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True Adamance
Scions of Athra
4917
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Posted - 2013.12.16 08:49:00 -
[1] - Quote
I have been considering this for a while now but there really are some oddities with the way tanks operate this build as opposed to the previous build that perhaps I think some of your more notable tankers and knowledgible players might be able to point out for me.
The first are tank roles.
Armour vs Shield....it seems to me that the Shield tanks have become the stand and deliver HAV as opposed to the hit and run like they were supposed to be. I say this because all damage modules are in high slots, as well as propulsion modules. I would have assumed that in order to use the hit and run style more effectively you would need speed and fire power to hammer your target hard. Yet considering the modules effectiveness I find it hard to imagine this is case.
Armour hardening modules are weaker that their shield counter parts and by far more susceptible to the majority of AV fire than shields. Apart from the plates which simply give a larger base HP I feel that shield modules top armour modules in every way. The Hardeners are 20% better, standard shield recharge is immeadiately better than the passive armour repper, which is essentially like having a repper for free with a 60% resist to top it off.
Shield HAV have vastly superior handling and torque which makes them exceptionally nice to handle in combat, with the capacity to turn the tank faster than turret turning speed, while stationary, as opposed to the slow, forward back wards turn of the armour tank. In most combat scenarios I have found this to be the determining factor of whether or not I have lost or won the engagement.
In terms of fitting modules I also seems like the Shield HAV wins out. I have heard tell of people fitting Sica with shield extenders, resists, armour reppers, etc.....however seems to me that I can barely fit a turret, Armour resist, and repper to my Soma. Is this supposed to be the case? Seems to me that I can get everything better in a shield tank.
Now I'm not QQing I'm just wondering if people can explain to me the purpose of the Soma/Maddy in the new build? Am I supposed to make a glass Cannon Maddy? Or can the Maddy still be run as a stand and deliver tank?
I mean I wont spec shields for a very long time, only went armour because I hope that one day Amarr HAV will be introduced.....more fool me.
Anyone got some good Maddy fits? Even Soma fits would be good.
"Shudder. Again another smart idea from an Amarr..."- Forlorn Destrier (11/12/13) LAWL
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True Adamance
Scions of Athra
4918
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Posted - 2013.12.16 09:07:00 -
[2] - Quote
No one who can suggest a fitting, or has anything to say about these oddities...... I mean the one this that strikes me as odd and utterly ridiculous is that Armour reps are passive?
Since when I EVE were they passive?
"Shudder. Again another smart idea from an Amarr..."- Forlorn Destrier (11/12/13) LAWL
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Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
4188
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Posted - 2013.12.16 10:53:00 -
[3] - Quote
True Adamance wrote:Armour vs Shield....it seems to me that the Shield tanks have become the stand and deliver HAV as opposed to the hit and run like they were supposed to be. I say this because all damage modules are in high slots, as well as propulsion modules. I would have assumed that in order to use the hit and run style more effectively you would need speed and fire power to hammer your target hard. Yet considering the modules effectiveness I find it hard to imagine this is case.
Shield tanks need to fill the high slots with our tank, so we can't bring damage or propulsion mods without sacrificing durability. Any such upgrades will come at the cost of a Hardener, Extender or Booster. Armour tanks can have full tank in their low slots AND stack a couple of damage mods, making them both durable AND deadly, something shield tanks can't achieve as effectively.
Quote:Armour hardening modules are weaker that their shield counter parts and by far more susceptible to the majority of AV fire than shields. Apart from the plates which simply give a larger base HP I feel that shield modules top armour modules in every way. The Hardeners are 20% better, standard shield recharge is immeadiately better than the passive armour repper, which is essentially like having a repper for free with a 60% resist to top it off.
Armour mods provide less protection, but armour has a "buffer" before taking damage to your main tank. On top of that, armour modules have a more pilot-friendly duration/cooldown balance. And reppers may not give you as high a regen value, but unlike shield recharge, damage doesn't interrupt your armour repair.
Quote:Shield HAV have vastly superior handling and torque which makes them exceptionally nice to handle in combat, with the capacity to turn the tank faster than turret turning speed, while stationary, as opposed to the slow, forward back wards turn of the armour tank. In most combat scenarios I have found this to be the determining factor of whether or not I have lost or won the engagement.
Shield tank handling is better, but armour tanks have an advantage in straight-line movement. The extra agility allows for shield tanks to fill the hit-and-run role easier because they can go from the "stand and shoot" position into a full retreat much quicker than armour tanks can. Armour tanks can move into position from the rear lines faster, but once in position, they don't really want to be moving on until the enemy has been cleared.
