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Jason Pearson 3473	Posted - 2013.12.16 22:10:00 - [1] - Quote You AV idiots, "BUFF THE AV" no, don't ******* buff the AV. Taz ran at my Gunnlogi while my hardener was down and took half my shields down with his proto swarms in a single volley. Your issue isn't the damage, its the hardeners and the fact that when they're down we speed away fast to not get hurt. Know the difference. King of the Forums // Vehicle Specialist for Hire. Buffing or Debuffing Vehicles or AV will never fix anything.
Jason Pearson 3474	Posted - 2013.12.16 22:24:00 - [2] - Quote Logi Bro wrote: I occasionally killed Madrugars with my Gunnlogi in 1.6, but everyone knows that Gunnlogi's were complete **** in HAV vs HAV combat back then. A few kills doesn't a balanced game make. Also, I notice you said he took half your shields, and you didn't say he killed you. Maybe it was because even without a hardener you can move like an LAV and still instantly recharge your shields with a booster and you just ran away out of his range? Erm, so confused about your first paragraph and the relevance it has to this post. One volley of Swarms hit me, it took half my shields. The hardener doesn't affect your speed, it affects your resistances and that's the point I was making, the issue is the speed and the fact once my hardener is down I will leave and you will be left firing at nothing. King of the Forums // Vehicle Specialist for Hire. Buffing or Debuffing Vehicles or AV will never fix anything.
Jason Pearson 3474	Posted - 2013.12.16 22:34:00 - [3] - Quote Everything Dies wrote: Jason Pearson wrote: You AV idiots, "BUFF THE AV" no, don't ***** buff the AV. Taz ran at my Gunnlogi while my hardener was down and took half my shields down with his proto swarms in a single volley. Your issue isn't the damage, its the hardeners and the fact that when they're down we speed away fast to not get hurt. Know the difference. So...let's base the entire balance of AVs/HAVs around a single battle you were in and somehow managed to caught in the open with your hardeners gone flaccid? Right... No, let's base it off of the fact this isn't a single incident and that's what happens when you don't have an active hardener running, tanks die fast. The fact an EXPLOSIVE weapon took out half my shields when my hardener is down is pretty much proof right there that AV weapons are strong enough, I dread to think what happens when it hits a Maddy with no shield buffer. When I haven't got a hardener up and I get hit by three AV grenades, and I ** a brick, start weaving trying to reason with my Gunnlogi that now would be a perfect time to not be in cooldown, trying to persuade said Gunnlogi to go faster because two more AV nades and we're toast. You people are not distinguishing the difference between a Tank with Hardeners on and when they're down, you're also refusing to look at issues such as the fact we can stack multiple hardeners and that means we break the wave of opportunity deal Vehicles are meant to be. I said in my AV v Tank balance thread, that speed needs a slight nerf and we need webifiers to slow down tanks, so AVers can dispatch Tanks relatively easily if they're in a two man squad, one webbing and slowing the tank down and one blowing up him up. Oh and a tip for if the webs do come in, WEB HIM WHEN HIS HARDENERS ARE DOWN. ;) King of the Forums // Vehicle Specialist for Hire. Buffing or Debuffing Vehicles or AV will never fix anything.
