DUST Search - Friendly Fire in FW is SO BROKEN!

Jadek Menaheim wrote:

Aeon Amadi wrote:

John Demonsbane wrote:

My only 2 intentional TK's so far were to save a teammate from this exact fate.

Perhaps an SP requirement for entry into FW would help? Make it so that you have to have x amount more than the starter SP and you can slow (not stop) the flood of greifer alts that are used for this BS.

Tellin' you man, don't have to do all that. Just remove the 'punish' feature entirely and make it so that it auto-kicks after 'x' teamkills/suicides. No-one who's playing legitimately is going to go that far.

You'll have to watch out for spawn pads placed in bugged collision boxes and on particular map hazards. What counts as a suicide? Taping the suicide button in the neocom? Purposefully running in front of fire? Having a vehicle fall on you? Jumping off a high ledge repeatedly? There are so many possibilities tied to core game mechanics that distinguishing between death and suicide in this game becomes too great a can of worms to sort out.

Really, what can a legitimate death-kick figure be? 20? 15? 10? If a team of six dedicated suiciders pops into a match they can farm their 9 deaths each, and roll on to the next faction match whilst leaving the team down a third on squad capacity. The damage is done. Yes, death counts could track across play sessions, but at that point we arrive back at the point of being able to accurately distinguish between death and suicide.

The best you can do is implement a merc security rating. 1.0 through 0.0. These ratings would impact the types of matches you could enter.

Security Rating could be determined by several factors (yet not limited to):
-KDR
-Team Kill Count
-Team Damage Figures

