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Rusty Shallows 580	Posted - 2013.12.16 09:15:00 - [31] - Quote Freshticles wrote: Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui wrote: Faunher wrote: The problem currently as I see it is that militia tanks are too effective and cheap for how accessible they are. With only 80k and 0 skillpoints, you are given a very large force multiplier on the field. A quick fix would be to up the cost of militia tanks, reduce their fitting capabilities, and maybe knock of a high and low slot depending on which tank we are talking about. This is NOT dealing with the issue . So NOW you want to make the game harder for those who are unskilled and exclude any efforts made by them , to force them to skill into tanks and since you have made militia tanks weaker now those who have skilled into tanks beforehand will have a greater advantage over the newly skilled tankers ( even though they might not be better than the newer tankers ) so now you will reign supreme . Brilliant plan for the power hungry players of Dust who love to lord over those who are lesser than them , always looking to kick the little people while they are down and HATE for the playing field to be anywhere near even . So much hypocrisy and irony in this post I can't tell if I'm being trolled or not. Take a look at militia drop suits, then come back with this baseless argument and see if it still has any dignity left. I'm going to bet "No" -Tank vet -Assault drop ships level 5 -Militia tank user, nerf em. Just throwing out words like hypocrisy and irony aren't going to make the grade. An example of hypocrisy would be saying that one's own HAV should be combat effective while someone else's should be less so. The irony is a HAV user going after other HAV users instead of the expected complaints towards non-HAV AV tools. MCC Lounge Lizard Forums > Game Fix the game CCP
Freshticles DIOS EX. 332	Posted - 2013.12.16 10:17:00 - [32] - Quote Rusty Shallows wrote: Freshticles wrote: Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui wrote: Faunher wrote: The problem currently as I see it is that militia tanks are too effective and cheap for how accessible they are. With only 80k and 0 skillpoints, you are given a very large force multiplier on the field. A quick fix would be to up the cost of militia tanks, reduce their fitting capabilities, and maybe knock of a high and low slot depending on which tank we are talking about. This is NOT dealing with the issue . So NOW you want to make the game harder for those who are unskilled and exclude any efforts made by them , to force them to skill into tanks and since you have made militia tanks weaker now those who have skilled into tanks beforehand will have a greater advantage over the newly skilled tankers ( even though they might not be better than the newer tankers ) so now you will reign supreme . Brilliant plan for the power hungry players of Dust who love to lord over those who are lesser than them , always looking to kick the little people while they are down and HATE for the playing field to be anywhere near even . So much hypocrisy and irony in this post I can't tell if I'm being trolled or not. Take a look at militia drop suits, then come back with this baseless argument and see if it still has any dignity left. I'm going to bet "No" -Tank vet -Assault drop ships level 5 -Militia tank user, nerf em. Just throwing out words like hypocrisy and irony aren't going to make the grade. An example of hypocrisy would be saying that one's own HAV should be combat effective while someone else's should be less so. The irony is a HAV user going after other HAV users instead of the expected complaints towards non-HAV AV tools. The hypocrisy is claiming militia tanks should be as effective as standard tanks, which is an absurd point. He claims we try and cry to give ourselves an advantage when he is defending his own agenda. Our views aren't hypocrisy, because we're not using an inferior version of the HAV. People that don't have -15m skill points into the role and paying a fraction of the price should not be as effective as those that are. Edit: Also I haven't had a need to complain about AV yet. If I meet a swarm user in my armour tank, fair enough. If my hardness are down fair play, I'm fairly vulnerable. If my hardness are up, he shouldn't have attacked me, just waited. The key to playing AV is finding the window of opportunity. I respect those who can do that. Level 9001 Forum Wizard
Operative 1171 Aajli Bragian Order Amarr Empire 856	Posted - 2013.12.16 11:31:00 - [33] - Quote Spkr4theDead wrote: Faunher wrote: The problem is not the tankers... It's the hundreds of people running around with ridiculously accessible and effective militia tanks, who often have not a single skill point in vehicles. If we are going to be whining about an issue with the game, we need to be certain we are addressing the right issue. So what do you think is the "right" issue? Lol, he stated it in his post. Do your part. Join the revolution. Sabotage FW. Help this game burn! BURN DUST 2014
Old Bstard The Walking Targets 12	Posted - 2013.12.16 11:40:00 - [34] - Quote Green Living wrote: Yeah man. It's back to the MCC to AFK for me. Have had enough. As long as you are not on my team. Do me a favor and just turn the game off otherwise. Players that AFK are such a waste of space.
