DUST Search - [Weapon Suggestion] Neutron Rifle

Ulysses Knapse wrote:

Kazu Fujiwara wrote:

*snip*

Such trouble over the name of a variant...
However, you admitted that CCP uses non-perfect terminology, therefore I don't need to follow CCP's standards.
iWin?

Kazu Fujiwara wrote:

Because single shot close range weapons are silly unless it's a shotgun. I look at this, and I see no reason to take it over a standard AR, or even a tactical AR. If it were the Gallente version of a sniper rifle, used for medium to long range? Ok, sure. I could see it. Effectively a bolt action sniper rifle, but trading range for a charge and more damage. If that were the case, then yes I'd take it. But right now it's basically a shotgun. But without the spread. Or the damage. Or the ability to follow up.

That's funny, I don't remember listing a damage, so how could you know what the damage is, exactly?

Also, I think we're getting close to the end of this argument. You see no reason to take it over the standard Assault Rifle? How interesting, because I see no reason to take any other weapons in the game over the Racial ARs. So basically, one could say it's on the same level as the rest of the weapons in the game. Isn't that a good thing? Pirate

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Ulysses Knapse duna corp 758	Posted - 2013.12.16 01:44:00 - [1] - Quote The Gallente Neutron Rifle is a single-shot, high-powered battle rifle developed by Duvolle Laboratories. It fires a precise, devastating bolt of plasma capable of tearing through heavy shields and armor. Despite its precision, it has relatively poor range and is designed mostly for short to mid-range confrontations. The Neutron Rifle also features an optional charge function, allowing you to increase the damage and range of a shot by charging it. Reloading takes 1.25 seconds, and charging it fully takes 2.50 seconds. The damage and range increase is directly proportional to the amount the weapon is charged. At 50% charge, the weapon's damage and range increase by 50%. At 100%, the weapon's damage and range increase by 100%. Without charging, the rifle's optimal/effective range is 35m/50m, but at full charge the rifle's optimal/effective range is 70m/100m. Charging increases alpha damage, but reduces DPS (except at long ranges, where charging increases DPS). Fully charging the rifle before firing results in a 33% loss in optimal DPS. Advantages over the Assault Rifles Increased alpha damage. Increased range when charged. Disadvantages over the Assault Rifles Decreased DPS Poor continuous fire capability. Reduced range when not charged. Breach Neutron Rifle A variant designed for close-quarters combat. It has 25% reduced range, but more accurate hipfire. 1% of charge increases damage by 1.5%, but range by only 0.5% (+150% and +50% at full charge, respectively, giving it 25% more damage and 43.75% reduced range compared to the Standard Neutron Rifle at full charge). Tactical Neutron Rifle A variant designed for long-range marksmanship. 25% reduced base damage, but comes with a scope. 1% of charge increases damage and range by 1.5% (effectively gives 25% more range and 6.25% reduced damage compared to the Standard Neutron Rifle at full charge). Burst Neutron Rifle A variant designed for short bursts of fire. Reloading takes 2.5 seconds and damage is reduced by 50%, but clip size is increased from 1 to 3. In addition to the increased damage and range, at +33% charge two shots (if in the clip) will fire at once, and at 100% charge all shots are fired at once. Unlike with the other variants, you'll have to deal with the kick (while zoomed it's mostly barrel climb, in hipfire it increases spread), though, which is fairly hefty. What's the difference between an immobile Minmatar ship and a pile of garbage? The pile of garbage looks nicer.
deepfried salad gilliam Sanguine Knights 298	Posted - 2013.12.16 01:57:00 - [2] - Quote Scr - overheat "May God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ give you grace and peace" - Second Corinthians chapter one verse two.
DeadlyAztec11 2787	Posted - 2013.12.16 01:59:00 - [3] - Quote I don't understand how it has poor range if it can get to 70-100m. Breach is long range not close range. And I am completely confounded by this line: "Fully charging the rifle before firing results in a 33% loss in optimal DPS." What is the point of charging if it is better to just spam the trigger? This sounds like a Scrambler Rifle with no over heat. My alts: GeneralJohnRipper, Draxus Prime, MoonEagle A, Long Evity, CCP Rarara And this is why I am the #1 forum warrior
