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Jason Pearson
3510
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Posted - 2013.12.18 00:31:00 -
[1] - Quote
No, it should take one person to take down a tank. But it shouldn't be as easy as "LOCKBOOMLOCKBOOM" lol dead tank or "Don't worry guys I'll handle the tank" *chucks 3 Lai Dais and jumps over the burning wreck*.
It should require things like webifiers, emps that freeze weapons, **** like this that makes it hell for the tank, can be done by a single person, can be made easier by a group of people (Like, one guy with webs slowing the guy to a crawl, one guy with something that jams the weapons and one that unloads a forge into the guys rear). Which in turn would give tanks more reason to run with Infantry.
Before we'd get stomped by AV and then told "use teamwork", but honestly unless it was a tank squad (which cost millions of ISK) we couldn't use teamwork, because we were getting battered from a massive distance by all AV, it took a few Lai Dais to kill us before friendly Infantry could even react. Now we can, we can survive longer now, so by promoting teamwork through AV (but not making it a necessity) means Tanks would look to Infantry for support.
I mean imagine a squad of three AVers with the following setup of weapons I'd like to see. Webifier Weapon that when fired (like a laser) can reduce the movment speed of a tank to a slow crawl, stupidly slow. A weapon that can be thrown that like an AV grenade, seeks the target and locks up the turrets of the vehicle, very slow rotation speed, massive overheat when firing weapon and possibly other things, debuff lasts for let's say 10 seconds. A Forge Gunner.
So we're imagining, Tank rolling down the street with not a care in the world, A Forge hits it, Tank immediately pops shield hardeners, looks for target.
Webifier and guy with the turret malfunction equipment sneak up behind the tank, they fire at it from cover. Tank turns around to fire back, easy kills right?. Forge hits it a second time and the tank turns his turret, back, the support fire their weapons, it's now very slow and cannot turn its turret very fast, it remains like this as the hardener runs out.
Forge gun aims at Tank rear because tank cannot speed away nor rotate very fast, Tank is slain, drops 9 gil and a potion.
This could be a very likely story if ewar was added and functioning well within the game. With ewar would come reasons a tanker would like to be by Infantry, if you're stuck in the situation as above and have an Infantry friend, the guys with webs and equipment to make the tank malfunction can be dropped to allow the tank to escape, rather than the Tanker hoping he can solo all the things.
King of the Forums // Vehicle Specialist for Hire.
Buffing or Debuffing Vehicles or AV will never fix anything.
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Jason Pearson
3510
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Posted - 2013.12.18 00:41:00 -
[2] - Quote
Monkey MAC wrote:Jason Pearson wrote:No, it should take one person to take down a tank. But it shouldn't be as easy as "LOCKBOOMLOCKBOOM" lol dead tank or "Don't worry guys I'll handle the tank" *chucks 3 Lai Dais and jumps over the burning wreck*.
It should require things like webifiers, emps that freeze weapons, **** like this that makes it hell for the tank, can be done by a single person, can be made easier by a group of people (Like, one guy with webs slowing the guy to a crawl, one guy with something that jams the weapons and one that unloads a forge into the guys rear). Which in turn would give tanks more reason to run with Infantry.
Before we'd get stomped by AV and then told "use teamwork", but honestly unless it was a tank squad (which cost millions of ISK) we couldn't use teamwork, because we were getting battered from a massive distance by all AV, it took a few Lai Dais to kill us before friendly Infantry could even react. Now we can, we can survive longer now, so by promoting teamwork through AV (but not making it a necessity) means Tanks would look to Infantry for support.
I mean imagine a squad of three AVers with the following setup of weapons I'd like to see. Webifier Weapon that when fired (like a laser) can reduce the movment speed of a tank to a slow crawl, stupidly slow. A weapon that can be thrown that like an AV grenade, seeks the target and locks up the turrets of the vehicle, very slow rotation speed, massive overheat when firing weapon and possibly other things, debuff lasts for let's say 10 seconds. A Forge Gunner.
So we're imagining, Tank rolling down the street with not a care in the world, A Forge hits it, Tank immediately pops shield hardeners, looks for target.
Webifier and guy with the turret malfunction equipment sneak up behind the tank, they fire at it from cover. Tank turns around to fire back, easy kills right?. Forge hits it a second time and the tank turns his turret, back, the support fire their weapons, it's now very slow and cannot turn its turret very fast, it remains like this as the hardener runs out.
Forge gun aims at Tank rear because tank cannot speed away nor rotate very fast, Tank is slain, drops 9 gil and a potion.
This could be a very likely story if ewar was added and functioning well within the game. With ewar would come reasons a tanker would like to be by Infantry, if you're stuck in the situation as above and have an Infantry friend, the guys with webs and equipment to make the tank malfunction can be dropped to allow the tank to escape, rather than the Tanker hoping he can solo all the things. Tl;Dr It should only REQUIRE one AV to take out a tank (with tactics) AV teamwork should make killing Tanks easier
You skipped the post, you get a 1 star battle rating and no items.
King of the Forums // Vehicle Specialist for Hire.
Buffing or Debuffing Vehicles or AV will never fix anything.
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Jason Pearson
3510
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Posted - 2013.12.18 00:56:00 -
[3] - Quote
BMSTUBBY wrote:Jason Pearson wrote:
I mean imagine a squad of three AVers with the following setup of weapons I'd like to see. Webifier Weapon that when fired (like a laser) can reduce the movment speed of a tank to a slow crawl, stupidly slow. A weapon that can be thrown that like an AV grenade, seeks the target and locks up the turrets of the vehicle, very slow rotation speed, massive overheat when firing weapon and possibly other things, debuff lasts for let's say 10 seconds. A Forge Gunner.