Quote:In terms of fitting modules I also seems like the Shield HAV wins out. I have heard tell of people fitting Sica with shield extenders, resists, armour reppers, etc.....however seems to me that I can barely fit a turret, Armour resist, and repper to my Soma. Is this supposed to be the case? Seems to me that I can get everything better in a shield tank.
Hybrid turrets are easier to fit on armour tanks, because of the PG/CPU balance between the two. With a Missile Turret, and a decent amount of SP investment, a Sica can be fitted rather well, but the same goes for a decently-skilled player with a Soma and a Blaster or Railgun Turret.
Quote:Now I'm not QQing I'm just wondering if people can explain to me the purpose of the Soma/Maddy in the new build? Am I supposed to make a glass Cannon Maddy? Or can the Maddy still be run as a stand and deliver tank?
As mentioned, a Madrugar with damage mods still has all its low slots open for tank, making it FAR from a glass cannon. |
THEAMAZING POTHEAD
Nyain San
Renegade Alliance
677
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Posted - 2013.12.16 11:20:00 -
[4] - Quote
armor tanks are tank killers when its blaster vs blaster and rail vs rail.
however the shield tanks can basically be invulnerable for a short amount of time w/ 2 hardeners whereas armor tanks are just really really tough for a longer time.
best tank fits for a maddy is usually 2 armor hardeners + heavy rep. if you can fit shield hardeners in the highs as well, do it, otherwise go fuel injector/scanner.
Gunnys have the privilege of being able to run 3 hardeners though, for a 3rd being reserved for escapes if your 2 are cooling, or you can put an extender/booster on instead if youre worried about railguns hitting you before you could activate hardeners.
But ya shields were better in chrome for anti infantry too for the same reason-maneuverability.
But the extra time you get w/ armor hardeners seems like an eternity, and a single armor hardener tends to get the job done. |
Operative 1171 Aajli
Bragian Order
Amarr Empire
856
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Posted - 2013.12.16 11:50:00 -
[5] - Quote
That repper man. Dual is better. With shields you take a hit and roll off so they go back up then roll back in. Armor can keep the rep up unless it gets big burst damage. Then the hardners handle burst damage. I suppose I'll use hardeners on the sheild tank when I get those skills up. But, so far I still like having the base hp extenders and just rolling out to pop them back up.
Do your part. Join the revolution. Sabotage FW. Help this game burn!
BURN DUST 2014
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Lorhak Gannarsein
734
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Posted - 2013.12.16 11:59:00 -
[6] - Quote
Maddy can tank moderate AV for extended periods where Gunny can ignore massive AB for a short period then has to gtfo. Gunny has either shorter cycle times or a better gun - seriously, try fitting a particle cannon on a Maddy. It's hard.
I can usually outmanoeuvre armour tanks in my Gunny, but on a flat he'll eat me.
The trick with a shield tank is that you have to unload massive DPS in a short period, which you can do fairly easily considering you don't need to waste slots for a repper. I can fit a damage mod no problems on all my fits, and the incredible DPS it gives me means I can ingest basically every Madrugar I meet, no matter what I'm running. If I can't, it's simply because I was outplayed.
My hardeners allow me to essentially ignore damage from all sources bar damage modded railguns for 24s, but after that I need to be gone. My acceleration is helpful here.
I'd argue that a Gunnlogi is superior at AV, and is good at the start of mathes where people don't yet have AV; start the killing then when you're hit, bail w/ hardeners on.
I hear the best armour fit is 2x repper, 1x hardener. Probably won't be able to fit complex mods with a proto turret, but hey.
>Cosgar: You know, tanks are actually paper thin once their modules are in cooldown.
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Roger Cordill
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar
DARKSTAR ARMY
265
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Posted - 2013.12.16 12:02:00 -
[7] - Quote
message from Godin: You can only perma run hardeners with Shield vehicles, and still have a PROTO turret (of any kind with enough skills). Maddy's need a CPU buff, or blasters need a CPU reduction and PG nerf. |
Tebu Gan
Dem Durrty Boyz
Renegade Alliance
307
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Posted - 2013.12.16 13:02:00 -
[8] - Quote
Man fellas, I blow maddies up all day long.
Gunnlogi
Pro Missiles
Hardener, Booster, Dmg Amp.
Most every maddie I come to, I pop on my Dmg Amp, and unleash hell.
Usually they blow up before I reach my last missile.
Nuff Said
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