DUST Search - Let's Discuss Webifiers!

Ranger SnakeBlood wrote:

Baal Omniscient wrote:

Ranger SnakeBlood wrote:

Sounds good but a little situation like very situational, what if it has a 50 to 60% speed reduction even on DS i dont think this would make em drop out of the air as the trusters would still be effective but the maneuvering trusters would be running at half capacity ruffely.

This brings us on to another question a piece of gear this specialized taking up a light slot is a bit harsh but if it works on infantry as-well then it has a place on the battlefeild perhaps if it has a different DPS reading for infantry. Imagin the squad implications of a weapon like that it could make some very interesting load outs for squads and give AV squads more help vrs infantry hunting them using the webber to slow them down so they are either a nice easy target for sidearms or to get away from. If its a fairly visbible amination then it essentially lights up a target to focus fire on also this also has the negative effect of having a shoot me sign over ones head if the amination leads back to you, the thing could not really be over used as it cant realy kill anyone on its own so i cant see it being overly OP (i know it sounds OP but the more i think of it the less it seems).

All in all you have a good idea and glad to see you didnt just say lets make it equipment as if so its another advantage Assault logi

Actually I was thinking it could have a very low fitting cost, making it a perfect fit for sidearm suits. Scouts and Matari assaults (both notorious sidearm classes), having low PG & CPU, would fit this weapon perfectly I think. They have more mobility, allowing them to out strafe a lot of the incoming fire from people targeting them as well as being better able to keep up with speedy vehicles and knock off their active modules so the rest of the AV can show up and lay in on the vehicle. The low fitting costs would allow them to better run damage mods or equip better sidearms, which would help their survivability since this would take up their light weapon slot, and this would give scouts and Minmatar suits a useful role on the field other than "that fast little nut-job in a squishy suit".

As for AI, I considered it, but that's kinda up in the air. I'd rather see this in action as pure AV before we go so far as to give it AI capabilities. Depending on it's effectiveness and fittings costs, it may be fine as-is since you have room for better sidearm fits with it.

The grenade webifiers would also lend themselves to Logi classes as they could spam them much easier due to their access to multiple equipment slots. I would not recommend webifiers be either equipment OR grenades.

And to the point of slowing vehicles down, though it is kinda the popular perception of webifiers, I think that tankers and vehicle pilots of all kinds would feel that this is a lot more fair to them since either killing the offender or escaping them allows them to get away. Webifiers, if allowed to immobilize movement, would likely become OP quickly, even if ALL they did was prevent vehicles from moving.

It wouldnt prevent them from moving as such in eve webbers slow you down they dont stop you if i remeber correct its 60% at T2 the only time your imobilised is a few webbers are on you not only that but webbers tend to have fairly close range at 10km (Umm yeah that fairly far but trust me in eve thats close lol) so perhaps if it had a 40 to 50m range thats fairly close especially if we need to get a DS, Its also worth noteing that if we went with the slow down method thats all it would do apart from perhaps radiation damage to stop em from regening, the natural counter from this is basicly running away at the fastest speed you can, to cut its modules as well as slow it down would basicly make it the end game for any vehicle in its path, so i guess what we have here is 2 possible versions on which slows and one which jams modules.

Another thing as you have versions for the module jammer version ill think of some version for the slowing version.
Basic: Creates a somewhat stream of statis for 50m once incontact with something it creates a 5 to 10m blob that slows down all inside friend or foe by 40 to 50% some radiation damage (even vrs equipment? good anti spam i guess)
Breach: 15 to 20m range in front of you once it hits something it creates a statis blob 10 to 20m in size (a bit extreme perhaps just examples it would require testing to get right sizes) 30 to 40% slow down low radiation damage
Tactical 80 to 100m almost pinpoint stream designed for fighting Aircraft slows by 60% at proto Only thing is i can see this one being very effective as AI in combo with a AR squad so maybe this one is only AV lock on required? Relatively high radiation damage.

Id also like to make it clear that id like to see it being possible for LAV and dropship pilots that are good being able to escape the grip of these things if they have enough speed up if they are caugh sitting still while caputed tho the effect on acceleration will get em.

Most numbers are examples thanks for the tread it been a little to long since i had a optimistic brain storm about what could be a good addition to the game i guess one forgets we are still in beta.

Ulthane: Now get off of my property, 'fore more pigeons come looking an' crap on me yard!


