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BL4CKST4R
WarRavens League of Infamy
1368
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Posted - 2013.12.17 12:16:00 -
[1] - Quote
Just because a gun has equal DPS to other weapons does not mean it's balanced.
Let's use two iconic weapons from any MMO, a dagger vs a warhammer. The dagger has higher DPS than the warhammer but the dagger has shorter range and low burst damage while the warhammer has longer range and higher burst damage. What do these 3 things mean though?
Well DPS is obviously the sustained damage of said weapon, the range is the distance the damage is applied, and burst damage is the amount of damage the weapon does on the first hit.
Now let's apply this simple balanced concept to Dust and where it IS working and where it is NOT. Blaster tank vs rail tank. At close range the blaster tank wins due to higher DPS and faster turning speeds, at long range rail wins due to high burst damage and a damage range outside of the rail turret. Any gun vs a sniper rifle, at short range any gun can ill a sniper rifle, granted he doesn't use a side arm, at long range the sniper rifle will win (thale always wins that's the loophole ).
Where it doesn't work is in the light weapon range. For example the rail rifle can compete with any short range weapon at short range, but the contrary is not possible. Equally the DPS, range, and burst damage is out of whack with long range weapons being able to apply damage throughout the entirety of their range. In all of the above scenarios a long range weapon cannot beat a short range weapon at short range. Although the long range weapon has higher damage, the short range DPS out classes the high damage. This is how the light weapons should work, not just the rifles. Shotgun and laser rifle are the only exceptions.
Tl; dr/ summary
Short range = High DPS/Low damage/Low burst/Fast (Assault rifle, assault combat rifle, shotgun) Medium range= obviously in between all of this... (Combat rifle, Assault scrambler rifle, mass driver) Long range= Low DPS/High damage/High burst/Slow (All rail rifles, scrambler rifle, laser rifle)
Since all weapons have the same DPS, while long range weapons maintain the high burst damage while there is no penalty when they come to short range combat, except the scrambler, then long range weapons will always dominate the field.
To fix this reduce DPS, clip, and hip fire spread as range increases. Recoil should decrease as range increases but never be nonexistent. |
Korvin Lomont
United Pwnage Service RISE of LEGION
360
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Posted - 2013.12.17 12:19:00 -
[2] - Quote
BL4CKST4R wrote:Just because a gun has equal DPS to other weapons does not mean it's balanced. Let's use two iconic weapons from any MMO, a dagger vs a warhammer. The dagger has higher DPS than the warhammer but the dagger has shorter range and low burst damage while the warhammer has longer range and higher burst damage. What do these 3 things mean though? Well DPS is obviously the sustained damage of said weapon, the range is the distance the damage is applied, and burst damage is the amount of damage the weapon does on the first hit. Now let's apply this simple balanced concept to Dust and where it IS working and where it is NOT. Blaster tank vs rail tank. At close range the blaster tank wins due to higher DPS and faster turning speeds, at long range rail wins due to high burst damage and a damage range outside of the rail turret. Any gun vs a sniper rifle, at short range any gun can ill a sniper rifle, granted he doesn't use a side arm, at long range the sniper rifle will win (thale always wins that's the loophole ). Where it doesn't work is in the light weapon range. For example the rail rifle can compete with any short range weapon at short range, but the contrary is not possible. Equally the DPS, range, and burst damage is out of whack with long range weapons being able to apply damage throughout the entirety of their range. In all of the above scenarios a long range weapon cannot beat a short range weapon at short range. Although the long range weapon has higher damage, the short range DPS out classes the high damage. This is how the light weapons should work, not just the rifles. Shotgun and laser rifle are the only exceptions. Tl; dr/ summary Short range = High DPS/Low damage/Low burst/Fast (Assault rifle, assault combat rifle, shotgun) Medium range= obviously in between all of this... (Combat rifle, Assault scrambler rifle, mass driver) Long range= Low DPS/High damage/High burst/Slow (All rail rifles, scrambler rifle, laser rifle) Since all weapons have the same DPS, while long range weapons maintain the high burst damage while there is no penalty when they come to short range combat, except the scrambler, then long range weapons will always dominate the field. To fix this reduce DPS, clip, and hip fire spread as range increases. Recoil should decrease as range increases but never be nonexistent.
This is what I try to explain for quite some time now so +1 |
Sgt Buttscratch
1164
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Posted - 2013.12.17 12:32:00 -
[3] - Quote
So give the lazer rilfle lower DPS?
I stick my weiner in two buns and and then give it the gas
Sour cream from my spleen into Levi jeans
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Korvin Lomont
United Pwnage Service RISE of LEGION
360
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Posted - 2013.12.17 12:37:00 -
[4] - Quote
Sgt Buttscratch wrote:So give the lazer rilfle lower DPS?
The LR already has low DPS... |
BL4CKST4R
WarRavens League of Infamy
1372
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Posted - 2013.12.17 12:38:00 -
[5] - Quote
Sgt Buttscratch wrote:So give the lazer rilfle lower DPS?