Ulysses Knapse duna corp 758	Posted - 2013.12.16 02:04:00 - [4] - Quote DeadlyAztec11 wrote: I don't understand how it has poor range if it can get to 70-100m. 70 meter optimal range is pretty poor for a precision weapon. DeadlyAztec11 wrote: Breach is long range not close range. That's an unsubstantiated claim. DeadlyAztec11 wrote: And I am completely confounded by this line: "Fully charging the rifle before firing results in a 33% loss in optimal DPS." What is the point of charging if it is better to just spam the trigger? 1. You can't spam the trigger. The weapon can only load one round at once. 2. Higher alpha damage and range, clearly. Maybe I should have made it clearer that you have to reload every shot. Edit: There, is that better? You would have been fine if you read the whole thing in detail. What's the difference between an immobile Minmatar ship and a pile of garbage? The pile of garbage looks nicer.
Samael Artico Company of Marcher Lords Amarr Empire 25	Posted - 2013.12.16 02:11:00 - [5] - Quote deepfried salad gilliam wrote: Scr - overheat Someone here is terrible at reading forum posts... The weapon is far more similar to a close-range Sniper Rifle than to a semi-automatic Assault Rifle.
Negris Albedo Nuevo Atlas Corporation 39	Posted - 2013.12.16 02:28:00 - [6] - Quote No, Caldari should be battle rifles before the Gallente do. It's just a fact of life.
Kazu Fujiwara Rinas' Raiders 17	Posted - 2013.12.16 02:30:00 - [7] - Quote Ulysses Knapse wrote: DeadlyAztec11 wrote: Breach is long range not close range. That's an unsubstantiated claim. ... what. The Breach Assault Rifle is the Gallente's version of the Rail Rifle. Which is medium to long range. So yes, Breach is for longer ranges. People ask me, "Why do you fight?" I reply. "Why do you not?" Beta Warrior, Heavy User, Rinas' Heavy Support Dude
Ulysses Knapse duna corp 760	Posted - 2013.12.16 02:35:00 - [8] - Quote Kazu Fujiwara wrote: Ulysses Knapse wrote: DeadlyAztec11 wrote: Breach is long range not close range. That's an unsubstantiated claim. ... what. The Breach Assault Rifle is the Gallente's version of the Rail Rifle. Which is medium to long range. So yes, Breach is for longer ranges. Then why does the Assault Rail Rifle have equal range to (Breach) Rail Rifles of the same tier? And why do Breach Rifles in general have low hipfire spread? Also, what do you think "Breach" means? And goddamnit, why are we talking about Assault Rifles and not my suggestion?! Also, take a look at these ranges. What's the difference between an immobile Minmatar ship and a pile of garbage? The pile of garbage looks nicer.
Kazu Fujiwara Rinas' Raiders 17	Posted - 2013.12.16 02:47:00 - [9] - Quote Ulysses Knapse wrote: Then why does the Assault Rail Rifle have equal range to (Breach) Rail Rifles of the same tier? ... because it's a rail rifle? You've effectively taking a sniper rifle and slapped a full auto mode on it, given it a bigger clip, and replaced the scope. Ulysses Knapse wrote: And why do Breach Rifles in general have low hipfire spread? Low RoF = Low CoF bloom. Ulysses Knapse wrote: Also, what do you think "Breach" means? To me? Breach means "Make a big-ass hole in something." Like a breaching charge. Breach is high damage, low RoF, long range. The low CoF bloom is due to that low RoF. As for your weapon - a single shot rifle designed for close range? wut. Why? Why is that a good idea? I'm fine with giving the Gallente a weapon similar to the CR (which they already have in the Tactical AR), but you'd be better modeling it around something like Halo's DMR or Battlerifle - which would fit Minmatar more, and the Amarr already have in the form of the Scrambler Rifle. People ask me, "Why do you fight?" I reply. "Why do you not?" Beta Warrior, Heavy User, Rinas' Heavy Support Dude
Ulysses Knapse duna corp 760	Posted - 2013.12.16 03:02:00 - [10] - Quote Kazu Fujiwara wrote: because it's a rail rifle? That's not a very good argument for the ranges being the same. Furthermore, did you click that link? Breach GAR has the same range as Standard GAR. Kazu Fujiwara wrote: Low RoF = Low CoF bloom. Also a bad argument. Why does it have lower Rate of Fire, and why not increase recoil per shot to compensate? Kazu Fujiwara wrote: To me? Breach means "Make a big-ass hole in something." Like a breaching charge. You're an idiot. In combat terminology, breaching is the act of breaking through enemy defenses, like in a sting operation. Why would you need to have long range if you're breaching an enemy complex? Trick question, you don't. What you do need is the ability to neutralize enemies at close ranges. Kazu Fujiwara wrote: As for your weapon - a single shot rifle designed for close range? wut. Why? Why is that a good idea? Why is it a bad idea? Also, not close range, close- to-medium range. Big difference there. What's the difference between an immobile Minmatar ship and a pile of garbage? The pile of garbage looks nicer.