I hear ya on the OP AV of the past and agree it was OP. In the above example you are still drawing 3 v 1 and even still it is more like 3 v 5 if the tanker is running with a full squad of support. Now if one foot soldier could carry all the above gear and solo a solo driver then sure.
It wasn't an example of 3v1 only, It was aimed at showing what teamwork would achieve, it would be that easy with three people, however I do believe there should be numerous devices, mines that can do the job of a weapon that is focused on slowing a vehicle down for example, place those in a line, tank rolls over one and gets debuffed for 15 seconds. EMP Grenades that mess up someones screen and messes with their turret equipment. etc
One person can do it, it won't be like previous times with AV but it can be done without massive difficulty, just a little prep, good fitting and not being a moron :D
If you have a setup that forces teamwork, people won't enjoy it, but if you have a setup that encourages teamwork, people will adjust and make it be necessary. You'll hear tankers recommending to newbies not to run by themselves and laughing because someone got popped for being a hero, you'll hear AVers talking about how they need to run in groups and telling someone how stupid they are for complaining that they died to a tanker despite following exactly how someone described how to do it, telling them to practice and get good.
The idea of a 3man tank forces teamwork on a tank player, making his playstyle obsolete, his SP meaningless and his enjoyment from the game is taken away unless he goes and makes friends. If you're going to have a 3man Tank, you need to remove the SP required to play in Vehicles, because I wouldn't be happy if I'm spending 20mil SP and require players to use my stuff. And what do I do when I'm up late and my friends are asleep? I won't be playing DUST that's for sure.
King of the Forums // Vehicle Specialist for Hire.
Buffing or Debuffing Vehicles or AV will never fix anything.
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Jason Pearson
3511
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Posted - 2013.12.18 01:10:00 -
[4] - Quote
BMSTUBBY wrote:
Okay so then why shouldn't it take three persons to run a tank?
one to drive it, one to shoot the gun, one to run mods or ect.....
If it takes team work to take one down why can't it take team work to operate one?
Erm, did you read my post?
As I said, it shouldn't take three people to kill a tank, there should be a range of options, equipment and weapons that allow different things to happen, Stasis mines and Grenades, EMP Grenades, weapons such as a rifle that fires a beam that slows down a vehicle, ones sort of make a visual wave that hits the tank and slows his turrets down, those are just the tip of things we could ask to be added.
For your idea to work, you need to remove SP from vehicles, make them ISK only things, no SP required and make this an Infantry focused game, AV should cost anything other than ISK either, then refund everyones SP back from Vehicles and AV so we can spec back into Infantry.
You cannot make it so a players entire playstyle can only be played when more players are on. I run pretty much only tank, if I had to wait for my friends to get on and let me play, I'd be on for about an hour a week and if it's requiring SP to play like this, you're having a ******* laugh :)
King of the Forums // Vehicle Specialist for Hire.
Buffing or Debuffing Vehicles or AV will never fix anything.
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Jason Pearson
3514
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Posted - 2013.12.18 01:55:00 -
[5] - Quote
Ninja Troll wrote:I agree. Although the title of your topic made me think you were against AVers. I'm hoping CCP implement an Infantry Only mode or option with no vehicles. Not sure if they've tried it yet.
They haven't tried it, wouldn't be against matches for infantry only if they're just Ambush, Vehicles should be present when it comes to domi and skirm.
King of the Forums // Vehicle Specialist for Hire.
Buffing or Debuffing Vehicles or AV will never fix anything.
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Jason Pearson
3520
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Posted - 2013.12.18 14:34:00 -
[6] - Quote
BMSTUBBY wrote: I read it.
New toys like you described would be nice however those toys by themselves would only annoy the tank pilots and could be huge SP sinks for little to no gain.
What kind of WP gains are you going to hand out to the guy that just slowed the tank down but did not destroy it?
If it takes CCP removing all SP's from tanks and AV and making them ISK only to balance then so be it. TBH it is not that bad of an idea.
I understand that forcing you to have three persons in your tank is not fare but right now I run Logi and have invested no SP's in either tanks or AV so I am forced to hope that someone on my team is running AV or we are just screwed and even then lets say it is just on Proto AVer up against two tanks or even just one, the tanks still win 90% of the time.
Well unless it is just standard tanker someone like me who has no clue about tanking.
Would only annoy? Not quite sure on that, it would be a massive hindrance to be put in a position like that when trying to flee, using them would let you escape, would let you continue dealing damage without them running off, could stop them from assisting their team, could hit them just as a friendly tank rolls round and boom, poor stuck tank.
Of course, WP needs to be balanced and needs to go for everything that you do, continuous WP for a beam type thing (like a rep tool) up to a cap, wp for just stopping one with something that needs to be thrown, damage also needs to give WP, I don't really know what number, something like 25 for every 1000 damage dealt?
Thats down to your decision in not running something to combat a vehicle, we however invested our SP into something that you want to require 3 people, so SP would need to go because I doubt many people would stay if they were stuck with a useless class that REQUIRES 3 to even attempt to do something, it's different with AV, I got pushed back by a single forge gunner, if he was properly rewarded for his efforts then it'd be a whole different story,
Zerus Ni'Kator wrote: But Your forcing AV players through that route currently
If you can't solo vehicles with your SP investment because you don't have other AV friends on then all the SP invested in AV is useless
Which is why I'm asking for ewar, the possibility that a single player can bait, trap and kill a tank easier than now, but isn't a range/damage buff to their weapons so they just lolstomp tanks like before,
King of the Forums // Vehicle Specialist for Hire.
Buffing or Debuffing Vehicles or AV will never fix anything.
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