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Jadek Menaheim Xer Cloud Consortium 706	Posted - 2013.12.16 21:13:00 - [31] - Quote XJC1 wrote: Jadek Menaheim wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: Jadek Menaheim wrote: stlcarlos989 wrote: Same guy did the same thing to me, on his reload I put him down then hunted him the rest of the match to return the favor. Doesn't particularly do much good sir. If he runs a squishy starter suit the most you've accomplished is knocking another clone off your team's counter. It's no issue to him--on the contrary you're helping his goals. Doesn't matter what you do, he wins. And there's good money in it. Certain benefactors quite enjoy the sweet taste of tears. But no one ever pays me in gum Keep working the beat good sir. You'll find your silent partner. [sig=hex.dec]4d7920313333372048617830727a2078706c6f747a20522058706f7364206259206c766c2035204330646562386b727a[/sig]
Michael Arck Anubis Prime Syndicate 2249	Posted - 2013.12.16 21:17:00 - [32] - Quote I read the first few lines and I thought... How can you say FF is broken when a player is obviously abusing the system for his own benefit. You can't blame the mechanic...you gotta blame the player on that one. Hey, its the way of the world. Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. For the State!! [email protected]
Aeon Amadi A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S. Renegade Alliance 4152	Posted - 2013.12.16 21:37:00 - [33] - Quote XJC1 wrote: OZAROW wrote: I take it this guy doesn't like you lol I tend to target anyone wearing proto gear or anyone who is leading a squad. I initially killed Aeon because he was in protogear, then after realizing who he was continued to kill him repeatedly until I got kicked. Ah, so we're supposed to use standard AV in Faction Warfare matches against Tanks. Got'cha, cool - now that I know I promise I will use it permanently from this point on. 'bout to see how much money a PC fighter can -really- dish out, bub. forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m= (Frames)1544109 (Advertisement)1556863 (Packs)1570030 (Lag Hunt) 1570201
XJC1 Gankster's Paradice 8	Posted - 2013.12.16 21:45:00 - [34] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: XJC1 wrote: OZAROW wrote: I take it this guy doesn't like you lol I tend to target anyone wearing proto gear or anyone who is leading a squad. I initially killed Aeon because he was in protogear, then after realizing who he was continued to kill him repeatedly until I got kicked. Ah, so we're supposed to use standard AV in Faction Warfare matches against Tanks. Got'cha, cool - now that I know I promise I will use it permanently from this point on. 'bout to see how much money a PC fighter can -really- dish out, bub. Glad to know A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S.'s many districts are paying them so well. Join Gankster's Paradice for Gall/Min Griefing. Chat Channel: Griefaholics No mics, no mains. 1.00 KDR maximum.
Aeon Amadi A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S. Renegade Alliance 4152	Posted - 2013.12.16 21:47:00 - [35] - Quote XJC1 wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: XJC1 wrote: OZAROW wrote: I take it this guy doesn't like you lol I tend to target anyone wearing proto gear or anyone who is leading a squad. I initially killed Aeon because he was in protogear, then after realizing who he was continued to kill him repeatedly until I got kicked. Ah, so we're supposed to use standard AV in Faction Warfare matches against Tanks. Got'cha, cool - now that I know I promise I will use it permanently from this point on. 'bout to see how much money a PC fighter can -really- dish out, bub. Glad to know A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S.'s many districts are paying them so well. Hey baby, I got reserves from the war forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m= (Frames)1544109 (Advertisement)1556863 (Packs)1570030 (Lag Hunt) 1570201
Aeon Amadi A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S. Renegade Alliance 4152	Posted - 2013.12.16 21:48:00 - [36] - Quote XJC1 wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: XJC1 wrote: OZAROW wrote: I take it this guy doesn't like you lol I tend to target anyone wearing proto gear or anyone who is leading a squad. I initially killed Aeon because he was in protogear, then after realizing who he was continued to kill him repeatedly until I got kicked. Ah, so we're supposed to use standard AV in Faction Warfare matches against Tanks. Got'cha, cool - now that I know I promise I will use it permanently from this point on. 'bout to see how much money a PC fighter can -really- dish out, bub. Glad to know A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S.'s many districts are paying them so well. Answer me this though, what made you so butt hurt that you turned it personal? Why you mad bro? forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m= (Frames)1544109 (Advertisement)1556863 (Packs)1570030 (Lag Hunt) 1570201
Nomed Deeps The Exemplars Top Men. 252	Posted - 2013.12.16 21:50:00 - [37] - Quote The mechanics are not so much the problem as the people using them to troll. A good example is my team was red lined last night due to the help of enemy tanks and an assault dropship. Due to heavy enemy vehicles, I switch to Forge. I get a Forge shot off and as I charge up my second, I noticed I am taking fire from my left. I release before fully charged to turn and see blue dot Red Panda Girl. I took it as an accident, turn back, and start to charge my second shot again but before I can release, Red Panda Girl jumps into my line of fire where if I release, I;d would kill her. Therefore, I tried to go around while still charged but she easily keeps up staying in my line of sight shooting me as I go. Finally, I had enough and let my Forge shot fly into her face simply to get her out of my way. No longer hindered, I empty the rest of my clip on a tank, reload, and start to charge up again to see Red Panda Girl again jump into my line of fire. Long story short, this continued for the rest of the game. Red Panda Girl ended up going 0/14. The easy solution to this is to provide a team kick vote like other shooters in generations past have done. I doubt ever seeing a team kick vote in DUST though.
Aeon Amadi A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S. Renegade Alliance 4153	Posted - 2013.12.16 21:53:00 - [38] - Quote Nomed Deeps wrote: The mechanics are not so much the problem as the people using them to troll. A good example is my team was red lined last night due to the help of enemy tanks and an assault dropship. Due to heavy enemy vehicles, I switch to Forge. I get a Forge shot off and as I charge up my second, I noticed I am taking fire from my left. I release before fully charged to turn and see blue dot Red Panda Girl. I took it as an accident, turn back, and start to charge my second shot again but before I can release, Red Panda Girl jumps into my line of fire where if I release, I;d would kill her. Therefore, I tried to go around while still charged but she easily keeps up staying in my line of sight shooting me as I go. Finally, I had enough and let my Forge shot fly into her face simply to get her out of my way. No longer hindered, I empty the rest of my clip on a tank, reload, and start to charge up again to see Red Panda Girl again jump into my line of fire. Long story short, this continued for the rest of the game. Red Panda Girl ended up going 0/14. The easy solution to this is to provide a team kick vote like other shooters in generations past have done. I doubt ever seeing a team kick vote in DUST though. Don't even have to go that far, just make it so that if you get 'x' team-kills/suicides PERIOD you are banned. Plain and simple. forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m= (Frames)1544109 (Advertisement)1556863 (Packs)1570030 (Lag Hunt) 1570201
Grease Spillett Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance 240	Posted - 2013.12.16 22:32:00 - [39] - Quote I just got XCJ2 kicked from FW one minute ago. You're welcome. Next time you see me, bring more friends. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gBM5hM5LdDw
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics League of Infamy 698	Posted - 2013.12.16 22:53:00 - [40] - Quote My only 2 intentional TK's so far were to save a teammate from this exact fate. Perhaps an SP requirement for entry into FW would help? Make it so that you have to have x amount more than the starter SP and you can slow (not stop) the flood of greifer alts that are used for this BS. "The line between disorder and order lies in logistics" -Sun Tzu Amarr victor!