Jason Pearson 3475	Posted - 2013.12.16 22:46:00 - [4] - Quote Everything Dies wrote: Jason Pearson wrote: Everything Dies wrote: Jason Pearson wrote: You AV idiots, "BUFF THE AV" no, don't ***** buff the AV. Taz ran at my Gunnlogi while my hardener was down and took half my shields down with his proto swarms in a single volley. Your issue isn't the damage, its the hardeners and the fact that when they're down we speed away fast to not get hurt. Know the difference. So...let's base the entire balance of AVs/HAVs around a single battle you were in and somehow managed to caught in the open with your hardeners gone flaccid? Right... No, let's base it off of the fact this isn't a single incident and that's what happens when you don't have an active hardener running, tanks die fast. The fact an EXPLOSIVE weapon took out half my shields when my hardener is down is pretty much proof right there that AV weapons are strong enough, I dread to think what happens when it hits a Maddy with no shield buffer. When I haven't got a hardener up and I get hit by three AV grenades, and I ** a brick, start weaving trying to reason with my Gunnlogi that now would be a perfect time to not be in cooldown, trying to persuade said Gunnlogi to go faster because two more AV nades and we're toast. You people are not distinguishing the difference between a Tank with Hardeners on and when they're down, you're also refusing to look at issues such as the fact we can stack multiple hardeners and that means we break the wave of opportunity deal Vehicles are meant to be. I said in my AV v Tank balance thread, that speed needs a slight nerf and we need webifiers to slow down tanks, so AVers can dispatch Tanks relatively easily if they're in a two man squad, one webbing and slowing the tank down and one blowing up him up. Oh and a tip for if the webs do come in, WEB HIM WHEN HIS HARDENERS ARE DOWN. ;) The entire discussion is meaningless until tanks can no longer zoom out of any and all danger the moment their hardeners go down. But it's not meaningless, discuss the possibility of webs and then the entire idea of nerfing tanks in their current situation becomes ridiculous because it'll be a hell of a lot more balanced, playing with the current numbers will only hurt one side or the other in the future, as I keep saying more content and ways to trap and kill one another is needed before we get actual balance. King of the Forums // Vehicle Specialist for Hire. Buffing or Debuffing Vehicles or AV will never fix anything.
Jason Pearson 3475	Posted - 2013.12.16 22:50:00 - [5] - Quote ALT2 acc wrote: Jason Pearson wrote: Logi Bro wrote: I occasionally killed Madrugars with my Gunnlogi in 1.6, but everyone knows that Gunnlogi's were complete **** in HAV vs HAV combat back then. A few kills doesn't a balanced game make. Also, I notice you said he took half your shields, and you didn't say he killed you. Maybe it was because even without a hardener you can move like an LAV and still instantly recharge your shields with a booster and you just ran away out of his range? Erm, so confused about your first paragraph and the relevance it has to this post. One volley of Swarms hit me, it took half my shields. The hardener doesn't affect your speed, it affects your resistances and that's the point I was making, the issue is the speed and the fact once my hardener is down I will leave and you will be left firing at nothing. thats the point of the gunlogi, only armor tanks need speed nerf What did you even post m8? Like, your point didn't make sense. If you're nerfing Armor Tanks, you need to nerf Shield Tanks, otherwise you're messing with the balance of Tank v Tank. King of the Forums // Vehicle Specialist for Hire. Buffing or Debuffing Vehicles or AV will never fix anything.
Jason Pearson 3475	Posted - 2013.12.16 22:51:00 - [6] - Quote KING CHECKMATE wrote: Jason Pearson wrote: You AV idiots, "BUFF THE AV" no, don't ***** buff the AV. Taz ran at my Gunnlogi while my hardener was down and took half my shields down with his proto swarms in a single volley. Your issue isn't the damage, its the hardeners and the fact that when they're down we speed away fast to not get hurt. Know the difference. Any smart tanker wont be in AV range while he has no hardeners. I usually have 3 on my MLT sica so....** You hurt my feelings :( It's called human error mate, I might be omfgamazingwtfbbq good, but even I make mistakes. ;) King of the Forums // Vehicle Specialist for Hire. Buffing or Debuffing Vehicles or AV will never fix anything.
