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Skihids
Bullet Cluster
Legacy Rising
2552
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Posted - 2013.12.17 13:41:00 -
[1] - Quote
So your scheme to reduce vehicle usage is to return to them to unprofitability?
You want to reignite the whole "My tank costs so much that it must be strong enough to last X matches, therefore it must be indestructible." argument?
You want to kill piloting as a viable full time profession?
How about we give it a couple more weeks to settle down before swinging the nerf bat on a whole role. I'm sure a lot of new pilots are trying them out because militia is now viable and not outrageously expensive.
I'm sure there are positive incentives to encourage mixed play and we don't need to use punishments. |
Skihids
Bullet Cluster
Legacy Rising
2552
|
Posted - 2013.12.17 14:10:00 -
[2] - Quote
It's easy to me ISK running militia infantry gear so why should vehicles be any different?
It's the only way to make piloting a viable full time role. It's that or it becomes an end game occupation indulged in occasionally only by old vets. They will come for dropships once they destroy tanks.
Let's let it settle down some and let CCP do some balancing. 1.7 is a complete rewrite and will need several passes to balance. |
Skihids
Bullet Cluster
Legacy Rising
2554
|
Posted - 2013.12.17 14:59:00 -
[3] - Quote
Mobius Wyvern wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Harpyja wrote:Like I've said many times now, nerf militia vehicles and modules and increase the SP gap. It should require SP investment to make a good fit, not this 0 SP Sica/Soma crap that's as effective as a 10mil SP Gunnlogi/Madrugar. Oh the difference between a 10 million sp hav and 0 million hav is markedly there no need to exacerbate proto stomping to tanks as well. Well, the truth is that it's less there than it was before, having now had the chance to try out the current balance for myself. A Soma being able to take down a Madrugar several times in a row is indicative of something being wrong, here. I mean, a Militia AR isn't expected to have the same stats as a STD AR, is it? Why should that then be the case with vehicles?
As a matter of fact MLT weapons DO have the same damage as STD weapons.
The difference comes in fitting costs. |
Skihids
Bullet Cluster
Legacy Rising
2554
|
Posted - 2013.12.17 15:10:00 -
[4] - Quote
Harpyja wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Harpyja wrote:Like I've said many times now, nerf militia vehicles and modules and increase the SP gap. It should require SP investment to make a good fit, not this 0 SP Sica/Soma crap that's as effective as a 10mil SP Gunnlogi/Madrugar. Oh the difference between a 10 million sp hav and 0 million hav is markedly there no need to exacerbate proto stomping to tanks as well. Why if infantry enjoyed the same type of interplay between prototype and milita havs do go through today, the complaints of proto stomping would evaporate to a much smaller pool of complaints. Sure there is, but it's limited to longer active times, shorter cooldown times, turret upgrades, and some PG/CPU reduction on modules. Everything else, like EHP and damage output, is the same. The reason why there's so many 0 SP tanks is because they have the same EHP as a dedicated tank and rival the firepower of a dedicated tank. People are complaining about militia tanks with 0 SP dominating the field, and this is how you fix the problem. Also by making skills affect more attributes, such as HP values and module efficacy. You can't really apply the same design for vehicles and infantry. Vehicles are inherently more powerful, so you might want to make their costs to entry higher. Otherwise you encounter the same problem of tank spam with 0 SP invested. Infantry is different, because everyone has to have a chance with infantry, with PRO offering only slight advantages but not enough such that PRO makes incompetent players win. Using economics, imagine infantry as perfect competition where everyone can choose to play infantry or back out. Vehicles, since they are more specialized roles, should err towards monopolistic competition. You'd want the dedicated players succeeding over the FOTMers with 0 SP. Sure this poses a problem with new aspiring pilots, but if they are dedicated enough they will go through the high costs of entry.
Vehicles aren't supposed to be more powerful than infantry overall. They are supposed to be more powerful for shorter periods of time and less powerful for the remainder to balance them out. That's where we need to put the effort. |
Skihids
Bullet Cluster
Legacy Rising
2554
|
Posted - 2013.12.17 16:22:00 -
[5] - Quote
CELTIC TARON wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Mobius Wyvern wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Harpyja wrote:Like I've said many times now, nerf militia vehicles and modules and increase the SP gap. It should require SP investment to make a good fit, not this 0 SP Sica/Soma crap that's as effective as a 10mil SP Gunnlogi/Madrugar. Oh the difference between a 10 million sp hav and 0 million hav is markedly there no need to exacerbate proto stomping to tanks as well. Well, the truth is that it's less there than it was before, having now had the chance to try out the current balance for myself. A Soma being able to take down a Madrugar several times in a row is indicative of something being wrong, here. I mean, a Militia AR isn't expected to have the same stats as a STD AR, is it? Why should that then be the case with vehicles? Yet I had a madrugar annihilate 8 soma and sicas in a row in a single match. Next Match a soma splits my tank in half all because he brought equipment that I was not ready for. The issue isn't so much soma's as sicas. You must understand being destroyed from a redline sica with double damage mods before you can even get behind cover (with hardener on after first hit) is a bit out there. We can't keep the hardener on at all times and even with it on it buys us one extra hit before we are destroyed. Redline Sica's with rail turrets are the problem mostly because it makes it near impossible for a "tanker" to come in and combat other enemy tanks that are close. You even get the occassional sica running double damage mods and armor hardeners close and personal, and you're dead before you get to do much. Poof there goes 500,000 isk in the blink of an eye.
And that's a redline problem not limited to tanks.
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