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abarkrishna wrote:

This is the most intelligent thing I have heard come from anyone in your corp.
That being said. Perhaps you could make your corp mates understand why sending hate mail is a bad thing. That is bad sportsmanship conduct.

Who would want to intentionally make a game lag? Everyone prefers a real fight. I like getting 30 kills a match. In a lag fest there are very few kills for anyone. To imply otherwise is quite ignorant.

Like you said the real issue is lag. So why not address that in a thread specifically instead of drawing negative attention by publicly stating several corps are cheating. That alone is where this thread went. The way you word things is extremely important as is apparent in this thread.

Think about it. What if CCP fixed what is causing lag. Would this "tactic" of your still exist? This game has plenty of lag spikes without any cause. For example in the first 15 seconds of a match. There is a tremendous lag spike and dip in frame rate.

Obviously it is a significant issue as it happens in more than just one map.


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Icarus DelSol BIG BAD W0LVES 6	Posted - 2013.12.22 17:44:00 - [1] - Quote Kane Fyea wrote: Darken-Sol wrote: Not sure don't use em. I have never accused anyone of using them. The process of doing it is a mystery to me. I put REs on a tank. Immediately he teleports everyone keeps firing and running the way they were facing. Grenades fly but the counter don't go down. Can't place equipment. What could cause this? Possibly just the user having a bad connection to the servers. It could also be a glitch but I think it's more of connection issues (Whether it be CCPs own servers or the persons own internet connection) Also the equipment spam could be the problem too. Get more details of what was happening during the battle and send a ticket to CCP. They usually reply within 24 hours. Also make a thread in the technical support/bugs section. It's not a bad connection, the whole squad lags out. There are definite spikes, and they tend to last only as long as you're engaging certain players in my experience.
Icarus DelSol BIG BAD W0LVES 6	Posted - 2013.12.23 02:41:00 - [2] - Quote Alright Talos, here's a stab at an actual argument for you: Healing hives can conceivably be useful next to supply depots (although in the Research Facility I can think of better spots for them), but other hives are not that useful (yes the addition of a hive will increase the rate at which you resupply, but I believe one of the Subdreddit guys said they were using basic gear, so it wasn't really helping very much). Uplinks are of course useful, but one or two, not 10. I think the problem is two-fold - some people spam equipment for the purpose of lagging the game out, and some do it for other reasons. On Dom, if you hold the objective, it is in your interest to lag the game because it is easier to defend the objective than take it under these conditions. This is exploitive because it is not an intended feature of the game. CCP provides tools to metagame, but using lag to your advantage is not a tool they intended to be used. I have no true proof of their intent, but it seems logical to me that they want their game to do well, and people do not continue playing games where exploits are the key to victory. The second possibility is the "selfish/unobservant blueberry". The scenario for this would be a scout with links spawns and runs to the supply depot to drop a link. A logi does the same, but arrives after the scout. Frustrated, he drops his links anyway because he wants those points and another link can't hurt. Alternately, he doesn't see the other link on his map because he's in a rush. Maybe a third blueberry spawns and decided he wants points too, so he drops a link on top of an existing link, hoping that people will spawn on it by accident. This was a common tactic in the MCC for a while: drop a link in the MCC and hope people spawn on it instead of on the normal spawn to farm points. Anyway, the end result is the same, namely that there are many pieces of equipment in a confined area which contribute to severe lag. This isn't intended, and is therefore not exploitive. Whatever the intent, the Wolves won't play the Research Lab until something changes (meta or otherwise). It's not because we can't win, it's not because we don't want to adapt (every update forces all of us to adapt) and it's not out of a sense of honor. It's because it's really boring to play a lagged out game. We have noticed that the lag is worse with several large PC corps in battle. This has led us to assume that it's an intended tactic. Could be wrong of course, and none of this implies Subdreddit in particular (in fact they were never on my personal list of offenders). It could very well be you guys weren't exploiting in that game, but the annoyance of the lag spikes led to the in-game mail and the forum post none-the-less. -As to the thread- I've always had good battles with Subdreddit, and I usually have good interactions with folks on /r/Dust514. Let's just have a battle like 138 suggested. Baal Roo, you must know we're not going to bankroll the whole battle. If we want to fight each other there must be a more equitable way to split the costs. How about this: we make two squads, 6 of yours and 6 of ours, and que-sync some pubs. Sometimes we'll be on the same team, and sometimes we'll be on opposite sides. Let's see who tops the leaderboards when we're all blue, and let's see who wins when we're red. We shouldn't be fighting like this, we all know the real enemy is Nyan San anyway
