DUST Search - [Request]No "Death" until you loose your clone.

Aeon Amadi wrote:

Bethhy wrote:

-This would fix needle spam pick up's and make them relevant as it could extend your clone termination timer, And would preserve player's raged about "KD/R's" and actually have them asking for a pick up as it would save their suit investment ISK.

Also will give an awesome dynamic for players to finish off "Downed" mercenaries to make sure they are truly dead.

I think the player that "Downed" the Mercenary should get credit for a kill. However the "Downed" Mercenary should not get penalized for a death until his clone is officially terminated.

Obviously there would have to be safe guard's put in place to prevent farming, Might i suggest a TKO rule where 3 "downs" in a 10 second window and your clone is lost? I'm sure you guy's have a good developer's bag of trick's to use for safeguards better then my suggestion.

-As it is slightly connected but would improve Ambush competition and the game mode massively. Mercenaries spawning into Ambush modes uses up one of the clones from the 50,80 totals. And it is the last man standing wins.

Often in Ambush one side will reach 0 clones before the other... Then the fight will continue until only one side is alive... Often the loosing side will pull together at the end and clone out the winning side before the match end's only to receive a loss. If every clone counted in Ambush and it was truly last man standing.. The game mode would really shine again.

Thanks for your consideration,
Bethy

I've always liked the aspect of killing a "downed" mercenary. Certain joy comes from it, honestly. I've proposed it in the past but I kinda want to see what your thoughts are on it, Bethy: How's about a small WP reward "confirming" a kill? Say like, 10 WP for making sure the guy is dead?


