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J'Jor Da'Wg
KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION
970
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Posted - 2013.12.17 01:31:00 -
[1] - Quote
We all know heavies are rather gimped at the moment in regards to effectiveness, especially with all these rifles that seem to be designed for tearing apart the heavy suit.
Heavy suits are supposed to be "able to withstand combined small arms fire..." But yet in many ways they are ill suited to infantry combat. Their lack of slots, sluggishness, and lack of a complete suit and weapon roster make them sub optimal.
My thought is this: a slight buff to the Heavy suit... By altering the way it's hitboxes work. What if the Heavy suit recieved a percentage resistance to light and sidearm weaponry by skill level.. BUT only when said fire was hitting the FRONT of the suit?
Keep the slow pace and lack of slots... But make it so that the Heavy takes, say, 50% to 35% less damage from the front. Attacking a heavy from the back would still be the same. Perhaps it could even by slightly weaker.
In this way, Heavies would be encouraged to stand and fight and face the enemy as the suit was originally intended, however if the enemy players work to flank and take advantage of the Heavy suit's weaknesses, it would still be balanced. Attacking a Heavy suit head on would become very stupid, but would remain balanced because the suits other weaknesses would make up for it.
I believe with this implementation, we would find a resurgence in anti infantry heavies. Now they would be able to take some punishment without getting gibbed by a ton of headshots on their huge hitboxes. Flanking the heavy would remove its advantage, and using teamwork to split the heavies attention would work just as well.
Percentage of resistance is up to discussion but I think a rather high percentage per level (say, 10%) would give heavies the "feel" of power without actually tipping them into the OP realm.
My forum forge gun has a 1000% damage bonus against stupid posts
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drake sadani
Namtar Elite Gallente Federation
96
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Posted - 2013.12.17 01:40:00 -
[2] - Quote
i like this idea . the heavy would excel at clearing buildings and CQC areas . but if he just stormed in he would die .
to add a little kick however could we perhaps discus a vehicle only forge gun for dealing with tanks . i understand that tanks are tanks . but i spent 9 rounds on a MLT tank using a 9k and a heavy weapons mod plus av grenades .
a short range falcon punch forge gun for tank fighting would be nice.
as for anti infantry the heavy needs a slight weapons buff as well . i don't care if its one gun for shields and then another gun for armor |
J'Jor Da'Wg
KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION
974
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Posted - 2013.12.17 01:42:00 -
[3] - Quote
drake sadani wrote:i like this idea . the heavy would excel at clearing buildings and CQC areas . but if he just stormed in he would die .
to add a little kick however could we perhaps discus a vehicle only forge gun for dealing with tanks . i understand that tanks are tanks . but i spent 9 rounds on a MLT tank using a 9k and a heavy weapons mod plus av grenades .
a short range falcon punch forge gun for tank fighting would be nice.
as for anti infantry the heavy needs a slight weapons buff as well . i don't care if its one gun for shields and then another gun for armor
Thats my thought. A heavy would become a "wall". But... A wall doesn't move well, and gets surrounded easy. A good heavy would use teamwork and protect his flanks... Making him the force multiplier he was supposed to be. Bad heavies would die just as easy.
My forum forge gun has a 1000% damage bonus against stupid posts
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J'Jor Da'Wg
KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION
975
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Posted - 2013.12.17 04:14:00 -
[4] - Quote
I hate to bump but I feel like more people need to see this. If you like it, comment as well to keep this on top of GD and get CCP to see it.
My forum forge gun has a 1000% damage bonus against stupid posts
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Disturbingly Bored
The Strontium Asylum
1282
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Posted - 2013.12.17 04:22:00 -
[5] - Quote
My favorite solution was similar, but a bit simpler: immunity to headshots from the front.
Then it isn't some weird skill thing, and it removes the most reliable method people use to drop heavies toe to toe.