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Baal Omniscient L.O.T.I.S. Public Disorder. 841	Posted - 2013.12.17 00:59:00 - [1] - Quote We'll get to webifiers in JUST a moment, let me preface with this: First, I feel that the many people wanting webifier grenades aren't thinking this through properly. I also don't think they have run into some of our professional DS pilots yet.... Anyway.... As an AV player I have more trouble with dropships than tanks. In fact, most of the AV players I have run with say the exact same thing (been running several full AV squads since this BS started, "keep an eye on that squad finder AV players! "). Of course a spam of high-grade tanks if insanely irritating, but so is an assault DS flying overhead with missiles that can OHK you and requires 3+ people to take down without proto forge guns. I also feel that the problem isn't speed or hardners on their own, it's hardner stacking. Right now forge guns are the only way to have a chance with dropships (a slight chance) unless the dropship pilot is stupid enough to stick around when they are getting pounded by AV, if they are a noob pilot who either can't fly or can't fit a ship, or if the pilot gets unlucky and gets knocked into a wall or building, and webifier grenades wont change that. Removing hardner stacking will place more emphasis on the "periods of oppertunity" philosohpy that CCP has said was their intended goal for vehicle v infantry combat. Since webifier grenades will have no effect on dropships, this appears to be the right course of action *unless* they make the webifier into a weapon of some sort instead of a grenade that has at least a pretty decent range (thinking around 60-80m) with a beam that has to stay on the vehicle in order for modules to stay down (think rep tool beam, but without lock-on). However that means that instead of causing a stasis effect, it would just have to disable all active modules on a vehicle. With the stasis take on webifiers, dropships would just drop to the ground like bricks, which would be unfair for DS pilots. Obviously, as I said at the start, I would prefer the weapon to the grenade. Let's get to it. If you make webifier a weapon as I described it, then AV players will have to choose between either shooting at vehicles, or weakening the vehicle for someone else. This means that they would absolutely HAVE to use teamwork to take down vehicles using a webifier, there would be no players soloing tanks with a swarm launcher and webifier grenades. Also I would think the time for modules to drop would be based on how long you can keep the beam on the vehicle, and make it a sort of beam that you have to keep on the target to (have to keep firing in order to keep up the effect). Maybe give higher tiered webifiers a lingering effect where the module drop-off lasts a few seconds longer per tier after the beam is broken. Lastly, it should have an overheat and do a small amount of damage per second (25-50 DPS) to help combat passive reps Example: (not suggesting these values, just giving some numbers to give you an idea of what I mean) Basic weapon stats:: Seconds that effect lasts after beam breaks; Basic - 3 Seconds Advanced - 4 Seconds Prototype - 5 Seconds Ammo; Clip Size - 100 RPM - 250 Heat Build-up - (overheats at half a clip, with skills overheats at 7/10 of a clip) Overheat Cooldown- 15 seconds (reduced through Operations skill) DPS - 25 Basic, 50 Advanced, 75 Prototype (negligible damage on a vehicle, but would do a bit to help AV teammates combat the passive repair cycle) Skills; Operations - 5% reduction to heat buildup and overheat duration per level Proficiency - 3% increase to damage output per level (86.4 DPS at max level, enough to take a significant chunk out of passive repair cycle off of armor tanks and enough to make a shield tank want to get gone in a hurry) Aftershock - 3% increase to time that effect lasts after beam disconnects Ammo Capacity - 5% increase to ammo carried per level Rapid Reload - 5% increase to reload speed per level Fitting Optimization - 5% reduction to PG costs per level Variants; Variant 1 (Breach) - Effects last longer after beam is broken but have a shorter range Variant 2 (Assault) - Beam has a longer range but a almost immediately cut off after beam is broken Side Notes: All active vehicle modules are automatically set to 3/4 cooled down when webifier effects wear off. As an AV player, I feel this Webifier would be fair and balanced for both vehicles and infantry. Pro's for vehicles: Overheats, long cooldown, requires LoS, limited range, requires light weapon slot (can't run with an AV weapon equipped like you could if they were grenades), requires teamwork. Pro's for AV: Skill weapon, fair range, constant effect (with aim and LoS), help your squad combat modules & passive reps on vehicles, can run a sidearm & grenades of any type, can still use RE's if able to get close enough, and most of all - USE TEAMWORK TO BEAT VEHICLES! (I know that kinda repeats the second one, but it's important enough to count as 2). Now, webifiers aren't REQUIRED for most vehicles right now. However, I feel that this setup would let them be effective support AV while preventing webifiers from being able to easily solo AV. With 2 webifiers, you might be able to scare off a tank. With 3, you might even be able to kill a stupid one. But you WON'T be able to just disable a ground vehicle and kill it solo with another AV weapon. Ulthane: Now get off of my property, 'fore more pigeons come looking an' crap on me yard! Overlord's: Ulath Bosse Zero
