DUST Search - A compromise??

knight of 6 wrote:

BrownEye1129 wrote:

I want to hear both sides "debate". Not argue or fight, and not any this is OP Nerf this bs. Let's just have an open discussion.

I like the swarm range nerf. That should be kept. IMO Swarms need a slight damage buff, not much but put a little damage back in. Enough so a tank feels one Swarmer, gets worried about 2, and 3=Pop goes the tank. One proto swarm should be able to scare a tank into playing cautious. 2 should push a tank back and destroy weak/bad tankers.

As far as AV Nades go, make the current STD into ADV, ADV into Proto. IMO they need to put AV Nades back to where they were. If a tank is going to sit around and not have any infantry support "TEAMWORK" then they deserve to get wasted by AV nades. I'm all for having to use teamwork to deal with a tank. But it should work both ways. A tank should have to use teamwork to survive. Tanks can have 3 seats. IMO one should be on AV Nade duty. They see a red sneaking close to the tank, they jump out and deal with it.

As for the price of tanks leave it. Instead increase the price of mods. Tanks would still be cheap but start to get expensive the better fitted they are.

I know CCP is trying to balance for the future. I might be a bit biased bc I don't run tanks. This is just from my experience. I do know most swarms I watch streaking through the air are above STD lvl. What do you people think would these ideas help balance for the now and be easily changed for the future? Or am I just talking out my ass QQ.

this is all very reasonable, as for the 3 seats most of us only have one. our PG/CPU is incredibly tight and we simply don't have room for extra guns. the tanks current speed however can be used to deal with them in most cases, if the driver is paying attention.