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Bethhy Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance 474	Posted - 2013.12.17 01:12:00 - [1] - Quote -This would fix needle spam pick up's and make them relevant as it could extend your clone termination timer, And would preserve player's raged about "KD/R's" and actually have them asking for a pick up as it would save their suit investment ISK. Also will give an awesome dynamic for players to finish off "Downed" mercenaries to make sure they are truly dead. I think the player that "Downed" the Mercenary should get credit for a kill. However the "Downed" Mercenary should not get penalized for a death until his clone is officially terminated. Obviously there would have to be safe guard's put in place to prevent farming, Might i suggest a TKO rule where 3 "downs" in a 10 second window and your clone is lost? I'm sure you guy's have a good developer's bag of trick's to use for safeguards better then my suggestion. -As it is slightly connected but would improve Ambush competition and the game mode massively. Mercenaries spawning into Ambush modes uses up one of the clones from the 50,80 totals. And it is the last man standing wins. Often in Ambush one side will reach 0 clones before the other... Then the fight will continue until only one side is alive... Often the loosing side will pull together at the end and clone out the winning side before the match end's only to receive a loss. If every clone counted in Ambush and it was truly last man standing.. The game mode would really shine again. Thanks for your consideration, Bethy
Bethhy Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance 478	Posted - 2013.12.17 01:30:00 - [2] - Quote Patrick57 wrote: +1, but then the only problem would be that those who have died once the clone count reaches zero would be stuck waiting for the match to end. This already happens, and it is very annoying :3 Yes it is. One day I hope to be able to view that mercenary in camera mode as we sit and wait. Would get everyone on comm's routing for one side or the other. Also allow for massive learning potential to someone not fully comfortable with DUST to watch different playstyles of players. Would be cool looking from the Big overall map and be able to select a mercenary to first person view. until then Ambush truly being last man standing and a simple view of the overall map is enough for me to wait knowing that they might potentially pull out the win.
Bethhy Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance 478	Posted - 2013.12.17 01:36:00 - [3] - Quote Patrick57 wrote: Bethhy wrote: Patrick57 wrote: +1, but then the only problem would be that those who have died once the clone count reaches zero would be stuck waiting for the match to end. This already happens, and it is very annoying :3 Yes it is. One day I hope to be able to view that mercenary in camera mode as we sit and wait. Would get everyone on comm's routing for one side or the other. Also allow for massive learning potential to someone not fully comfortable with DUST to watch different playstyles of players. Would be cool looking from the Big overall map and be able to select a mercenary to first person view. until then Ambush truly being last man standing and a simple view of the overall map is enough for me to wait knowing that they might potentially pull out the win. Unfortunately stuff like that is far away from Dust. It even took Dice (or whoever designed the game) until BF4 to introduce that, who KNOWS how long it'll take Dust. That would be a very neat and good idea though Yes it would. We still get the big overall Deployment and orbital map screen when cloned out, zoomed in you can see a decent overlay of what is happening while your waiting. Some slight tweaks and that would be more then sufficient until the Developers really get to what they consider fun, not content but... Innovation.
Bethhy Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance 495	Posted - 2013.12.17 04:46:00 - [4] - Quote DootDoot wrote: +1 for both, one of the most unique amazing factors of this game is the whole explanation around clones. More emphasis on this premise would only enhance this experience in DUST 514. As a Minmatar Logistics, I hate getting yelled at or feeling guilty for sacrificing a players score using my equipment to try and save that player money. This would allow me to fulfill my role of a Logistics much better, making the need to even use my gun less and less.. Which is truly what i feel Logistics are for, to revive, heal and support while slayer classes work their craft. Any meaning to ambush for a Logistics, like the last man standing recommendation with clones feeling actually important will make that game mode a lot more exciting. As Ambush is currently for myself and my role, it isn't as enjoyable as Domination and Skirmish game modes where the pursuit of the win is an involved process.
Bethhy Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance 498	Posted - 2013.12.17 17:20:00 - [5] - Quote General Erick wrote: Who here gives a **** about their K/D? I sure as hell don't. Yes some feel as you do and some will actually invest their ISK to improve their scores and results.. to each their own. Rewarding someone with a needle and not penalizing the person who waits, hopefully thus making a time in DUST when everyone waits to be picked up until their clone is terminated with a few priority exceptions. And refreshing Ambush mode bringing some enjoyment back into it.