Kazu Fujiwara Rinas' Raiders 17	Posted - 2013.12.16 03:20:00 - [11] - Quote Ulysses Knapse wrote: That's not a very good argument for the ranges being the same. Furthermore, did you click that link? Breach GAR has the same range as Standard GAR. Yes, because they're the same weapon? All you've done is trade RoF for Damage. It's meant to be used at ranges longer than the standard version, and because of the reduced kick and RoF, you can keep your shots on target better. If you want a LONG long range version, you use the Tactical. It's not supposed to be a sniper version, just something you use when you're in an open field or something similar. Increased damage per shot means more damage over range, and the reduced RoF means reduced kick, which means more shots on target. Ulysses Knapse wrote: Also a bad argument. Why does it have lower Rate of Fire, and why not increase recoil per shot to compensate? Lower rate of fire is, again, to give it better usage at medium range. It's currently a moot point with how accurate the regular AR is, but if the RoF is lower then you can land more shots on target at medium range compared to a standard AR. You don't increase the recoil because you're sacrificing close range combat ability in lieu of better accuracy and damage over range. Ulysses Knapse wrote: You're an idiot. In combat terminology, breaching is the act of breaking through enemy defenses, like in a sting operation. Why would you need to have long range if you're breaching an enemy complex? Trick question, you don't. What you do need is the ability to neutralize enemies at close ranges. Okay; 1: I didn't call you names. So don't start with that. It doesn't help your argument in the slightest, and makes you look like an ass. 2: I'm aware of the combat terminology. You asked me what I thought it was, and I hardly think the Devs will have been been thinking of what the word means in a military sense while designing it. 3: Enemy Complex does not always = Enemy defenses. Yes, the Breach AR can still be used in close ranges - not as well as the regular AR - but it trades that ability for extended ability at range. You dent someone in the face with a standard AR from 50 - 60m, they're going to go "Ow" and hide. You hit someone with a Breach version and you may very well put them down before they can react, then go into CQC with it. You won't be as effective as people with standard ARs, but that's why you have teammates - you support the outdoor push, they support the indoor push. Ulysses Knapse wrote: Why is it a bad idea? Also, not close range, close- to-medium range. Big difference there. Because single shot close range weapons are silly unless it's a shotgun. I look at this, and I see no reason to take it over a standard AR, or even a tactical AR. If it were the Gallente version of a sniper rifle, used for medium to long range? Ok, sure. I could see it. Effectively a bolt action sniper rifle, but trading range for a charge and more damage. If that were the case, then yes I'd take it. But right now it's basically a shotgun. But without the spread. Or the damage. Or the ability to follow up. People ask me, "Why do you fight?" I reply. "Why do you not?" Beta Warrior, Heavy User, Rinas' Heavy Support Dude
Ulysses Knapse duna corp 761	Posted - 2013.12.16 03:30:00 - [12] - Quote Kazu Fujiwara wrote: snip Such trouble over the name of a variant... However, you admitted that CCP uses non-perfect terminology, therefore I don't need to follow CCP's standards. iWin? Kazu Fujiwara wrote: Because single shot close range weapons are silly unless it's a shotgun. I look at this, and I see no reason to take it over a standard AR, or even a tactical AR. If it were the Gallente version of a sniper rifle, used for medium to long range? Ok, sure. I could see it. Effectively a bolt action sniper rifle, but trading range for a charge and more damage. If that were the case, then yes I'd take it. But right now it's basically a shotgun. But without the spread. Or the damage. Or the ability to follow up. That's funny, I don't remember listing the damage, so how could you know what the damage is, exactly? Also, I think we're getting close to the end of this argument. You see no reason to take it over the standard Assault Rifle? How interesting, because I see no reason to take any other weapons in the game over the Racial ARs. So basically, one could say it's on the same level as the rest of the weapons in the game. Isn't that a good thing? What's the difference between an immobile Minmatar ship and a pile of garbage? The pile of garbage looks nicer.
