DUST Search - So let's have you explain this one.

Atiim wrote:

Yeah, exept the tanks have what's called "Active Scanners" to prevent themselves from being ambushed while in cities, and the cover and tons of walls easily allow tankers to escape without even trying.

Not that they ever had to try.

Also, I answered something very similar to this a while back, so here:

Atiim wrote:

I don't need your hints. I've been using both HAVs and AV for more than half a year now. And those tactics require a very bad pilot (*hint hint*)

And tell me, what part of that are you required to do? I can (and have) run my tanks solo and still managed to do just as well solo as I would in a coordinated squad.

And I find your reply questioning the legitimacy of my revised statement hilarious considering how tankers have even said in threads that vehicles shouldn't require teamwork, but AV should. So you either have a very biased perspective or you just lack competence. I assume both.

Also take a look at this:

You say that a majority of maps are in enclosed areas such as cities and complexes, meaning that infantry have lots of cover and can easily place a remote explosive onto the hull of an HAV.

Yet the only maps that actually fit your description are Iron Delta and Impact Ridge. Please refrain from lying about map design to make your argument(s) credible.

Please, wipe the windshield off of your tank and see things from a clear perspective. It usually helps.

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 0 post(s)
Himiko Kuronaga Fatal Absolution 2522	Posted - 2013.12.17 22:38:00 - [1] - Quote Tanks are pretty helpless against AV in the city. Infantry are pretty helpless against tanks outside of the city. How is this unbalanced again? And please try to keep broken game modes out of the equation. Skirmish is, and always has been, the only legitimate game mode for competitive play.
Jammer Jalapeno BIG BAD W0LVES 113	Posted - 2013.12.17 22:39:00 - [2] - Quote shhh everything is fine. The general population has not adapted yet. MmMmMm TanKs....delicious TanKs
Mithridates VI 2172	Posted - 2013.12.17 22:40:00 - [3] - Quote Yeah, all those walls to hide behind make it really hard to tanks to avoid AV. You're right. The Art of War IN SPACE
Mr CreepyPasta DUST University Ivy League 39	Posted - 2013.12.17 22:41:00 - [4] - Quote SOMEONE GETS IT!
Bazookah Tooth NECROM0NGERS Covert Intervention 394	Posted - 2013.12.17 22:41:00 - [5] - Quote Perhaps its because as the guns, tanks and tactics have changed the map design has stayed the same? Bigger badder tanks should equal more and better cover for infantry. "I believe it's a sin not to rule the world if you've been blessed with the strength!" Justice HMG for life
Himiko Kuronaga Fatal Absolution 2522	Posted - 2013.12.17 22:43:00 - [6] - Quote Mithridates VI wrote: Yeah, all those walls to hide behind make it really hard to tanks to avoid AV. You're right. If a tank is in the city his movement is restricted and he can be hit from nearly any angle or elevation. He also has to deal with infantry cover that he has no way of driving around for a better angle. Essentially, he is there to provide minimal support at great risk to himself. KINDA LIKE INFANTRY ON THE OUTSIDE. Game is balanced.
Mithridates VI 2172	Posted - 2013.12.17 22:44:00 - [7] - Quote Yeah, you say it's so, so it must be true! It's fortunate that cities don't provide any opportunities for tankers to break line of sight with attackers. The Art of War IN SPACE
Himiko Kuronaga Fatal Absolution 2522	Posted - 2013.12.17 22:45:00 - [8] - Quote Mithridates VI wrote: Yeah, you say it's so, so it must be true! Good, your learning. Now kiss my ring.
Son-Of A-Gun 3dge of D4rkness SoulWing Alliance 672	Posted - 2013.12.17 22:46:00 - [9] - Quote [key]sorry test post[/key] {:)}{3GÇó>
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 2199	Posted - 2013.12.17 22:54:00 - [10] - Quote Yeah, exept the tanks have what's called "Active Scanners" to prevent themselves from being ambushed while in cities, and the cover and tons of walls easily allow tankers to escape without even trying. Not that they ever had to try. Also, I answered something very similar to this a while back, so here: Atiim wrote: I don't need your hints. I've been using both HAVs and AV for more than half a year now. And those tactics require a very bad pilot (hint hint) And tell me, what part of that are you required to do? I can (and have) run my tanks solo and still managed to do just as well solo as I would in a coordinated squad. And I find your reply questioning the legitimacy of my revised statement hilarious considering how tankers have even said in threads that vehicles shouldn't require teamwork, but AV should. So you either have a very biased perspective or you just lack competence. I assume both. Also take a look at this: Fracture Road Spine Crescent Manus Peak Border Gulch Iron Delta Line Harvest Skim Junction Impact Ridge Ashland You say that a majority of maps are in enclosed areas such as cities and complexes, meaning that infantry have lots of cover and can easily place a remote explosive onto the hull of an HAV. Yet the only maps that actually fit your description are Iron Delta and Impact Ridge. Please refrain from lying about map design to make your argument(s) credible. Please, wipe the windshield off of your tank and see things from a clear perspective. It usually helps. DUST 514 just went full COD. Never go full COD.