Bethhy Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance 504	Posted - 2013.12.18 00:07:00 - [6] - Quote Vulpes Dolosus wrote: Wholly agree with the needle point. Disagree with at the ambush change because you'll get people (like me!) who are the last ones standing in a proto-pubstomp and are running away to save a suit. If I hide the game will go on indefinitely, and if there's a timer then it's what we have now. The 15 minute timer in Ambush should always be present In my opinion, possibly leaving a "match draw" option if two are still left. I would much rather Omniscient sight granted when there is only a 1vs1 left So those two people can find each other quick and easy and enjoy the true 1vs1 dynamic pulling out the Match Win in a clutch performance. Thus creating memorable experiences and moment's in DUST.
Bethhy Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance 506	Posted - 2013.12.18 01:29:00 - [7] - Quote Bethhy wrote: I would much rather Omniscient sight granted when there is only a 1vs1 left So those two people can find each other quick and easy and enjoy the true 1vs1 dynamic pulling out the Match Win in a clutch performance. Thus creating memorable experiences and moment's in DUST. Dustbunny Durrr wrote: If it does get down to 1v1 tho, whats to stop one player from hiding from the other, especially if they believe they are weaker. Good Lord, I've spent too much time with Goonswarm, the first thing I think about any tactic is how to abuse it, lol. Omniscient meaning both players can see each other permanently as soon as it get's to that player count. Allowing for one player to chase the other one down, or both players to go for the win and many other options. Allowing for a lot of different dynamic's but counterable by all parties. This of course may be more complicated on CCP's developing end then my biased gamer mind could comprehend, but I would hope it do-able.
Bethhy Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance 511	Posted - 2013.12.18 16:08:00 - [8] - Quote bump
Bethhy Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance 623	Posted - 2014.01.02 00:02:00 - [9] - Quote Dustbunny Durrr wrote: Bethhy wrote: Bethhy wrote: I would much rather Omniscient sight granted when there is only a 1vs1 left So those two people can find each other quick and easy and enjoy the true 1vs1 dynamic pulling out the Match Win in a clutch performance. Thus creating memorable experiences and moment's in DUST. Dustbunny Durrr wrote: If it does get down to 1v1 tho, whats to stop one player from hiding from the other, especially if they believe they are weaker. Good Lord, I've spent too much time with Goonswarm, the first thing I think about any tactic is how to abuse it, lol. Omniscient meaning both players can see each other permanently as soon as it get's to that player count. Allowing for one player to chase the other one down, or both players to go for the win and many other options. Allowing for a lot of different dynamic's but counterable by all parties. This of course may be more complicated on CCP's developing end then my biased gamer mind could comprehend, but I would hope it do-able. I'm not against the idea, I'd actually be for it, if not for the ability to abuse the system and waste people's time. Think 3 heavy forge gunners set up shop atop a tall building. Who wants to call in a dropship and try and get them off? Not I. Or a scout suit running away from a heavy (around objects, keeping the divide always between the two). If you figure out a way to stop stuff like that, then I'm all in for the idea. We already wait... and some for several minutes while the Ambush wraps up. Doing it for a reason or actually having the clones matter would make it almost like another game mode. Even if we moved the 50 Clone ambush under this format to a separate Game mode and called it "Last Clone Standing" Would offer a dynamic game mode with little Developer Time Investment.
Bethhy Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance 626	Posted - 2014.01.02 00:45:00 - [10] - Quote Talos Vagheitan wrote: I believe battlefield uses the system you propose, (being revived erases your death). Pro's and Con's I suppose. If you defeat a player 1v1 it's simple, you get 1 kill, he gets 1 death. If he is revived, healed to 100% comes at you again, and loses again, shouldn't he have 2 deaths? He fairly lost 2 engagements. The only issue is getting shot 1 second after being revived. What's really fair here? Here is my solution: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1488496#post1488496 Along with other improvements to the Nanite Injector, I would make it so for 10 seconds after you are revived, you are still on the same 'life'. If you are re-killed within 10 seconds of a revive, there will be no death or kill added to either players records. If it's a 1 vs 1 people will start shooting the "Downed" Clone to make sure he/she is truly "Dead". This will become a thing in DUST across the board a dynamic where people will try to finish off a "Downed" opponent to make sure they are truly "Dead" "Imagine the PC Dynamic, clone pack numbers become more viable even" Death's are a staple of every FPS game out there. But DUST has a unique Clone aspect. You officially don't die until your consciousness is transferred into a new clone, that doesn't reflect on our score sheets as Mercenaries. If no one is officially "Dieing" when someone is needle spamming a clone in the middle of the fight then all parties are fine with picking the mercenary up. Is it abusable? yes. but it is right now anyway and has been since Beta.. And when all parties can benefit from it in different ways then it is balanced?. The Person Shooting the Mercenary is fine with it. The Mercenary getting "Downed" has a potential to save their Suit investment while loosing no personal stats they bought the initial suit to improve on originally. And the Needle user is fine with continuing to pick up the Mercenary with clear conscience as long as they are alive to do so. This will create a dynamic amoungst Needle users and "Downed" Mercenaries alike to wait for the full clone expirary timer in most instances and create the Trust between needle users and needle receivers.