Baal Omniscient L.O.T.I.S. Public Disorder. 841	Posted - 2013.12.17 02:09:00 - [2] - Quote Ranger SnakeBlood wrote: Sounds good but a little situation like very situational, what if it has a 50 to 60% speed reduction even on DS i dont think this would make em drop out of the air as the trusters would still be effective but the maneuvering trusters would be running at half capacity ruffely. This brings us on to another question a piece of gear this specialized taking up a light slot is a bit harsh but if it works on infantry as-well then it has a place on the battlefeild perhaps if it has a different DPS reading for infantry. Imagin the squad implications of a weapon like that it could make some very interesting load outs for squads and give AV squads more help vrs infantry hunting them using the webber to slow them down so they are either a nice easy target for sidearms or to get away from. If its a fairly visbible amination then it essentially lights up a target to focus fire on also this also has the negative effect of having a shoot me sign over ones head if the amination leads back to you, the thing could not really be over used as it cant realy kill anyone on its own so i cant see it being overly OP (i know it sounds OP but the more i think of it the less it seems). All in all you have a good idea and glad to see you didnt just say lets make it equipment as if so its another advantage Assault logi Actually I was thinking it could have a very low fitting cost, making it a perfect fit for sidearm suits. Scouts and Matari assaults (both notorious sidearm classes), having low PG & CPU, would fit this weapon perfectly I think. They have more mobility, allowing them to out strafe a lot of the incoming fire from people targeting them as well as being better able to keep up with speedy vehicles and knock off their active modules so the rest of the AV can show up and lay in on the vehicle. The low fitting costs would allow them to better run damage mods or equip better sidearms, which would help their survivability since this would take up their light weapon slot, and this would give scouts and Minmatar suits a useful role on the field other than "that fast little nut-job in a squishy suit". As for AI, I considered it, but that's kinda up in the air. I'd rather see this in action as pure AV before we go so far as to give it AI capabilities. Depending on it's effectiveness and fittings costs, it may be fine as-is since you have room for better sidearm fits with it. The grenade webifiers would also lend themselves to Logi classes as they could spam them much easier due to their access to multiple equipment slots. I would not recommend webifiers be either equipment OR grenades. And to the point of slowing vehicles down, though it is kinda the popular perception of webifiers, I think that tankers and vehicle pilots of all kinds would feel that this is a lot more fair to them since either killing the offender or escaping them allows them to get away. Webifiers, if allowed to immobilize movement, would likely become OP quickly, even if ALL they did was prevent vehicles from moving. Ulthane: Now get off of my property, 'fore more pigeons come looking an' crap on me yard! Overlord's: Ulath Bosse Zero
Baal Omniscient L.O.T.I.S. Public Disorder. 843	Posted - 2013.12.17 11:07:00 - [3] - Quote Ranger SnakeBlood wrote: Baal Omniscient wrote: Ranger SnakeBlood wrote: Sounds good but a little situation like very situational, what if it has a 50 to 60% speed reduction even on DS i dont think this would make em drop out of the air as the trusters would still be effective but the maneuvering trusters would be running at half capacity ruffely. This brings us on to another question a piece of gear this specialized taking up a light slot is a bit harsh but if it works on infantry as-well then it has a place on the battlefeild perhaps if it has a different DPS reading for infantry. Imagin the squad implications of a weapon like that it could make some very interesting load outs for squads and give AV squads more help vrs infantry hunting them using the webber to slow them down so they are either a nice easy target for sidearms or to get away from. If its a fairly visbible amination then it essentially lights up a target to focus fire on also this also has the negative effect of having a shoot me sign over ones head if the amination leads back to you, the thing could not really be over used as it cant realy kill anyone on its own so i cant see it being overly OP (i know it sounds OP but the more i think of it the less it seems). All in all you have a good idea and glad to see you didnt just say lets make it equipment as if so its another advantage Assault logi Actually I was thinking it could have a very low fitting cost, making it a perfect fit for sidearm suits. Scouts and Matari assaults (both notorious sidearm classes), having low PG & CPU, would fit this weapon perfectly I think. They have more mobility, allowing them to out strafe a lot of the incoming fire from people targeting them as well as being better able to keep up with speedy vehicles and knock off their active modules so the rest of