Kazu Fujiwara Rinas' Raiders 17	Posted - 2013.12.16 03:39:00 - [13] - Quote Ulysses Knapse wrote: Kazu Fujiwara wrote: snip Such trouble over the name of a variant... However, you admitted that CCP uses non-perfect terminology, therefore I don't need to follow CCP's standards. iWin? Kazu Fujiwara wrote: Because single shot close range weapons are silly unless it's a shotgun. I look at this, and I see no reason to take it over a standard AR, or even a tactical AR. If it were the Gallente version of a sniper rifle, used for medium to long range? Ok, sure. I could see it. Effectively a bolt action sniper rifle, but trading range for a charge and more damage. If that were the case, then yes I'd take it. But right now it's basically a shotgun. But without the spread. Or the damage. Or the ability to follow up. That's funny, I don't remember listing a damage, so how could you know what the damage is, exactly? Also, I think we're getting close to the end of this argument. You see no reason to take it over the standard Assault Rifle? How interesting, because I see no reason to take any other weapons in the game over the Racial ARs. So basically, one could say it's on the same level as the rest of the weapons in the game. Isn't that a good thing? I never use the Gallente AR these days, I use a Rail Rifle. But that's not the point, the point is that this weapons is attempting to fill a hole in the Gallente aresenal that doesn't exist. Turn it into a longer range weapon, and it might not seem like a useless addition. Also, you never did put down the damage. However the shotgun's strength lies in it's ability to quickly follow up or react to close range targets. With this weapon, you would need to be the aggressor at all times, and never let your foes take advantage, which in close range is impossible. You will get surprised. You will get ambushed. You will need to react quickly. Having a single shot, non-spread weapon means reacting is incredibly difficult, alongside with having to figure out if you have to charge the weapon, and then how much, because if you miss, or hit with the wrong charge level? Pop goes you. With a shotgun it's just "Oh ***, shoot it". Less time figuring out what you need to do with your weapon trying to kill someone, more time figuring out how you're going to not die. People ask me, "Why do you fight?" I reply. "Why do you not?"* Beta Warrior, Heavy User, Rinas' Heavy Support Dude
deepfried salad gilliam Sanguine Knights 302	Posted - 2013.12.16 03:42:00 - [14] - Quote Close range single shot Either 1hko and is op Or 2hko and is up I don't see this working out "May God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ give you grace and peace" - Second Corinthians chapter one verse two.
Ulysses Knapse duna corp 761	Posted - 2013.12.16 03:49:00 - [15] - Quote Kazu Fujiwara wrote: the point is that this weapons is attempting to fill a hole in the Gallente arsenal that doesn't exist. Turn it into a longer range weapon, and it might not seem like a useless addition. It already has better range than the standard and advanced Rail Rifles when fully charged, and only slightly lower range than the prototype Rail Rifle. That's a fair bit of range for a Gallente weapon, also keep in mind that I came up with those ranges for the standard tier in mind, and the Tactical Neutron Rifle has better range than even prototype Rail Rifles when fully charged. Plus, the the only Gallente weapons with decent alpha are the Shotgun (only good at close range) and the Plasma Cannon (a completely different kind of weapon). deepfried salad gilliam wrote: Close range single shot Either 1hko and is op Or 2hko and is up I don't see this working out Reload time is only 1.5 seconds. Also, you can use it to weaken your enemy before switching to your sidearm. What's the difference between an immobile Minmatar ship and a pile of garbage? The pile of garbage looks nicer.
Terry Webber Turalyon 514 Turalyon Alliance 364	Posted - 2013.12.16 04:56:00 - [16] - Quote Samael Artico wrote: deepfried salad gilliam wrote: Scr - overheat Someone here is terrible at reading forum posts... The weapon is far more similar to a close-range Sniper Rifle than to a semi-automatic Assault Rifle. I agree. It should have longer range but not as much as the Caldari Sniper Rifle to maintain variety. Join Turalyon 514! Click here for more details.


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