Tech Ohm Eaven L.O.T.I.S. Public Disorder. 985	Posted - 2013.12.17 23:05:00 - [11] - Quote Himiko Kuronaga wrote: Tanks are pretty helpless against AV in the city. NO!! active scanners let me know where those red rabbits are. Infantry are pretty helpless against tanks outside of the city. YES!! and inside the city also!! How is this unbalanced again? And please try to keep broken game modes out of the equation. Skirmish is, and always has been, the only legitimate game mode for competitive play. Its UNBALANCED when a 0SP militia tank can get plenty of kills and ZIIIIP !! AWAY!! with no way for the infantry to either catch them or kill them. Abandon Ship!, Abandon Ship!! Jumps into escape pod! Selected destination Planet PS4.
AP Grasshopper The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 78	Posted - 2013.12.17 23:05:00 - [12] - Quote Bazookah Tooth wrote: Perhaps its because as the guns, tanks and tactics have changed the map design has stayed the same? Bigger badder tanks should equal more and better cover for infantry. Have you played the new gallente sockets?
Himiko Kuronaga Fatal Absolution 2522	Posted - 2013.12.17 23:06:00 - [13] - Quote Atiim wrote: Yeah, exept the tanks have what's called "Active Scanners" to prevent themselves from being ambushed while in cities, and the cover and tons of walls easily allow tankers to escape without even trying. Not that they ever had to try. Also, I answered something very similar to this a while back, so here: Atiim wrote: I don't need your hints. I've been using both HAVs and AV for more than half a year now. And those tactics require a very bad pilot (hint hint) And tell me, what part of that are you required to do? I can (and have) run my tanks solo and still managed to do just as well solo as I would in a coordinated squad. And I find your reply questioning the legitimacy of my revised statement hilarious considering how tankers have even said in threads that vehicles shouldn't require teamwork, but AV should. So you either have a very biased perspective or you just lack competence. I assume both. Also take a look at this: Fracture Road Spine Crescent Manus Peak Border Gulch Iron Delta Line Harvest Skim Junction Impact Ridge Ashland You say that a majority of maps are in enclosed areas such as cities and complexes, meaning that infantry have lots of cover and can easily place a remote explosive onto the hull of an HAV. Yet the only maps that actually fit your description are Iron Delta and Impact Ridge. Please refrain from lying about map design to make your argument(s) credible. Please, wipe the windshield off of your tank and see things from a clear perspective. It usually helps. Cover works both ways. Tank sits down below, exposed to gunfire, accomplishing nothing. Or tank runs through the city and accomplishes nothing. Either way, the tank accomplishes nothing. All threatening uplinks will be out of his reach, and he cannot hack objectives. Tank is nearly worthless there.
Keri Starlight 0uter.Heaven 1998	Posted - 2013.12.17 23:08:00 - [14] - Quote Tanks are fine, but tank spam is not. 100% Achura "I load my gun with love instead of bullets"
Himiko Kuronaga Fatal Absolution 2523	Posted - 2013.12.17 23:11:00 - [15] - Quote Keri Starlight wrote: Tanks are fine, but tank spam is not. Outside, tank spam is fine. Outside is the domain of vehicular combat. Nearly everybody outside SHOULD HAVE a vehicle. There is nothing wrong with that.
Goric Rumis Dead Six Initiative Lokun Listamenn 255	Posted - 2013.12.17 23:16:00 - [16] - Quote The problem is map design. (See Atiim's analysis of the maps above.) Tanks are allowed to be super tough if they are physically unable to dominate the landscape. The old maps need to be redesigned or decommissioned. But nobody wants that because you'd lose most of the maps in a game that's already a little weak on variety. Everything is dependent on everything else.
Himiko Kuronaga Fatal Absolution 2527	Posted - 2013.12.17 23:21:00 - [17] - Quote Line harvest is the only broken map as far as im concerned. One side gets a clear massive advantage, and its because it has two points with roof cover to block orbital pushes and the other side is entirely exposed.
Our Deepest Regret L.O.T.I.S. Public Disorder. 391	Posted - 2013.12.17 23:21:00 - [18] - Quote Atiim wrote: Yeah, exept the tanks have what's called "Active Scanners" to prevent themselves from being ambushed while in cities, and the cover and tons of walls easily allow tankers to escape without even trying. Not that they ever had to try. Also, I answered something very similar to this a while back, so here: I don't use active scanners on my fit. Wouldn't dream of sacrificing a high slot for it. That real estate is too prime.
Himiko Kuronaga Fatal Absolution 2527	Posted - 2013.12.17 23:26:00 - [19] - Quote Tech Ohm Eaven wrote: Himiko Kuronaga wrote: Tanks are pretty helpless against AV in the city. NO!! active scanners let me know where those red rabbits are. Infantry are pretty helpless against tanks outside of the city. YES!! and inside the city also!! How is this unbalanced again? And please try to keep broken game modes out of the equation. Skirmish is, and always has been, the only legitimate game mode for competitive play. Its UNBALANCED when a 0SP militia tank can get plenty of kills and ZIIIIP !! AWAY!! with no way for the infantry to either catch them or kill them. Full balance is for pussies. What you want is contrast. Besides that, who cares if you know where I am in the city because of your scanner? I know where you are too. And I can hit you. You can't hit me. The advantage is not yours.
Sgt Buttscratch 1173	Posted - 2013.12.17 23:29:00 - [20] - Quote Tanks are OP AV is UP Tanks need to be chnged to 1000hp shield and 1000 hp armor. Swarmer should have 1000m lock on and 500 dmg per missile. AV nades should do 3000 dmg Proxies 1000 dmg each Forge guns, standard 2500 dmg, 0.5s charge, Assault 2000 dmg 0.25s charge time, Breach 1 billion dmg, 3 second charge time, (note: forge damage stated is splash only, direct damage TBA) It's bullshit that we should have to use teamwork, timing, and fast damage to take down a tank. what happens if I dont have a team or a watch? I stick my weiner in two buns and and then give it the gas Sour cream from my spleen into Levi jeans