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BrownEye1129 Death In Xcess Corporation 141	Posted - 2013.12.16 22:28:00 - [1] - Quote I want to hear both sides "debate". Not argue or fight, and not any this is OP Nerf this bs. Let's just have an open discussion. I like the swarm range nerf. That should be kept. IMO Swarms need a slight damage buff, not much but put a little damage back in. Enough so a tank feels one Swarmer, gets worried about 2, and 3=Pop goes the tank. One proto swarm should be able to scare a tank into playing cautious. 2 should push a tank back and destroy weak/bad tankers. As far as AV Nades go, make the current STD into ADV, ADV into Proto. IMO they need to put AV Nades back to where they were. If a tank is going to sit around and not have any infantry support "TEAMWORK" then they deserve to get wasted by AV nades. I'm all for having to use teamwork to deal with a tank. But it should work both ways. A tank should have to use teamwork to survive. Tanks can have 3 seats. IMO one should be on AV Nade duty. They see a red sneaking close to the tank, they jump out and deal with it. As for the price of tanks leave it. Instead increase the price of mods. Tanks would still be cheap but start to get expensive the better fitted they are. I know CCP is trying to balance for the future. I might be a bit biased bc I don't run tanks. This is just from my experience. I do know most swarms I watch streaking through the air are above STD lvl. What do you people think would these ideas help balance for the now and be easily changed for the future? Or am I just talking out my ass QQ.
Everything Dies Chatelain Rapid Response Gallente Federation 374	Posted - 2013.12.16 22:35:00 - [2] - Quote I view it in the opposite: Keep the reduced damage on the swarms, but extend their range back to at least 300 meters. Then, adjust either the effectiveness of hardeners (say, 20% for militia/standard, 30% for advanced and 40% for proto) or their duration (10/17/25 seconds) while keeping the militia/standard builds relatively cheap. Agree with the modules being the ultimate determiner of how expensive a tank can/should be. And of course, tank speed will have to be fixed before anything else! Life is killing me.
knight of 6 SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 846	Posted - 2013.12.16 22:43:00 - [3] - Quote BrownEye1129 wrote: I want to hear both sides "debate". Not argue or fight, and not any this is OP Nerf this bs. Let's just have an open discussion. I like the swarm range nerf. That should be kept. IMO Swarms need a slight damage buff, not much but put a little damage back in. Enough so a tank feels one Swarmer, gets worried about 2, and 3=Pop goes the tank. One proto swarm should be able to scare a tank into playing cautious. 2 should push a tank back and destroy weak/bad tankers. As far as AV Nades go, make the current STD into ADV, ADV into Proto. IMO they need to put AV Nades back to where they were. If a tank is going to sit around and not have any infantry support "TEAMWORK" then they deserve to get wasted by AV nades. I'm all for having to use teamwork to deal with a tank. But it should work both ways. A tank should have to use teamwork to survive. Tanks can have 3 seats. IMO one should be on AV Nade duty. They see a red sneaking close to the tank, they jump out and deal with it. As for the price of tanks leave it. Instead increase the price of mods. Tanks would still be cheap but start to get expensive the better fitted they are. I know CCP is trying to balance for the future. I might be a bit biased bc I don't run tanks. This is just from my experience. I do know most swarms I watch streaking through the air are above STD lvl. What do you people think would these ideas help balance for the now and be easily changed for the future? Or am I just talking out my ass QQ. this is all very reasonable, as for the 3 seats most of us only have one. our PG/CPU is incredibly tight and we simply don't have room for extra guns. the tanks current speed however can be used to deal with them in most cases, if the driver is paying attention. "God favors the side with the best artillery" ~ Napoleon Ko6, scout, tanker. CLOSED BETA VET
Quil Evrything Triple Terrors 550	Posted - 2013.12.16 22:50:00 - [4] - Quote Fix the meaningless thread title, if you want more meaningful replies
BrownEye1129 Death In Xcess Corporation 141	Posted - 2013.12.17 01:26:00 - [5] - Quote Quil Evrything wrote: Fix the meaningless thread title, if you want more meaningful replies To what exactly? "The fix to tanks/AV". Tanks/AV problem solved. TBH I've seen so many threads along those lines I skip 'em. Now "A Compromise??" That makes me curious. A thread I'll check out to see what it's all about.
BrownEye1129 Death In Xcess Corporation 141	Posted - 2013.12.17 01:39:00 - [6] - Quote knight of 6 wrote: BrownEye1129 wrote: I want to hear both sides "debate". Not argue or fight, and not any this is OP Nerf this bs. Let's just have an open discussion. I like the swarm range nerf. That should be kept. IMO Swarms need a slight damage buff, not much but put a little damage back in. Enough so a tank feels one Swarmer, gets worried about 2, and 3=Pop goes the tank. One proto swarm should be able to scare a tank into playing cautious. 2 should push a tank back and destroy weak/bad tankers. As far as AV Nades go, make the current STD into ADV, ADV into Proto. IMO they need to put AV Nades back to where they were. If a tank is going to sit around and not have any infantry support "TEAMWORK" then they deserve to get wasted by AV nades. I'm all for having to use teamwork to deal with a tank. But it should work both ways. A tank should have to use teamwork to survive. Tanks can have 3 seats. IMO one should be on AV Nade duty. They see a red sneaking close to the tank, they jump out and deal with it. As for the price of tanks leave it. Instead increase the price of mods. Tanks would still be cheap but start to get expensive the better fitted they are. I know CCP is trying to balance for the future. I might be a bit biased bc I don't run tanks. This is just from my experience. I do know most swarms I watch streaking through the air are above STD lvl. What do you people think would these ideas help balance for the now and be easily changed for the future? Or am I just talking out my ass QQ. this is all very reasonable, as for the 3 seats most of us only have one. our PG/CPU is incredibly tight and we simply don't have room for extra guns. the tanks current speed however can be used to deal with them in most cases, if the driver is paying attention. Is that with SP invested into turrets?