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Cosgar
ParagonX
8803
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Posted - 2013.12.17 04:24:00 -
[6] - Quote
We need to stop trying to balance the heavy based on one racial suit tree. We need more racial symmetry before anything can really be done. I don't really think the suit is the problem, but rather the HMG. But with that said, if we buff the HMG, what's to say it won't be OP on the Minmatar heavy and likewise if we buff the Amarr suit and it becomes OP with its own racial weapon? Having all the racial suits and at least one racial anti-infantry and one AV weapon for each would paint a clearer picture of what needs and doesn't need to be done about the heavy and its weapons. But for the time being, the HMG needs it's dispersion fixed so it's not so laser accurate.
I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
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PARKOUR PRACTIONER
Redline Defense Force Seekers of the Unseen
27
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Posted - 2013.12.17 04:26:00 -
[7] - Quote
Like the idea too, no nerf hammer. Heavies are supposed to take lots of damage before dropping, not drop as quickly as other supposedly weaker suits. This is coming from a 90% of the time scout. It's not nerfing, or making the heavies immortal, (like the tanks), its just making some edits without making the game unfair and keeping it reasonable. -I want my silenced pistol CCP. -That is all.
'Don't talk to strangers, shoot them.' Snow LOCKOUT
Knives are my thing.
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Roger Cordill
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY
275
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Posted - 2013.12.17 04:41:00 -
[8] - Quote
message from Godin: take away the skill level thing, and make it for the sentinel frames, then I'm in. |
Darken-Sol
BIG BAD W0LVES
853
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Posted - 2013.12.17 04:59:00 -
[9] - Quote
Just put them back to chromosome standards. I think we all agree thats the last time they were good. |
Cosgar
ParagonX
8808
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Posted - 2013.12.17 04:59:00 -
[10] - Quote
Darken-Sol wrote:Just put them back to chromosome standards. I think we all agree thats the last time they were good. Replication?
I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
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GET ATMESON
Dem Durrty Boyz Renegade Alliance
189
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Posted - 2013.12.17 05:01:00 -
[11] - Quote
J'Jor Da'Wg wrote: We all know heavies are rather gimped at the moment in regards to effectiveness, especially with all these rifles that seem to be designed for tearing apart the heavy suit.
Heavy suits are supposed to be "able to withstand combined small arms fire..." But yet in many ways they are ill suited to infantry combat. Their lack of slots, sluggishness, and lack of a complete suit and weapon roster make them sub optimal.
My thought is this: a slight buff to the Heavy suit... By altering the way it's hitboxes work. What if the Heavy suit recieved a percentage resistance to light and sidearm weaponry by skill level.. BUT only when said fire was hitting the FRONT of the suit?
Keep the slow pace and lack of slots... But make it so that the Heavy takes, say, 50% to 35% less damage from the front. Attacking a heavy from the back would still be the same. Perhaps it could even by slightly weaker.
In this way, Heavies would be encouraged to stand and fight and face the enemy as the suit was originally intended, however if the enemy players work to flank and take advantage of the Heavy suit's weaknesses, it would still be balanced. Attacking a Heavy suit head on would become very stupid, but would remain balanced because the suits other weaknesses would make up for it.
I believe with this implementation, we would find a resurgence in anti infantry heavies. Now they would be able to take some punishment without getting gibbed by a ton of headshots on their huge hitboxes. Flanking the heavy would remove its advantage, and using teamwork to split the heavies attention would work just as well.
Percentage of resistance is up to discussion but I think a rather high percentage per level (say, 10%) would give heavies the "feel" of power without actually tipping them into the OP realm.
I like your idea but CCP didnt come up with it so it wont happen, If it does it will be SOONtm
Heavys only have 2 heavy guns. Please dont turn the NERF bat on them. Give heavys more suits or guns soonGäó
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Darken-Sol
BIG BAD W0LVES
853
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Posted - 2013.12.17 05:02:00 -
[12] - Quote
Cosgar wrote:Darken-Sol wrote:Just put them back to chromosome standards. I think we all agree thats the last time they were good. Replication?