Bethhy Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance 653	Posted - 2014.01.03 03:05:00 - [11] - Quote Komodo Jones wrote: 50 points for a down and an extra 5 for making sure they're terminated? I mean technically you did get gunned down to the point where you've flatlined but I get it and it would make for more interesting gameplay than just immediately respawning when you get shot down. Yup and 60 for the Headshot kill, as it is now.. because you terminated them in one action.
Bethhy Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance 657	Posted - 2014.01.03 03:52:00 - [12] - Quote Vicious Minotaur wrote: What about other methods of killing that also negate the possibility of being revived? Like grenades, forge guns... etc? Should they get 60, like a headshot kill, or just 50 (or a middle ground)? Though extra war points for those methods could increase spam... (Such as for grenades) And I would very much like a "last clone standing" mechanic, even in skirmish/domination. It would only be used in cases where one team is being cloned out. IMO AOE should never get rewarded for effort based points. that is a biased opinion however.
Bethhy Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance 684	Posted - 2014.01.05 02:05:00 - [13] - Quote Scheneighnay McBob wrote: No. 1. KDR is meaningless, anyway 2. The death statistic is there to show that you where the one the logis are risking their asses for. KDR is meaningless for some, and then some will invest their ISK actively to increase their personal statistics. KDR in games like CoD and BF are much worthless as its just a mark on your personal Epeen, In DUST however your KDR shows how successful you are at destroying assets versus loosing them. It's important because a huge premise of the game drives around KDR. The Death Statistic isn't being actually represented in DUST 514. As none of us truly "Die" until our clone is terminated, giving absolute meaning to this premise in the game is something almost every aspect of DUST is crying for.
Bethhy Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance 834	Posted - 2014.01.15 23:59:00 - [14] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: This would turn people ordinarily obsessed with nothing but K/D into people who valued good logistics. I approve. Hopefully this is still on the radar for the 1.8 patch it would greatly improve gameplay for logi's and squads.
Bethhy Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance 850	Posted - 2014.01.16 21:19:00 - [15] - Quote
Bethhy Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance 871	Posted - 2014.01.19 21:17:00 - [16] - Quote VikingKong iBUN wrote: I concur with the needle thing - its simply real stupid that in one life we can die multiple times.
Bethhy Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance 947	Posted - 2014.01.26 04:00:00 - [17] - Quote Nothing Certain wrote: I'm sure some spelling **** has pointed out it is lose, not loose, but just in case...
Bethhy Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance 1029	Posted - 2014.02.01 03:12:00 - [18] - Quote DootDoot wrote: needs to be 1st page Here is hoping it's on the dev's list of things to do.
Bethhy Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance 1041	Posted - 2014.02.01 13:15:00 - [19] - Quote Moonracer2000 wrote: A possible solution to the "last man standing problem would be to cut the mission timer short at certain clone counts. For example something like: 10 minutes left in a match and team B has 10 clones, drop the time down to 5 minutes remaining. 5 clones left, drop the clock to 3 minutes remaining. If it is already below that, no change. Enough time to clear the map if everyone is fighting but not enough for the match to drag if people are playing cat and mouse. Admittedly some of those cat and mouse moments are fun, but this would largely ramp up the tension of Ambush (which is supposed to be fast paced) and compliment the clone count idea. I Like that
Bethhy Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance 1057	Posted - 2014.02.03 15:34:00 - [20] - Quote