Ranger SnakeBlood OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 266	Posted - 2013.12.17 02:11:00 - [7] - Quote OK this is the only issue with tanks there is not problem with the tank as a whole apart from one little thing it can be used effectively by one guy but cant be killed by one guy this is simply not balanced that not up for debate or arguing how to fix the issue however is. There is indeed something wrong when due to a their role a player is worth 2 players. One side people want to nerf tanks so they can be killed by one guy all well and good but that defeats the point of tanks this is a possible solution and while it would indeed balance the game it also neuters the tank as a role. Another option that we have is reclassing large turrets as AV weapons this would meen the blaster and missiles to a lesser extent needs a bit of rethinking best way to do this in my opinion is the addition of spread and lowering ROF and increasing damage by same amount this would make them less effecitve vrs infantry in thoery it also turns them into more of a support weapon as it cant just slaugther infantry but can still cover advancing infantry and keep hostiles in cover, small turrets could also be reworked to be all anti infantry this would mean the rail gun needs to behave more like the rail rifle, this solution is a nice fix as the tanks are now more relent on their gunners to kill infantry this now means that a tank is not as effective without its gunners which brings the 2 to 3 AV guys to kill more into balence, while its a nice fix i can see one issue as the basic tank is simply a AV platform with one pilot it could be used as a simple one man anti tank tank weapon which again would be a little out of balence. The other solution is my favorite considering it takes teamwork to kill a tank why does it not take teamwork to run a tank the thing is we need to figure out how many people it should take to kill a tank therefore figuring out how powerful it is ment to be then split up the tank into sections if it is considered a 2 man job then the best way to do it is driver and gunner while driver has access to the front gun and the gunner has access to the main turret this actually makes the tank more powerful as if one guy focuses on driving and one focuses on gunning they will be more effective, if 3 people is done then i think the top turret could be the commander seat who would be the only person in the vehicle with access to the third person camera and the defences like hardeners bascily think he is the eyes and brain also having a built in active scanner or some sort of target painter would help his role. This is by far the best balence as it while taking the turret reworking it would now take a fully crewed tank to kill a fully crewed tank while taking a AV team to kill them.
Leadfoot10 Molon Labe. Public Disorder. 130	Posted - 2013.12.17 02:21:00 - [8] - Quote I'm kind of liking more tanks on the battlefield. Starting to see squads and coordination that never used to happen in previous builds. I play infantry in this game, so I can't really comment on the topic directly. But I'm happy to see them being run in pubs with great frequency. That said, tanks seem to be a bit OP versus AV right now, and I suspect it will be balanced in future updates. In the meantime, I say enjoy it. Have fun....Leadfoot
Summ Dude Militaires-Sans-Frontieres 83	Posted - 2013.12.17 02:50:00 - [9] - Quote I could be wrong, but it feels to me like everyone is looking at the Tank/AV balance with only swarm launchers and AV grenades in mind. Well as a forge gunner, I'll just say it, tanks are a little too hard to kill right now. Yes, I know they were too easy to kill before. No, I don't expect to solo tanks with ease. But I know CCP was going for 'waves of opportunity' with vehicles, and right now it's more like: tank rolls in and starts wrecking infantry, I hit it a few time with FG, tank throws up hardeners becoming effectively untouchable, hardeners go down and tank zips away at light speed, no more than 15 seconds later tank is back at full health and it all starts again. So yea, not very fun. But I guess we'll have to wait and see how tanks look once the speed goes down considerably before really doing anything major to them. Honestly, I kinda think dropships are the ideal standard for vehicles right now. When they roll in with no active modules on, yea, I can still 2 or 3 shot them no problem. But then those mods go up, and damn are they hard to kill. So like, actual waves of opportunity. And it's fun, and engaging, and just so rewarding when you finally take it down. I may have posted this vid somewhere before, but just to be safe: Extra Credits: Counter Play. I think it really applies to this equation.
Sgt Buttscratch 1158	Posted - 2013.12.17 03:01:00 - [10] - Quote Right now the balance is good, other than STD/MLT swarmers are useless.. I don't even think they'd kill an LAV, that isnt BPO. If the intention is to bring ADV and PRO tanks back into the game, then the current swarmer stats will not cut it, current stats requires ADV and PRO AV to kill MLT/STD Vehicles. I don't mind this, for months its been like this, only now tanks ca stand up to it for bursts. In the end current PRO AV stats will have to be given to STD/MLT AV, and ADV and PRO raised accordingly, (If ADV and PRO Vehicles are introuced). Problem is right now, everyone gives up or tries predictable AV attacks at tanks that even the MLT variants can laugh off. The game requires you to adapt, tanks die fast when you hit them just right. Another good note is that most tankers are bull headed and ** tankers, relying on your fear or you being ** at swift AV attacks. I stick my weiner in two buns and and then give it the gas Sour cream from my spleen into Levi jeans

BrownEye1129 Death In Xcess Corporation 142	Posted - 2013.12.17 04:21:00 - [11] - Quote Like Sgt Buttscratch said (great name btw lol) if you do manage to do enough damage to scare a tank off it is right back to full HP within seconds. Someone speced into vehicles will also have their hardeners rdy so the cycle repeats. How many people should it take to destroy a tank? What I posted in the OP is what I feel we should have. 1 AV proto regardless what it is should be enough to make the tanker catious. 2 should make a tank back off immediately (with hardeners it should still be taking decent damage). With the current balance you can have 3+ AV focus on a tank the entire time and if he is smart will be able to get away while stille wrecking foot soldiers. Once a damagedgo tank gets out of swarm/AV nade range the only chance to destory it is FG. That is IF he doesn't hide and he doesn't rep faster than the FG can fire.
Summ Dude Militaires-Sans-Frontieres 84	Posted - 2013.12.17 18:52:00 - [12] - Quote BrownEye1129 wrote: Once a damagedgo tank gets out of swarm/AV nade range the only chance to destory it is FG. That is IF he doesn't hide and he doesn't rep faster than the FG can fire. Which, by the way, they virtually always do. It seems right now pretty much the only tanks I can destroy are driven by less than intelligent tankers.


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