I wasn't here for that, but chrome heavies were awesome to fight. |
Lanius Pulvis
Kinsho Swords Caldari State
114
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Posted - 2013.12.17 05:02:00 -
[13] - Quote
Cosgar wrote:We need to stop trying to balance the heavy based on one racial suit tree. We need more racial symmetry before anything can really be done. I don't really think the suit is the problem, but rather the HMG. But with that said, if we buff the HMG, what's to say it won't be OP on the Minmatar heavy and likewise if we buff the Amarr suit and it becomes OP with its own racial weapon? Having all the racial suits and at least one racial anti-infantry and one AV weapon for each would paint a clearer picture of what needs and doesn't need to be done about the heavy and its weapons. But for the time being, the HMG needs it's dispersion fixed so it's not so laser accurate. While I agree with this, the development on the additional suits and weapons is far from finished. The OPs suggestion though is an elegant short term solution and should be doable as a hot-fix since it's simple hit registration mechanics. I hate to advocate for expediency over thoroughness, but the timelines on this game seem exceptionally long. +1 OP
Not new, just new to you.
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Vyzion Eyri
The Southern Legion The Umbra Combine
2227
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Posted - 2013.12.17 05:08:00 -
[14] - Quote
Love the idea but the problem is it will make you invulnerable in 1v1 situations if you are an AR heavy. Make it all around resistance, bonus resistance to the front, unable to take headshot damage, but make heavy weapon slot only be able to equip heavy weapons.
This can be the sentinel variant, whereas the basic heavy frame can stay how it is.
"When nothing is going your way, go out of your way to do nothing."
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ZeHealingHurts HurtingHeals
Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State
680
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Posted - 2013.12.17 05:45:00 -
[15] - Quote
I can't help but think this would be an obvious FOTM. That's a big decrease in damage received with obvious counters to the negatives (the scanners that nobody uses and/or simply having a McHeavy's squad) that it seems wrong. Maybe with a lower resistance percentage. I don't know, it's late and I can't even type correctly.
I'm gonna like that guy who said to just remove the headshot multiplier from the front. I like that idea.
CCP, Geth Infiltrator is OP! plz nerf.
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RA Drahcir
Psygod9 D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
309
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Posted - 2013.12.17 05:54:00 -
[16] - Quote
Sentinel is garbage. Exactly why I specced into MinLogi. I think CCP wants everyone to run tanks instead of HMGs. |
Awry Barux
Paladin Survey Force Amarr Empire
422
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Posted - 2013.12.17 05:54:00 -
[17] - Quote
What if the heavy stands in a corner? |
Cosgar
ParagonX
8809
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Posted - 2013.12.17 05:54:00 -
[18] - Quote
Lanius Pulvis wrote:Cosgar wrote:We need to stop trying to balance the heavy based on one racial suit tree. We need more racial symmetry before anything can really be done. I don't really think the suit is the problem, but rather the HMG. But with that said, if we buff the HMG, what's to say it won't be OP on the Minmatar heavy and likewise if we buff the Amarr suit and it becomes OP with its own racial weapon? Having all the racial suits and at least one racial anti-infantry and one AV weapon for each would paint a clearer picture of what needs and doesn't need to be done about the heavy and its weapons. But for the time being, the HMG needs it's dispersion fixed so it's not so laser accurate. While I agree with this, the development on the additional suits and weapons is far from finished. The OPs suggestion though is an elegant short term solution and should be doable as a hot-fix since it's simple hit registration mechanics. I hate to advocate for expediency over thoroughness, but the timelines on this game seem exceptionally long. +1 OP The problem with the OPs suggestion is that when there's more racial symmetry and the heavy just happens to become OP as a side effect. Instead of taking a wrench to fix the problem like removing something like the OP's suggestion, and reevaluating from there, they'll take a sledgehammer to the heavy and we'll be back to square one. I'm in no way disagreeing that the heavy class as a whole needs work, but it's hard to tell when we only have the Amarr heavy.
I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
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