Bethhy Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance 1062	Posted - 2014.02.03 20:45:00 - [21] - Quote -snip-
Bethhy Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance 1062	Posted - 2014.02.03 20:46:00 - [22] - Quote al nize mk2 wrote: If you are shot down then you should take the death stat even if you're revived. But 5 WP for finishing off a downed clone makes sense. And extra points for total-deaths like the headshot seems fair. Headshots getting 60 WP is good because it's a skill. 55 WP for other kinds of instant finishes would be fair. Also - I think it's a great idea to keep the match going until the last man standing. To prevent people hiding it would make sense that the radar becomes completlely transparent - or even more fun why not reduce the size of the combat zone in these circumstances? Any reason you should take a "death"? for being "shot down" ?
Bethhy Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance 1082	Posted - 2014.02.05 16:47:00 - [23] - Quote Artificer Ghost wrote: I don't remember ever liking this post, but you can keep my +1 for a decent idea. :P
Bethhy Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance 1093	Posted - 2014.02.05 18:53:00 - [24] - Quote D legendary hero wrote: +1, signed. Now if we can only get one of the idea's blue tagged like you lovely post :(
Bethhy Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance 1108	Posted - 2014.02.07 02:43:00 - [25] - Quote Ryme Intrinseca wrote: Vulpes makes a great point, there would be even less reason to respawn when you're on the wrong side of a pubstomp as you'd know if you spawn you're definitely going to die (and lose a suit). So it would make pubstomps even more one sided by giving stompers an extra numerical advantage. As for the 15 minute timer, there is very little chance that you can evade a 16 man pub stomp team for the remainder of the game, which is probably around ten minutes. And if you did, it would be incredibly tedious for everyone concerned, especially as it wouldn't make any difference to the outcome. People would not spawn rather than risk facing this scenario. Really love the needle idea though so +1s all round. (If only)Hopefully with the new needle mechanics, and a renamed "Last Clone Standing" game mode. Tied in with the upcoming racial parity choices with specialized logistic roles, even ADV suits may pose decent competition for any squad with using all the equipment and the games being more competitive and prolonged based around the new possible clone significance. Yes there will be sometimes a hopeless situation where 1 is facing a team of quality players, but that happens right now as it is anyway. And in some cases having a squad of 2-6 left in a strategic place has the potential easily to wipe out the other team with well executed timing. Offering clutch game performances and very memorable moment to moment situations in DUST, adding to the gameplay and overall enjoyment. I believe a good collection of suggestions have been made in this post to fill some of the exploitable holes in the possible game mode. Thanks for your feedback.
Bethhy Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance 1130	Posted - 2014.02.08 16:39:00 - [26] - Quote
Bethhy Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance 1164	Posted - 2014.02.11 05:42:00 - [27] - Quote up
Bethhy Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance 1180	Posted - 2014.02.11 16:10:00 - [28] - Quote Kitt 514 wrote: Here's my .02 No. As nice as it would be to have a better KDR (I play with decent logi), the death amount is essentially saying that you were, indeed, bested in combat. That is your stat. Who you bested, versus who bested you. Think of it like how aerial "kills" or victories are counted. Pilots would measure their kills by number of victories. Planes downed, not pilots killed. People got shot down all the time without dying, but the enemy still got a kill for it. You also start getting it to where there are more kills generated in a game than there are deaths. This is stupid for several reasons, but essentially, it waters down your KDR to the point where everybody then has a good KDR. If anybody knows what an EVE killboard is, you know what i'm talking about. KDR is the measured stat in DUST like how ISK efficiency is in EVE. But EVERYBODY in eve has like %90 ISK efficiency. So the stat doesn't matter outside of individual battles because it is much easier to gain ISK damage done than ISK damage received. So when your "Downed" and you haven't officially died you should get a death anyway because someone bested you? Even though all they would have to do to finish you off is shoot your incapacitated clone on the ground? Pilots and victories better fit's this scenario. As we are rewarding people who get a victory without the full kill but the player that didn't die can still jump back into the battle and perform with his clone and statistically have his life still to do so. We have matches where 50 clones create 150+ deaths... And that is less silly? It would make 100 times more sense to have a match where kills are rewarded for downing a clone and extra for finishing them off. Stopping someone dieing 3-4 times from poor needle pickups isn't gonna create an Assist = Kill statistical padding problem that EVE has... where as if you helped you get near as much credit as if you soloed. I Do beleive Assist's in DUST should be a measurable stat on a mercenaries record but thats as far as that goes. There is no Killboard padding from this... everyone will be in the same fair boat.... Instead of the same poor needle gameplay that hurts so much of the team work gameplay.
Bethhy Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance 1199	Posted - 2014.02.13 17:51:00 - [29] - Quote up
Bethhy Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance 1209	Posted - 2014.02.14 01:22:00 - [30] - Quote Cross Atu wrote: +1 OP, this would make KDR hold some actual meaning instead of being the terribad stat it is at present. I would still also like to see other stats added which sub-divide the current KDR into several more worthwhile stats (WP/Death, ISK destroyed / ISK lost, friendly HP repped / death, etc etc) but with the suggested changes from the OP at least the end of match leader board would be more meaningful. As it currently stands you can have a guy lone wolfing the whole match, costing the team more clones than anyone else but coming out looking like he did the most work because of his displayed KDR. I Merc who is 'downed' 12 times but only loses 2 clones for the team because he uses teamwork and waits for revival is doing more to gain victory than a Merc who is 'downed' 7 times and bleeds out every time to protect his KDR. 0.02 ISK Cross Yes the senseless clone loss cheapens so many matches. Often overlooked in 2 minute long ambushes.