Jason Pearson 3476	Posted - 2013.12.16 23:03:00 - [7] - Quote KING CHECKMATE wrote: Jason Pearson wrote: KING CHECKMATE wrote: Jason Pearson wrote: You AV idiots, "BUFF THE AV" no, don't ***** buff the AV. Taz ran at my Gunnlogi while my hardener was down and took half my shields down with his proto swarms in a single volley. Your issue isn't the damage, its the hardeners and the fact that when they're down we speed away fast to not get hurt. Know the difference. Any smart tanker wont be in AV range while he has no hardeners. I usually have 3 on my MLT sica so.... You hurt my feelings :( It's called human error mate, I might be omfgamazingwtfbbq good, but even I make mistakes. ;) NONO i actually consider myself a BAD tanker.I only tank because i play SOLO a lot and its the ONLY way i have to fight tanks. What kind of tanker NEEDS 3 Hardeners to be competitive?....lol me. Anyhow, what im saying is, if you got hit by swarms and they took -+ of your HP down,its not that tanks are Underpowered or AV is overpowered. It HUMAN ERROR, since; without a tankers HUMAN ERROR there really is no way to counter him with AV. Sure, they are really fast and what not,but i insist the MAIN problem with tanks is : GÖª Numbers , AKA : tank spam GÖª Price: So low it encourages tank spam I can deal with having to work really hard to take down 1 or 2 tanks. But i cant deal with the fact the enemy can deploy 6+ at the same time and i dont have any counter to those much...** So, I'm not a bad tanker? yay. The hardcap on vehicles is FIVE, just saying. Anyways I truly believe that if you look past the stuff you're seeing right now, the low prices, the tank spam and look for something like Webifiers and a limit to a single hardener (I roll solo, all I need.) you're going to enjoy the fact the limit is high, because these tanks won't be able to survive for a long time, and simply having a friend using a device that slows down the tank to a crawl so it cant escape will allow you to do what Taz did to me, but successfully. One shot takes off half my shields, so if someone has me moving at lets say 1/10th of my speed, he's gonna get those three off, no? King of the Forums // Vehicle Specialist for Hire. Buffing or Debuffing Vehicles or AV will never fix anything.
Jason Pearson 3477	Posted - 2013.12.16 23:13:00 - [8] - Quote richiesutie 2 wrote: Lets play count the tanks! Now that, is very strange. Legitimately confirmed through tests that it was 5 except for Ambush because iirc it seems to be unlimited. King of the Forums // Vehicle Specialist for Hire. Buffing or Debuffing Vehicles or AV will never fix anything.
Jason Pearson 3477	Posted - 2013.12.16 23:15:00 - [9] - Quote Monkey MAC wrote: Jason Pearson wrote: You AV idiots, "BUFF THE AV" no, don't ******* buff the AV. Taz ran at my Gunnlogi while my hardener was down and took half my shields down with his proto swarms in a single volley. Your issue isn't the damage, its the hardeners and the fact that when they're down we speed away fast to not get hurt. Know the difference. As you know Jason, I agree with you, but the thing is any tanker worth their weight in dirt, knows not tovget caught with your hardners down. We can't exactly nerf Tankers Iq (It does appear to have worked on Spkr - Complaining about RE's), so we need ways to TRAP them, to stop them retreating, to get them where we want them, when we want them! Spkr isn't that bad, I understand the anger at R.Es xD Speed is one of the core issues here, the fact we can get in and out so easily is a little ridiculous, the hit and run thing we're doing should be the LAVs job, their ability to get in and out fast, we should be slower. I believe if Webs, even simplified mines that debuffed a tank to fraction of its speed for 10-15 seconds, would solve many issues and I wouldn't mind being killed that way, my fault for not having Infantry to come up and sweep the roads for me, or kill the AVers. King of the Forums // Vehicle Specialist for Hire. Buffing or Debuffing Vehicles or AV will never fix anything.
Jason Pearson 3481	Posted - 2013.12.16 23:21:00 - [10] - Quote Chunky Munkey wrote: Jason Pearson wrote: You AV idiots, "BUFF THE AV" no, don't ******* buff the AV. Taz ran at my Gunnlogi while my hardener was down and took half my shields down with his proto swarms in a single volley. Your issue isn't the damage, its the hardeners and the fact that when they're down we speed away fast to not get hurt. Know the difference. So the most dedicated AV player in the game caught you at your most vulnerable. Did you survive? I did, I ran and hid the rest of the match, didn't leave my spot. One of the most dedicated AVers vs a very dedicated Tanker, I'm not a stupid player Chunky, you know this, I even used cover to run from the bastard. That said, this is why I made the post, he should've killed me, not from a buffed Swarm Launcher, but because I should be slower, and he should have the option to use traps, I'm sure Taz would like those. King of the Forums // Vehicle Specialist for Hire. Buffing or Debuffing Vehicles or AV will never fix anything.