Icarus DelSol BIG BAD W0LVES 6	Posted - 2013.12.23 03:40:00 - [3] - Quote KenKaniff69 wrote: Icarus DelSol wrote: We shouldn't be fighting like this, we all know the real enemy is Nyan San anyway Why not just wake up and take a district? Even the Wolves could take a district from my experience. When you take a district from them, use your vast corporation wallet to convert the district to a research facility. "Why on earth would the honorable Wolves do that?" Well if you refuse to play on the map because cheap corps like Subdreddit lag you out, why not use the same tactics against your enemy? From what it sounds like, they schooled you on the most brutal Dom map in the game and your only excuse was "they used lag to beat us". Try the same tactic in PC on the research facility. What could go wrong? Because I don't have fun playing with or against that tactic. I just think lag sucks, whether it's effective or not. It's a major reason we're not particularly interested in PC at the moment.
Icarus DelSol BIG BAD W0LVES 9	Posted - 2013.12.23 05:17:00 - [4] - Quote Baal Roo wrote: As far as qsyncing, why would any of our people want to be subjected to playing with the sort of people who send hate mail every match and cry on the forums about nonsense like this? So, we're talking about wasting corp funds, or wasting our guy's time. Neither of which I'm particularly motivated to get behind. I dunno, why don't you ask your corpmate who suggested the matchup instead of trolling me? I didn't call you guys out, I suggested playing the game together in an effort to show you that we don't all send hate mail and to show our guys that you don't all spam equipment. We don't police our members' messaging. If they want to send hate mail or gg, they are free to do so. We're a casual corp and have neither the time nor the desire to manage our members like that.
Icarus DelSol BIG BAD W0LVES 9	Posted - 2013.12.23 06:48:00 - [5] - Quote abarkrishna wrote: This is the most intelligent thing I have heard come from anyone in your corp. That being said. Perhaps you could make your corp mates understand why sending hate mail is a bad thing. That is bad sportsmanship conduct. Who would want to intentionally make a game lag? Everyone prefers a real fight. I like getting 30 kills a match. In a lag fest there are very few kills for anyone. To imply otherwise is quite ignorant. Like you said the real issue is lag. So why not address that in a thread specifically instead of drawing negative attention by publicly stating several corps are cheating. That alone is where this thread went. The way you word things is extremely important as is apparent in this thread. Think about it. What if CCP fixed what is causing lag. Would this "tactic" of your still exist? This game has plenty of lag spikes without any cause. For example in the first 15 seconds of a match. There is a tremendous lag spike and dip in frame rate. Obviously it is a significant issue as it happens in more than just one map. I'm inclined to agree that it's unsportsmanlike, however we don't believe in censoring our members. If they want to send hate, they are free to do so, and if they want to send gg, they are also free to do so. If we were a serious corp I would be more interested in controlling our interaction with outside players and corps, but even then more for long term strategy than a sense of moral decency. I don't like sending hate mail much myself (although I've sent the odd snarky remark here and there), but my corpmates are adults and they can manage their reputations on their own. You like getting 30 kills in a match and lag hampers that, but many players like to win at any cost. Lag is an effective tool for these players. They can, for instance, throw expensive equipment at an opponent long enough to take an objective, and then switch to cheap suits and lag the game out to prevent the other side from taking it back. Saves isk and provides the win. I don't think it's ignorant to accuse players of exploiting equipment spam lag; it's obvious it's happening in some matches and some of the commenters in this thread have admitted doing it. As you say, the lag spikes are a significant issue, and despite the fact that traditional lag switches apparently don't work in this game, I can't help but feel some players have figured out how to purposely drop frame rates. For example, one night last week I played two matches against these two tanks (can't remember their names or corps, but I think they were from somewhere notable). The game was mostly lag-free, but every time we started to take on one of the tanks the frames suddenly dropped out and they scooted out of weapon range. Same two guys in two different matches, same pattern. Very well could have been related to engaging the tanks but in no way caused by the tankers themselves, but it was definitely correlated. I don't know enough about networks and servers to hazard any guesses, but it wouldn't surprise me if someone figured how to make a new kind of lag switch. Maybe none of it is intentional, but it sure appears to be sometimes. Anyway, we have a new video guy, so maybe he can capture actual footage and submit a ticket, but for now we're just stuck with anecdotes. I'd like to see it fixed, but this thread wasn't put into the bug section because it wasn't originally calling for a fix. And as for bad attention, it has been said that there is no such thing I suspect some will now be gunning for Darken, but he's a ranked player and can hold his own, and the rest of use aren't too shabby either. Come at me bro, do you even lift?!?