Bethhy Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance 1229	Posted - 2014.02.16 16:23:00 - [31] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: Bethhy wrote: -This would fix needle spam pick up's and make them relevant as it could extend your clone termination timer, And would preserve player's raged about "KD/R's" and actually have them asking for a pick up as it would save their suit investment ISK. Also will give an awesome dynamic for players to finish off "Downed" mercenaries to make sure they are truly dead. I think the player that "Downed" the Mercenary should get credit for a kill. However the "Downed" Mercenary should not get penalized for a death until his clone is officially terminated. Obviously there would have to be safe guard's put in place to prevent farming, Might i suggest a TKO rule where 3 "downs" in a 10 second window and your clone is lost? I'm sure you guy's have a good developer's bag of trick's to use for safeguards better then my suggestion. -As it is slightly connected but would improve Ambush competition and the game mode massively. Mercenaries spawning into Ambush modes uses up one of the clones from the 50,80 totals. And it is the last man standing wins. Often in Ambush one side will reach 0 clones before the other... Then the fight will continue until only one side is alive... Often the loosing side will pull together at the end and clone out the winning side before the match end's only to receive a loss. If every clone counted in Ambush and it was truly last man standing.. The game mode would really shine again. Thanks for your consideration, Bethy I've always liked the aspect of killing a "downed" mercenary. Certain joy comes from it, honestly. I've proposed it in the past but I kinda want to see what your thoughts are on it, Bethy: How's about a small WP reward "confirming" a kill? Say like, 10 WP for making sure the guy is dead? Yeah, there was a post at the beginning of this thread talking about a Warpoint scoring system for "Downed" Mercenaries. I think it's a cool idea and could add to the gameplay, but at the same time could bring more attention then is wanted to Nanite injectable mercenaries . I Think at least 5 WP is acceptable though.
Bethhy Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance 1263	Posted - 2014.02.20 02:23:00 - [32] - Quote up
Bethhy Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance 1275	Posted - 2014.02.20 22:08:00 - [33] - Quote RedBleach LeSanglant wrote: Cosgar wrote: I support these products and/or services. Yep, I too feel the same about our clone death situations. As it has been suggested a simple additional stat and a refocus of the KDR actually being the Kills/True Clone Death as opposed to the secondary stat of Kills/downs. A small change that would have far reaching effects on the entire game. I'm definitely a fan of More Mercenary statistics.. Even if Assists was a measured and displayed Mercenary Statistic.. Support roles would get a lot more credit and where its due aswell.
Bethhy Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance 1422	Posted - 2014.03.21 03:03:00 - [34] - Quote Maybe for 1.9 CCP?
Bethhy Ancient Exiles. Dirt Nap Squad. 1427	Posted - 2014.03.23 13:34:00 - [35] - Quote
Bethhy Ancient Exiles. Dirt Nap Squad. 1472	Posted - 2014.03.26 20:51:00 - [36] - Quote 1.9 CCP ! Get-er-done.
Bethhy Ancient Exiles. Dirt Nap Squad. 1521	Posted - 2014.03.27 19:40:00 - [37] - Quote Blue tag to atleast say your thinking about it CCP?
Bethhy Ancient Exiles. Dirt Nap Squad. 1854	Posted - 2014.04.28 20:24:00 - [38] - Quote 1.9!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Comon!
Bethhy Ancient Exiles. General Tso's Alliance 2177	Posted - 2014.07.11 20:15:00 - [39] - Quote sadface.. Maybe Legion? hahaha.