead of having waves of opportunity, you end up like now, almost continous waves of hiding in a corner waiting for the big bad tank to leave!
Tanks 514
I told you, I bloody well told you.
Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl.1
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