Jason Pearson 3481	Posted - 2013.12.16 23:23:00 - [11] - Quote Monkey MAC wrote: Jason Pearson wrote: Monkey MAC wrote: Jason Pearson wrote: You AV idiots, "BUFF THE AV" no, don't ******* buff the AV. Taz ran at my Gunnlogi while my hardener was down and took half my shields down with his proto swarms in a single volley. Your issue isn't the damage, its the hardeners and the fact that when they're down we speed away fast to not get hurt. Know the difference. As you know Jason, I agree with you, but the thing is any tanker worth their weight in dirt, knows not tovget caught with your hardners down. We can't exactly nerf Tankers Iq (It does appear to have worked on Spkr - Complaining about RE's), so we need ways to TRAP them, to stop them retreating, to get them where we want them, when we want them! Spkr isn't that bad, I understand the anger at R.Es xD Speed is one of the core issues here, the fact we can get in and out so easily is a little ridiculous, the hit and run thing we're doing should be the LAVs job, their ability to get in and out fast, we should be slower. I believe if Webs, even simplified mines that debuffed a tank to fraction of its speed for 10-15 seconds, would solve many issues and I wouldn't mind being killed that way, my fault for not having Infantry to come up and sweep the roads for me, or kill the AVers. Whats wrong with remote explosives? Jihad Jeeps. King of the Forums // Vehicle Specialist for Hire. Buffing or Debuffing Vehicles or AV will never fix anything.
Jason Pearson 3481	Posted - 2013.12.16 23:25:00 - [12] - Quote Kallas Hallytyr wrote: Jason, I enjoy reading your reasonable posts about tanks. Just thought I'd actually type it visibly... As a dropship pilot, I'm always worried about vehicle balance tweaks: I personally feel that tank speed is one of the most important aspects to tweak right now. My feelings: Gallente need reduced acceleration. Caldari need reduced top speed. I'm not thinking enormous reductions, but at least noticeable. I appreciate the kind words, I try to be reasonable despite my entire playstyle being based on HAVs. Tank speed is one of the important things but I think you've muddled up your races, the Gallente have slow acceleration whereas Caldari have better acceleration, but the Gallente can go faster than Caldari, both require nerfs in both areas anyways. King of the Forums // Vehicle Specialist for Hire. Buffing or Debuffing Vehicles or AV will never fix anything.
Jason Pearson 3481	Posted - 2013.12.16 23:27:00 - [13] - Quote X-eon wrote: So what if when two or more of the same module are placed on a tank and activated they're all activated and deal with stacking penalties and the same cooldown time? Doesn't neccesarily stop you from putting more of the same module on,but brings back the "Wave of Opportunity" because you'd still be susceptible and HAVE to wait through the cooldown. It could work, I still find it cheap and rate any tanker who requires two (except rail v rail, rails are a little broken me thinks) are bad. But yeah, could see that, wouldn't break the "fit whatever you want" thing CCP has going for it :) King of the Forums // Vehicle Specialist for Hire. Buffing or Debuffing Vehicles or AV will never fix anything.
Jason Pearson 3484	Posted - 2013.12.16 23:33:00 - [14] - Quote Monkey MAC wrote: Gorrilla Warfare, its a direct result of tanks being too fast, the window of oppurtunity is so small the best way to get it is to stack remote explosive and drive into it at 100mph! Once tanks are can be countered with convential methods, you'll see considerably less, other than that, they are taking advantage of what few weaknesses tankers have! Be fair. if I'm in your squad the chances that you need to setup a Jihad Jeep to go and kill enemy tanks if a very tiny possibility, yet my squad mates will do it anyways because "It's funny", people aren't doing it out of necessity, but the fact you're still blowing up a lot of ISK in things that cost naff all. King of the Forums // Vehicle Specialist for Hire. Buffing or Debuffing Vehicles or AV will never fix anything.
Jason Pearson 3484	Posted - 2013.12.16 23:43:00 - [15] - Quote ALT2 acc wrote: Jason Pearson wrote: ALT2 acc wrote: Jason Pearson wrote: Logi Bro wrote: I occasionally killed Madrugars with my Gunnlogi in 1.6, but everyone knows that Gunnlogi's were complete **** in HAV vs HAV combat back then. A few kills doesn't a balanced game make. Also, I notice you said he took half your shields, and you didn't say he killed you. Maybe it was because even without a hardener you can move like an LAV and still instantly recharge your shields with a booster and you just ran away out of his range? Erm, so confused about your first paragraph and the relevance it has to this post. One volley of Swarms hit me, it took half my shields. The hardener doesn't affect your speed, it affects your resistances and that's the point I was making. thats the point of the gunlogi, only armor tanks need speed nerf What did you even post m8? Like, your point didn't make sense (ps3 char limit) no armor tanks are slow and tanky, shield tanks are fast, but weaker, even more so on cooldow Perhaps that's the intention but it's not the case, especially here, due to the fact I got hit by missiles which do less damage to my Gunnlogi, if it hit a Madrugar it'd do a lot more. King of the Forums // Vehicle Specialist for Hire. Buffing or Debuffing Vehicles or AV will never fix anything.