Roy Ventus Foxhound Corporation General Tso's Alliance 712	Posted - 2013.12.16 22:56:00 - [41] - Quote When has the hit detection been that bad... Most of my stuff connects...Maybe it was lag? I'm more inclined to believe that. "There once was a time when there wasn't a Roy Ventus and it wasn't much of a time at all." Roy Ventus
Aeon Amadi A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S. Renegade Alliance 4155	Posted - 2013.12.16 22:58:00 - [42] - Quote John Demonsbane wrote: My only 2 intentional TK's so far were to save a teammate from this exact fate. Perhaps an SP requirement for entry into FW would help? Make it so that you have to have x amount more than the starter SP and you can slow (not stop) the flood of greifer alts that are used for this BS. Tellin' you man, don't have to do all that. Just remove the 'punish' feature entirely and make it so that it auto-kicks after 'x' teamkills/suicides. No-one who's playing legitimately is going to go that far. forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m= (Frames)1544109 (Advertisement)1556863 (Packs)1570030 (Lag Hunt) 1570201
Jadek Menaheim Xer Cloud Consortium 707	Posted - 2013.12.16 23:13:00 - [43] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: John Demonsbane wrote: My only 2 intentional TK's so far were to save a teammate from this exact fate. Perhaps an SP requirement for entry into FW would help? Make it so that you have to have x amount more than the starter SP and you can slow (not stop) the flood of greifer alts that are used for this BS. Tellin' you man, don't have to do all that. Just remove the 'punish' feature entirely and make it so that it auto-kicks after 'x' teamkills/suicides. No-one who's playing legitimately is going to go that far. You'll have to watch out for spawn pads placed in bugged collision boxes and on particular map hazards. What counts as a suicide? Taping the suicide button in the neocom? Purposefully running in front of fire? Having a vehicle fall on you? Jumping off a high ledge repeatedly? There are so many possibilities tied to core game mechanics that distinguishing between death and suicide in this game becomes too great a can of worms to sort out. Really, what can a legitimate death-kick figure be? 20? 15? 10? If a team of six dedicated suiciders pops into a match they can farm their 9 deaths each, and roll on to the next faction match whilst leaving the team down a third on squad capacity. The damage is done. Yes, death counts could track across play sessions, but at that point we arrive back at the point of being able to accurately distinguish between death and suicide. The best you can do is implement a merc security rating. 1.0 through 0.0. These ratings would impact the types of matches you could enter. Security Rating could be determined by several factors (yet not limited to): -KDR -Team Kill Count -Team Damage Figures [sig=hex.dec]4d7920313333372048617830727a2078706c6f747a20522058706f7364206259206c766c2035204330646562386b727a[/sig]
Aeon Amadi A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S. Renegade Alliance 4156	Posted - 2013.12.16 23:22:00 - [44] - Quote Jadek Menaheim wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: John Demonsbane wrote: My only 2 intentional TK's so far were to save a teammate from this exact fate. Perhaps an SP requirement for entry into FW would help? Make it so that you have to have x amount more than the starter SP and you can slow (not stop) the flood of greifer alts that are used for this BS. Tellin' you man, don't have to do all that. Just remove the 'punish' feature entirely and make it so that it auto-kicks after 'x' teamkills/suicides. No-one who's playing legitimately is going to go that far. You'll have to watch out for spawn pads placed in bugged collision boxes and on particular map hazards. What counts as a suicide? Taping the suicide button in the neocom? Purposefully running in front of fire? Having a vehicle fall on you? Jumping off a high ledge repeatedly? There are so many possibilities tied to core game mechanics that distinguishing between death and suicide in this game becomes too great a can of worms to sort out. Really, what can a legitimate death-kick figure be? 20? 15? 10? If a team of six dedicated suiciders pops into a match they can farm their 9 deaths each, and roll on to the next faction match whilst leaving the team down a third on squad capacity. The damage is done. Yes, death counts could track across play sessions, but at that point we arrive back at the point of being able to accurately distinguish between death and suicide. The best you can do is implement a merc security rating. 1.0 through 0.0. These ratings would impact the types of matches you could enter. Security Rating could be determined by several factors (yet not limited to): -KDR -Team Kill Count -Team Damage Figures If six people can all agree to AWOX an FW match by way of suicide - they were going to accomplish that anyway; there's not enough incentive solely to do that. Just as well, I can't -ever- recall a match where I committed suicide - accidentally - more than four times. You have to actually TRY at that point. forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m= (Frames)1544109 (Advertisement)1556863 (Packs)1570030 (Lag Hunt) 1570201
Jadek Menaheim Xer Cloud Consortium 707	Posted - 2013.12.16 23:31:00 - [45] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: If six people can all agree to AWOX an FW match by way of suicide - they were going to accomplish that anyway; there's not enough incentive solely to do that. Just as well, I can't -ever- recall a match where I committed suicide - accidentally - more than four times. You have to actually TRY at that point. Regardless, what do you think about the suggestion for implementing a security rating? [sig=hex.dec]4d7920313333372048617830727a2078706c6f747a20522058706f7364206259206c766c2035204330646562386b727a[/sig]
Rentoku Gratzl Legion of Eden Covert Intervention 10	Posted - 2013.12.16 23:37:00 - [46] - Quote I'm confused here, and haven't seen it mentioned yet. A tip on the loading screen says "use a nanite injector to revive a team mate and save your team a clone" so why is it costing clone-count to revive people? Surely it makes no sense logically either as a new fit hasn't been loaded with the mercenary's brain implant data and deployed, the current one has been repaired, meaning no resources have been used to do so? agree that an auto -kick is needed for a number of kills. and vehicles too! my DS dropped on someone and i got kicked, and lost a ship and a proto fit too! Kicking shouldn't make you lose a fit IMO and your vehicle.hasnt been destroyed so that should be fine too
castba Penguin's March 256	Posted - 2013.12.16 23:44:00 - [47] - Quote I have never understood why the death counts when you can be revived. Surely the death should only count when you are forced to spawn - you know, when the clone actually expires
Aeon Amadi A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S. Renegade Alliance 4160	Posted - 2013.12.17 00:00:00 - [48] - Quote Rentoku Gratzl wrote: I'm confused here, and haven't seen it mentioned yet. A tip on the loading screen says "use a nanite injector to revive a team mate and save your team a clone" so why is it costing clone-count to revive people? Surely it makes no sense logically either as a new fit hasn't been loaded with the mercenary's brain implant data and deployed, the current one has been repaired, meaning no resources have been used to do so? agree that an auto -kick is needed for a number of kills. and vehicles too! my DS dropped on someone and i got kicked, and lost a ship and a proto fit too! Kicking shouldn't make you lose a fit IMO and your vehicle.hasnt been destroyed so that should be fine too All the deaths totalled in that match came out as 180, so it might not take from your clone reserves but it will if you kill him and try to stop the problem. Just as well, it's not doing the team any favors having one person getting screwed over and the other not doing anything beneficial. forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m= (Frames)1544109 (Advertisement)1556863 (Packs)1570030 (Lag Hunt) 1570201
Jadek Menaheim Xer Cloud Consortium 707	Posted - 2013.12.17 00:49:00 - [49] - Quote castba wrote: I have never understood why the death counts when you can be revived. Surely the death should only count when you are forced to spawn - you know, when the clone actually expires Agreed. I would be fine with a system that gave 35 pts for incapacitating a merc, then 10 pts for bleed out. A straight kill would remain 50 pts, and a headshot which eliminates all chance of revival, awards 60 pts. [sig=hex.dec]4d7920313333372048617830727a2078706c6f747a20522058706f7364206259206c766c2035204330646562386b727a[/sig]
Bunny Demon Scions of Athra 25	Posted - 2013.12.17 18:37:00 - [50] - Quote Lanius Pulvis wrote: I've gotten TKed twice intentionally and once on accident and never gotten the option to punish. It's a tiny option, when the kill screen comes up it is: X- call for help []- punish O- respawn If you press O you can't then punish (I believe) so if you are on the map it's too late Donate isk to the guy above ^ (Or me, whichever you prefer)