Takahiro Kashuken Red Star. EoN. 1939	Posted - 2013.12.16 11:41:00 - [35] - Quote burning powers wrote: Tanks are being a constant problem and will kill Dust if they are continuing to litter the battlefield. now days we only see 5 tanks roaming the maps from the enemy or allied forces. This has what the game has become.. Only the tank survives now. It was protobears killing DUST Now its tanks Yea no **** easy to avoid tanks as infantry or even in a LAV
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 11288	Posted - 2013.12.16 12:58:00 - [36] - Quote Hey I actually go out there with my tank to blow up other tanks most of the time. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Rail and Combat Rifle =// Unlocked
Sylwester Dziewiecki Interregnum. 218	Posted - 2013.12.16 14:52:00 - [37] - Quote Maciej Szambelan wrote: Sylwester Dziewiecki wrote: burning powers wrote: Tanks are being a constant problem and will kill Dust if they are continuing to litter the battlefield. now days we only see 5 tanks roaming the maps from the enemy or allied forces. This has what the game has become.. Only the tank survives now. So many challenges, this game is boring - let's play farmville on facebook instead. It is maybe a challenge for guys with 20+ milion SP but definitely not for new players with only a couple of milion sp.. the game now should be called how to kill a tank or tanks vs the rest.. It will kill the game! Starter character is able to use Adv.SL instantly before he even play the game, beside militia hav cost nothing and are quite good(they have longest window of vulnerability). I'm here since may 2012, my EVE alter ego is Nosum Hseebnrido.
Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui KOBAYASHI MARU PROJECT 218	Posted - 2013.12.16 14:53:00 - [38] - Quote Freshticles wrote: Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui wrote: Faunher wrote: The problem currently as I see it is that militia tanks are too effective and cheap for how accessible they are. With only 80k and 0 skillpoints, you are given a very large force multiplier on the field. A quick fix would be to up the cost of militia tanks, reduce their fitting capabilities, and maybe knock of a high and low slot depending on which tank we are talking about. This is NOT dealing with the issue . So NOW you want to make the game harder for those who are unskilled and exclude any efforts made by them , to force them to skill into tanks and since you have made militia tanks weaker now those who have skilled into tanks beforehand will have a greater advantage over the newly skilled tankers ( even though they might not be better than the newer tankers ) so now you will reign supreme . Brilliant plan for the power hungry players of Dust who love to lord over those who are lesser than them , always looking to kick the little people while they are down and HATE for the playing field to be anywhere near even . So much hypocrisy and irony in this post I can't tell if I'm being trolled or not. Take a look at militia drop suits, then come back with this baseless argument and see if it still has any dignity left. I'm going to bet "No" -Tank vet -Assault drop ships level 5 -Militia tank user, nerf em. You people trip me out when you expound on your personal numbers like that gives YOU some sort of creditability . Puff your chest out somewhere else because I might just prick it and let all the air out .. you windbag . People in this community are some of the worst in gamming when it comes to humility and to be arrogant in a video game tells a lot about your personal behavior as a whole . " Get good " , Prof 5 in everything and closed beta vet is thrown around like a baseball in the Mexican summer league and IT ALL MEANS NOTHING . That doesn't mean that you people are GURU's and this is a Fu$#ing video game folks , if this is all that you have going for you in your life , then that's just sad and this is how most of you speak on a daily basis . Your not a tank vet . People in the military who drive tanks for a living are TANK VET 's ... GET A LIFE !!!!! For all of YOUR expounding you die the same from being shot ( with militia ) by someone who just downloaded Dust 514 ,15 minuets ago . All of you people who speak like this talk like this game is your profession and if that's the case and CCP is not on your paystub then you have " NO creditability " .... NONE !!! " BANE " of ALL vehicle users , Crush , Kill and Destroy ALL vehicles !!!!!