the AV can show up and lay in on the vehicle. The low fitting costs would allow them to better run damage mods or equip better sidearms, which would help their survivability since this would take up their light weapon slot, and this would give scouts and Minmatar suits a useful role on the field other than "that fast little nut-job in a squishy suit". As for AI, I considered it, but that's kinda up in the air. I'd rather see this in action as pure AV before we go so far as to give it AI capabilities. Depending on it's effectiveness and fittings costs, it may be fine as-is since you have room for better sidearm fits with it. The grenade webifiers would also lend themselves to Logi classes as they could spam them much easier due to their access to multiple equipment slots. I would not recommend webifiers be either equipment OR grenades. And to the point of slowing vehicles down, though it is kinda the popular perception of webifiers, I think that tankers and vehicle pilots of all kinds would feel that this is a lot more fair to them since either killing the offender or escaping them allows them to get away. Webifiers, if allowed to immobilize movement, would likely become OP quickly, even if ALL they did was prevent vehicles from moving. It wouldnt prevent them from moving as such in eve webbers slow you down they dont stop you if i remeber correct its 60% at T2 the only time your imobilised is a few webbers are on you not only that but webbers tend to have fairly close range at 10km (Umm yeah that fairly far but trust me in eve thats close lol) so perhaps if it had a 40 to 50m range thats fairly close especially if we need to get a DS, Its also worth noteing that if we went with the slow down method thats all it would do apart from perhaps radiation damage to stop em from regening, the natural counter from this is basicly running away at the fastest speed you can, to cut its modules as well as slow it down would basicly make it the end game for any vehicle in its path, so i guess what we have here is 2 possible versions on which slows and one which jams modules. Another thing as you have versions for the module jammer version ill think of some version for the slowing version. Basic: Creates a somewhat stream of statis for 50m once incontact with something it creates a 5 to 10m blob that slows down all inside friend or foe by 40 to 50% some radiation damage (even vrs equipment? good anti spam i guess) Breach: 15 to 20m range in front of you once it hits something it creates a statis blob 10 to 20m in size (a bit extreme perhaps just examples it would require testing to get right sizes) 30 to 40% slow down low radiation damage Tactical 80 to 100m almost pinpoint stream designed for fighting Aircraft slows by 60% at proto Only thing is i can see this one being very effective as AI in combo with a AR squad so maybe this one is only AV lock on required? Relatively high radiation damage. Id also like to make it clear that id like to see it being possible for LAV and dropship pilots that are good being able to escape the grip of these things if they have enough speed up if they are caugh sitting still while caputed tho the effect on acceleration will get em. Most numbers are examples thanks for the tread it been a little to long since i had a optimistic brain storm about what could be a good addition to the game i guess one forgets we are still in beta. Your more than welcome, I drained my imagination's data stores attempting to find a way to make the webifier good for AV but not OP, and at the same time keep it from being the next crutch for a guy wanting to solo everything. Brain's drained, going to sleep lol Ulthane: Now get off of my property, 'fore more pigeons come looking an' crap on me yard! Overlord's: Ulath Bosse Zero
Baal Omniscient L.O.T.I.S. Public Disorder. 843	Posted - 2013.12.17 13:39:00 - [4] - Quote The Robot Devil wrote: Standard Web Same range and stats as a standard flux but creates a 5m bubble with a 10% drop in speed for 7s where ever it lands. Sleek Web Same range and stats as a sleek but creates a 3m bubble with a 10% drop in speed for 5s where ever it lands. Packed Web Same range and stats as a packed but creates a 7m bubble with a 10% drop in speed for 7s where ever it lands. Drop Web Works like a nanohive but has a 5 second deploy time and a 12m bubble dropping speed by 25%, the web would only last for one minute 30 seconds. Remote Web Works like a RE with the bubble being activated whenever the merc wants. The bubble would not have a deploy timer. The 10m bubble would have a speed drop of 25% and only last for 25s. Works on friend or foe and skills would change stats like deploy time, speed drop, lifespan and bubble area. Not saying that wouldn't be good for tanks, but how would that help with dropships? We already have 3 AV options that are virtually useless against them, we don't need a 4th. Ulthane: Now get off of my property, 'fore more pigeons come looking an' crap on me yard! Overlord's: Ulath Bosse Zero
Baal Omniscient L.O.T.I.S. Public Disorder. 844	Posted - 2013.12.18 20:11:00 - [5] - Quote Spectral Clone wrote: Realistically speaking: Game is scrapped before this is implementedGäó. Realistically speaking, pessimism accomplishes nothing. Ulthane: Now get off of my property, 'fore more pigeons come looking an' crap on me yard! Overlord's: Ulath Bosse Zero