Jason Pearson 3488	Posted - 2013.12.16 23:54:00 - [16] - Quote ALT2 acc wrote: ^ 1 swarm shot took half my shields, if gunlogi loses speed i'll never use it again, also python's need at least double the acceleration Yeah? A Madrugar would lose half its armor (If it didn't have its buffer) and also, Madrugars are faster than Gunnlogis. King of the Forums // Vehicle Specialist for Hire. Buffing or Debuffing Vehicles or AV will never fix anything.
Jason Pearson 3488	Posted - 2013.12.17 00:01:00 - [17] - Quote KING CHECKMATE wrote: Jason Pearson wrote: So, I'm not a bad tanker? yay. The hardcap on vehicles is FIVE, just saying. Anyways I truly believe that if you look past the stuff you're seeing right now, the low prices, the tank spam and look for something like Webifiers and a limit to a single hardener (I roll solo, all I need.) you're going to enjoy the fact the limit is high, because these tanks won't be able to survive for a long time, and simply having a friend using a device that slows down the tank to a crawl so it cant escape will allow you to do what Taz did to me, but successfully. One shot takes off half my shields, so if someone has me moving at lets say 1/10th of my speed, he's gonna get those three off, no? GÖª How should i know if you are a good or bad tanker.Never played you , at least not that i remember.I try to not judge if i dont know. GÖª Im pretty sure the Hard cap on Vahicles is MORE than 5.try 6 or 7. GÖª I CANT WAIT FOR WEBIFIERS. We need a solution NOW. Is defo 5 when I try, because 5 tanks rolling around and I'm unable to call another in so I can recall the one infront of me. Join me in spamming the forums with Webifiers, drive it home that this is a good route to take and one Wolfman should get on for 1.8-1.9. King of the Forums // Vehicle Specialist for Hire. Buffing or Debuffing Vehicles or AV will never fix anything.
Jason Pearson 3488	Posted - 2013.12.17 00:04:00 - [18] - Quote ALT2 acc wrote: Jason Pearson wrote: ALT2 acc wrote: ^ 1 swarm shot took half my shields, if gunlogi loses speed i'll never use it again, also python's need at least double the acceleration Yeah? A Madrugar would lose half its armor (If it didn't have its buffer) and also, Madrugars are faster than Gunnlogis. armor does not, and shield dont tano so they dont have a constant rep rate Armor does not what? lose half its armor? It does without the buffer, but is able to rep quickly, but then again the Gunnlogi can also rep just as quick.. "shield dont tank so they dont have a constant rep rate" Can you elaborate?.. King of the Forums // Vehicle Specialist for Hire. Buffing or Debuffing Vehicles or AV will never fix anything.
Jason Pearson 3488	Posted - 2013.12.17 00:09:00 - [19] - Quote ALT2 acc wrote: Jason Pearson wrote: ALT2 acc wrote: Jason Pearson wrote: ALT2 acc wrote: ^ 1 swarm shot took half my shields, if gunlogi loses speed i'll never use it again, also python's need at least double the acceleration Yeah? A Madrugar would lose half its armor (If it didn't have its buffer) and also, Madrugars are faster than Gunnlogis. armor does not, and shield dont tano so they dont have a constant rep rate Armor does not what? lose half its armor? It does without the buffer, but is able to rep quickly, but then again the Gunnlogi can also rep just as quick.. "shield dont tank so they dont have a constant rep rate" Can you elaborate?.. since im no noob, i have 1 rep 1 hardener, i dont get half armor gone, but i lose alot, but not half, otherwise tanks would be TOO vurlnerable When you have 0 shields and no hardener, how much would a proto swarm do? King of the Forums // Vehicle Specialist for Hire. Buffing or Debuffing Vehicles or AV will never fix anything.