Surt gods end Demon Ronin 1337	Posted - 2013.12.16 15:03:00 - [39] - Quote Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui wrote: Freshticles wrote: Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui wrote: Faunher wrote: The problem currently as I see it is that militia tanks are too effective and cheap for how accessible they are. With only 80k and 0 skillpoints, you are given a very large force multiplier on the field. A quick fix would be to up the cost of militia tanks, reduce their fitting capabilities, and maybe knock of a high and low slot depending on which tank we are talking about. This is NOT dealing with the issue . So NOW you want to make the game harder for those who are unskilled and exclude any efforts made by them , to force them to skill into tanks and since you have made militia tanks weaker now those who have skilled into tanks beforehand will have a greater advantage over the newly skilled tankers ( even though they might not be better than the newer tankers ) so now you will reign supreme . Brilliant plan for the power hungry players of Dust who love to lord over those who are lesser than them , always looking to kick the little people while they are down and HATE for the playing field to be anywhere near even . So much hypocrisy and irony in this post I can't tell if I'm being trolled or not. Take a look at militia drop suits, then come back with this baseless argument and see if it still has any dignity left. I'm going to bet "No" -Tank vet -Assault drop ships level 5 -Militia tank user, nerf em. You people trip me out when you expound on your personal numbers like that gives YOU some sort of creditability . Puff your chest out somewhere else because I might just prick it and let all the air out .. you windbag . People in this community are some of the worst in gamming when it comes to humility and to be arrogant in a video game tells a lot about your personal behavior as a whole . " Get good " , Prof 5 in everything and closed beta vet is thrown around like a baseball in the Mexican summer league and IT ALL MEANS NOTHING . That doesn't mean that you people are GURU's and this is a Fu$#ing video game folks , if this is all that you have going for you in your life , then that's just sad and this is how most of you speak on a daily basis . Your not a tank vet . People in the military who drive tanks for a living are TANK VET 's ... GET A LIFE !!!!! For all of YOUR expounding you die the same from being shot ( with militia ) by someone who just downloaded Dust 514 ,15 minuets ago . All of you people who speak like this talk like this game is your profession and if that's the case and CCP is not on your paystub then you have " NO creditability " .... NONE !!! It's a game just like GOLF or CHESS. and therefore one of many hobbies for many. And people get passionate about their hobbies. It's actually not hard to understand why gamers get passionate about it. And nothing wrong about being confident. I was QB in HS. Then went into the marines. A hundred odd jobs later, I'm a super attendant in a building. I would say I'm confident. cocky Shut up. cocky and arrogance are different. better in being the first then the latter.
Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui KOBAYASHI MARU PROJECT 218	Posted - 2013.12.16 15:19:00 - [40] - Quote Freshticles wrote: The hypocrisy is claiming militia tanks should be as effective as standard tanks, which is an absurd point. He claims we try and cry to give ourselves an advantage when he is defending his own agenda. Our views aren't hypocrisy, because we're not using an inferior version of the HAV. People that don't have -15m skill points into the role and paying a fraction of the price should not be as effective as those that are. Edit: Also I haven't had a need to complain about AV yet. If I meet a swarm user in my armour tank, fair enough. If my hardness are down fair play, I'm fairly vulnerable. If my hardness are up, he shouldn't have attacked me, just waited. The key to playing AV is finding the window of opportunity. I respect those who can do that. Your views are one of hypocrisy seeing as how if you check the specks , the militia vehicles and mods are at an disadvantage and now that's not enough for you , you would like MORE of an advantage because you can't stand competition . They cost less so that's not fair . Their competing and that's not fair . It seems like your saying , " I would rater fight AV because they are not in militia tanks and while they are on foot with their useless and inferior weapons , they don't pose any threat and they are an easy target so that makes THAT fair ." " It's not fair when someone with " NO SKILL " can compete with me and I have skill points placed into a particular role ." Again another example of Dust's elitist attitude . " BANE " of ALL vehicle users , Crush , Kill and Destroy ALL vehicles !!!!!

Thumb Green Novashift 577	Posted - 2013.12.16 15:50:00 - [41] - Quote burning powers wrote: Tankers we are not proud of you Yeah, it's gotten to the point where I hate even having them on my team (the dipshit from the Rebellion TLC tank spam squad that rammed my dropship causing it to slam into & kill team members was the tipping point). I won't even try to kill enemy AV unless they shoot at me first because of his crap. Never mind the president, let's overgrow the government.