Seymor Krelborn DUST University Ivy League 1640	Posted - 2013.12.17 19:04:00 - [51] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: For ******* real? Guy named XJC1 used a Shotgun and a Nanite Injector to kill me repeatedly. He would revive me faster than I could hit the 'punish' button and the only times I could kill him in return was when he was reloading after reviving me - thereby, he could punish me for the team kills but I couldn't punish him. I'll let this picture speak for itself. This in combination with another player committing suicide FORTY TIMES led to our team losing due to clone reserves being depleted. Funny thing was? Ole boy wasn't even on either of the team lists. http://i.imgur.com/uFSCzWJ.jpg http://i.imgur.com/hwGv2gq.jpg Yet, I get banned twice for using RE's and a Tank? Edit: Link to a similar thread with a video of XJC2. https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=127880 Edit: Keynotes: - Can't punish him because you can't even get a screen up to do so. - Can't leave the battle because you're dying/being revived before the menu opens (effectively have to turn off the console). - If you kill him, he can punish you and eventually get you banned. - Even IF you kill him you're just depleting your team's clone count. - He's EARNING War Points for doing this because it's +60 for the revive -50 for the team-kill (maybe) Effectively means all you can do is sit there and watching your team lose the battle due to clone reserves being depleted or personally suffer a 24 Hour ban. Either way, he just moves on and does it to someone else in that battle or in a different battle. THANKS CCP!!!! working as intended... CCp's newest joke, making setting off your own remote explosives in FW FF... awesome job ccp.


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