Your missing the whole picture. Yes lower DPS but higher damage although the DPS is very low so in reality it's damage needs to be higher. The laser pointer will burn now.
Truth be told I don't know how DPS is calculated on the laser. |
The Robot Devil
Molon Labe. Public Disorder.
1321
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Posted - 2013.12.17 12:39:00 -
[6] - Quote
Korvin Lomont wrote:Sgt Buttscratch wrote:So give the lazer rilfle lower DPS? The LR already has low DPS...
The LR is the best weapon in the game is the reason it stats are like that. If you are good with it and can dictate range then noting can touch it. It is almost perfect.
No sympathy for the devil; keep that in mind. Buy the ticket, take the ride.
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Cat Merc
Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN.
4751
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Posted - 2013.12.17 12:41:00 -
[7] - Quote
I approve of this message. The AR is the most useless AR in 1.7 for that reason.
There is no reason to use it, seriously. I tried to find one.
Well, I found ONE, and that it's Gallente. Gallente Foreva :3
Shield regeneration bonus for Gallente Assault is about as useful as Sharpshooter for Nova Knives.
Tuna > Tacos
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Sgt Buttscratch
1167
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Posted - 2013.12.17 12:49:00 -
[8] - Quote
The Robot Devil wrote:Korvin Lomont wrote:Sgt Buttscratch wrote:So give the lazer rilfle lower DPS? The LR already has low DPS... The LR is the best weapon in the game is the reason it stats are like that. If you are good with it and can dictate range then noting can touch it. It is almost perfect.
Other than ASCR/SCR/RR out range and out DPS it, without needing to be pinpoint accurate.
I stick my weiner in two buns and and then give it the gas
Sour cream from my spleen into Levi jeans
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Beren Hurin
Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION
1922
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Posted - 2013.12.17 12:52:00 -
[9] - Quote
Korvin Lomont wrote:Sgt Buttscratch wrote:So give the lazer rilfle lower DPS? The LR already has low DPS...
At the 2nd second of continuous fire, the laser rifle has 67 base damage per hit which, with .08 shots per second that's 837 DPS. However that's 670 against armor, but 1000 DPS vs. shield. The proto version with max skills gets up to 450 damage per shot (5000+ DPS) in the last second before overheat. The advantage of the laser is that it is crazily precise, but that is also a downside too. It's almost like the dispersion cone is harder to dodge from other auto fire weapons. |
Beren Hurin
Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION
1922
|
Posted - 2013.12.17 12:53:00 -
[10] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote:I approve of this message. The AR is the most useless AR in 1.7 for that reason.
There is no reason to use it, seriously. I tried to find one.
Well, I found ONE, and that it's Gallente. Gallente Foreva :3
Gallente AR on gallente suit can get the best DPS:tank ratio. Thanks to their fitting cost. |
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Cenex Langly
0uter.Heaven
509
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Posted - 2013.12.17 12:59:00 -
[11] - Quote
Sounds like a reasonable adjustment. Hopefully this will make those rail rifles not viable for close combat and combat rifles/AR's viable for close combat but not for long range where the rail will dominate.
Newb
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Fizzer94
L.O.T.I.S. Public Disorder.
1245
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Posted - 2013.12.17 13:14:00 -
[12] - Quote
Beren Hurin wrote:Korvin Lomont wrote:Sgt Buttscratch wrote:So give the lazer rilfle lower DPS? The LR already has low DPS... At the 2nd second of continuous fire, the laser rifle has 67 base damage per hit which, with .08 shots per second that's 837 DPS. However that's 670 against armor, but 1000 DPS vs. shield. The proto version with max skills gets up to 450 damage per shot (5000+ DPS) in the last second before overheat. The advantage of the laser is that it is crazily precise, but that is also a downside too. It's almost like the dispersion cone is harder to dodge from other auto fire weapons. That's great and all, but the other weapons will kill you in < 1 second.
Fizzer94 // Level 1 Forum Warrior // The Plasma Cannon is not as good as it once was.
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BL4CKST4R
WarRavens League of Infamy
1373
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Posted - 2013.12.17 13:29:00 -
[13] - Quote
Fizzer94 wrote:Beren Hurin wrote:Korvin Lomont wrote:Sgt Buttscratch wrote:So give the lazer rilfle lower DPS? The LR already has low DPS... At the 2nd second of continuous fire, the laser rifle has 67 base damage per hit which, with .08 shots per second that's 837 DPS. However that's 670 against armor, but 1000 DPS vs. shield. The proto version with max skills gets up to 450 damage per shot (5000+ DPS) in the last second before overheat. The advantage of the laser is that it is crazily precise, but that is also a downside too. It's almost like the dispersion cone is harder to dodge from other auto fire weapons. That's great and all, but the other weapons will kill you in < 1 second.
That's why the laser rifle should have range second only to the sniper rifle. |
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