Awesome Pantaloons Tech Guard RISE of LEGION 174	Posted - 2013.12.16 16:54:00 - [42] - Quote Honestly, I think the main problem is that we don't have a lot of "Tankers". We have players who drive militia tanks, lots of them, and very few true tankers. If we had at least one tanker per every 5 fools with militia tanks, the tank swarm would die down. The blues have tanks, but they don't work together. When I see a bunch of red tanks, I bring out my rail gun and take them out. Any good tanker can pwn a group of militia tanks as long as they aren't roaming together as a squad. "The Wrath of God is Immense. His Justice is Swift and Decisive. His Tolerance is Limited." -The Code of Demeanor
Freshticles DIOS EX. General Tso's Alliance 333	Posted - 2013.12.19 19:33:00 - [43] - Quote Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui wrote: Freshticles wrote: The hypocrisy is claiming militia tanks should be as effective as standard tanks, which is an absurd point. He claims we try and cry to give ourselves an advantage when he is defending his own agenda. Our views aren't hypocrisy, because we're not using an inferior version of the HAV. People that don't have -15m skill points into the role and paying a fraction of the price should not be as effective as those that are. Edit: Also I haven't had a need to complain about AV yet. If I meet a swarm user in my armour tank, fair enough. If my hardness are down fair play, I'm fairly vulnerable. If my hardness are up, he shouldn't have attacked me, just waited. The key to playing AV is finding the window of opportunity. I respect those who can do that. Your views are one of hypocrisy seeing as how if you check the specks , the militia vehicles and mods are at an disadvantage and now that's not enough for you , you would like MORE of an advantage because you can't stand competition . They cost less so that's not fair . Their competing and that's not fair . It seems like your saying , " I would rater fight AV because they are not in militia tanks and while they are on foot with their useless and inferior weapons , they don't pose any threat and they are an easy target so that makes THAT fair ." " It's not fair when someone with " NO SKILL " can compete with me and I have skill points placed into a particular role ." Again another example of Dust's elitist attitude . You can bring the same old argument up again and I'll give you the same answer. Militia drop suits vs Higher tier, skilled up suits. Militia hardly ever outmatches proto suits, by design. Keep in mind bringing ad hominem is not the same as calling it as it is, and your tone in the discussion is making you look like a twat. Level 9001 Forum Wizard
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 9174	Posted - 2013.12.19 19:37:00 - [44] - Quote 0 SP investment and < 100K ISK requires millions of SP and > 100K ISK to counter Because balance Vids / O7
Eurydice Itzhak State Patriots Templis De Novo 263	Posted - 2013.12.19 20:01:00 - [45] - Quote burning powers wrote: Tanks are being a constant problem and will kill Dust if they are continuing to litter the battlefield. now days we only see 5 tanks roaming the maps from the enemy or allied forces. This has what the game has become.. Only the tank survives now. MLT tanks are a constant problem* fixed it for you.
Skihids Bullet Cluster Legacy Rising 2587	Posted - 2013.12.19 20:44:00 - [46] - Quote We've got a lot of tanks on the field because it's finally possible to play with them without having saved 10M SP first. It used to be so expensive that it was ISK suicide to run anything but a very well fit HAV, and that meant committing a boatload of SP to vehicles. That naturally limited the number fielded. Those few drivers tended to be very good because they had a lot of SP and a lot of ISK at stake. There were issues with that however. it was quite difficult to get a start in tanking and you needed a day job or rich uncle to fund your driving. it made HAV ownership a luxury indulged in by a small number of players. CCP wanted to change that, and had to alter a couple things to make it happen. First, they reduced the initial SP requirement by making MLT tanks competitive with STD, but for shorter periods of time. That follows the "Waves of opportunity" general philosophy for vehicles. It wouldn't do to allow a STD tank to survive an ambush and kill the MLT tank every time because that wouldn't give the tanking experience to the driver. Second, they had to reduce the ISK cost. It's not free, but a new driver can actually afford to practice without running infantry for five matches for each tank. That allows for more driving which increases skill retention dramatically over driving one match out of six. Now that has raised a few issues too. The old guard tankers are miffed that these upstarts can kill their tanks with cheap tanks. That's akin to the outcry we hear about MLT suits killing PRO suits. Folks are adjusting to that now, but some still rage. More problematic is the fact that the DUST population is still feeling its way in dealing with these tanks. Infantry was used to extremely powerful AV that significantly reduced the vehicle population even further than the limited number of drivers. That meant most players had very limited interaction with tanks. The large population of drivers is overwhelming their meager ability to deal with the threat. So what to do about it? Do we go back to the past by inflating the price of MLT tanks? Do we require large SP investments before they are viable? That's just moving backwards and discarding all progress to date. It's giving up and declaring there is no way infantry can deal with a more accessible tanking role. I say we need a bit more time for infantry to learn to deal with the new influx of tanks. Based on many posts I see that some have figured out how to pop them with relatively inexpensive methods. Folks need to learn how to deal with the "waves of opportunity" philosophy so they aren't attacking into the tank's strength, but rather exploiting its weakness. CCP needs to introduce more varied counter play so it's not just infantry DPS against tank DPS. That's flat and boring. Let's have creative ways to deal with them and people can actually have fun with it. Finally CCP needs to deal with the more general issue of redline abuse. Any rail tank, MLT or STD, can sit back and snipe the entire map. This is not unique to MLT tanks or even tanks in general, redline infantry snipers are also a problem. It's an issue of risk vs. reward.


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