Eltra Ardell Goonfeet Top Men. 247	Posted - 2013.12.17 23:33:00 - [21] - Quote Tanks are more difficult to attack in the city; there are too many buildings and objects in the way to get a clear shot on one for more than a moment or two. It is much more difficult to sneak up on it without being nailed by infantry. With the large paths provided for vehicles, they can quickly escape. Unless you've used a dropship to fly on top of the tallest buildings, killing a tank in a city is not easy. Even when you're that high up, there's no guarantee you'll be able to do more than annoy the driver.
Monkey MAC Lost Millennium 1252	Posted - 2013.12.17 23:34:00 - [22] - Quote when you say 'balanced' do you mean its easier to kill them in cities? Or do you mean there are more places for infantry to hide? Because the second doesn't make it balanced! Tanks 514 I told you, I bloody well told you. Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl.1
R F Gyro Clones 4u 863	Posted - 2013.12.17 23:40:00 - [23] - Quote Himiko Kuronaga wrote: Tanks are pretty helpless against AV in the city. The problem boils down to most people choosing one style or the other. They are either a tanker, or infantry. This means that on most maps, one style is completely gimped. I suppose you could define "balanced" as "on half the maps tankers are ineffective and on the other half they are gods", but it wouldn't be my definition. Now, CCP could rework all the maps to support this kind of split battle. All it would really take is tunnels or decent cover to allow infantry to move relatively safely between complexes in an otherwise open battlefield. That I might support. RF Gyro: 12.5% damage bonus; 10.5% rate of fire bonus
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 2206	Posted - 2013.12.17 23:41:00 - [24] - Quote Himiko Kuronaga wrote: Cover works both ways. Tank sits down below, exposed to gunfire, accomplishing nothing. Or tank runs through the city and accomplishes nothing. Either way, the tank accomplishes nothing. All threatening uplinks will be out of his reach, and he cannot hack objectives. Tank is nearly worthless there. Yes, but only two maps actually fit the description, and the two maps that do fit your description are rarely ever played on(well, maybe that's just my end). And because of the low chance of being in said situation, it borders irrelevance. It's like me complaining about being beaten by Plasma Cannons. And the tank is the best at everything in every other situation, including AV. Who needs infantry anymore? To hack Nullsec Cannons? All you have to do is butcher the 150 (450 in PC) clones to win. (Though if you shred through 450 clones, the opponent clearly needs to "get good".) DUST 514 just went full COD. Never go full COD.
Himiko Kuronaga Fatal Absolution 2527	Posted - 2013.12.18 01:02:00 - [25] - Quote Atiim wrote: Himiko Kuronaga wrote: Cover works both ways. Tank sits down below, exposed to gunfire, accomplishing nothing. Or tank runs through the city and accomplishes nothing. Either way, the tank accomplishes nothing. All threatening uplinks will be out of his reach, and he cannot hack objectives. Tank is nearly worthless there. Yes, but only two maps actually fit the description, and the two maps that do fit your description are rarely ever played on(well, maybe that's just my end). And because of the low chance of being in said situation, it borders irrelevance. It's like me complaining about being beaten by Plasma Cannons. And the tank is the best at everything in every other situation, including AV. Who needs infantry anymore? To hack Nullsec Cannons? All you have to do is butcher the 150 (450 in PC) clones to win. (Though if you shred through 450 clones, the opponent clearly needs to "get good".) The maps that apply are the cargo hub, production facility, and research facility. There is one spot in the production facility where a tank can shoot someone off a point, but he is exposed to tower forge fire the entire time. And in PC there is nearly always tower forge fire. In the cargo hub, the tank is worthless inside the city unless it is the 3 point variation. Then he can play a bigger role, but again he is exposed to tower forge fire that he can't do anything about so its a death trap unless infantry have secured the high ground in his favor. Research facility, tank is worthless. He has to stay outside. All other maps? Who cares. They are pubs and were incredibly flawed to begin with.
HiddenBrother Days of Ruin 17	Posted - 2013.12.18 01:10:00 - [26] - Quote If you equip an active scanner; you'd have to drop the Nitro, or Damage mod. Ruin.


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