DUST Search - Consider this CCP : A decent proposal .

Malkai Inos wrote:

Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui wrote:

And you just don't see how this will end that ??? This is not a respec it's more like a retooling and it's an option where once it's taken , that's the one for the year and can only effect the main character . I just can't understand the logic behind people who try to help the game and the system ( the argument between AV v.s. HAV's ) and come up with solutions to problems where everyone can gain something ( by choice ) ... is always fought with massive resistance .

No i don't. In fact, based on the previous occurences of respecs i'm quite positive that it won't. I understand the scope of your suggestion. An option to change your race has been confirmed to be on CCPs TBA long time ago and name changes are out of question for obvious reasons. The only thing that could be discussed, and that you seem to focus on, is the respec part. One respec/retooling (call it as you please) a year will be of no value for the vast majority of players since this majority will not stick around for a full 12 months and thus never make use of your proposed mechanic to begin with.

Neither will it reduce the amount of people asking for more, or solve any of the underlying issues that led to the demand in the first place. It can't since it's missing and ignoring the mechanics that make people want a respec feature. A mandatory respec after graduating out of the academy is much easer, less controversial and does a better job at helping players a little without making way for too much abuse.
[quote=Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui]
Have you ever seen a thread where someone ( new or otherwise ) has said that they have placed their skill points into a skill that doesn't help ( now that can be said and has been said about swarm launchers ) so they would like to place them in a position that would ACTUALLY help them ??? This would solve that problem and I just knew and said it in my post that people will " dummy " this ideal down because there are SOOOOOO many narrow minded people who play this game and if something doesn't give them an advantage then they just QQ about it and CCP nerf's or buff's it which kills the item all together , case in point with tanks as they stand now .

I won't.

It has been explained several times why regular respecs are mostly going to hurt new players and benefit Veterans almost exlusively.

It has been explained that the challenges new players face can, and should, be fixed directly instead of adding a mechanic that does nothing worthwhile for newer players whatsoever and dilutes one of the games' core mechanics to their disadvantage.

No, i will not dig through this wall of unsubstantiated assertions, ignore the forest of strawmen and implicit ad hominem remarks and write several, long posts that could aswell be copypasted from my previous discussions just so that this thread can be dead and forgotten in a day or two at most just like all the others before it.

Use the search function. Get an overview of the issues, get an overview of the proposed solutions and their respective pros and cons.

Then when your idea is not a concoction talking points that have been made, refuted, made again, got lost in personal attacks, restated and debunked yet again but a thought out concept that has your name on it and your work in it so we can skip through the "evil vet" conspiracy bullshit and get a reasonable, produtive argument, come back.

Until then, there should be another respec thread around somewhere by the time i finished this post.


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Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui KOBAYASHI MARU PROJECT 214	Posted - 2013.12.15 23:03:00 - [1] - Quote A lot of people have ALT's and have made them for numerous reasons . I have a proposal to have a system that can be implemented to stop the constant asking for a Respec and even some of the bitterness from players who have felt that they have their skill points locked up in area's that they feel provide NO help to their overall game and character . Why not implement a system where one can " recycle " their character ( if they choose but it's an option ) , at least once a year where , that player would go back to the choice screen that's at the beginning , so they can change their character race ( some would like a change to a race that better suits their individual playing style because some have just chosen a player because of a particular weapon that they use or bonuses that comes with using certain gear ) , change their name ( if they choose so but it's not even a issue for this instance but could be a choice even so ) , keep their current skill point total but can redistribute the skill points in a fashion that would lead to that players overall productivity . You can call this a respec for those who choose to dummy this ideal down but it actually is a chance to " reconstruct " ( which could be a good name too " Player Reconstruction " ) their current player and shape them into the character of their choosing . People learn a lot while playing , some items and gear that they have really don't serve their cause anymore , personal player strategies change and this could be a way to keep the community happy and also could help to retain " new player " numbers , in helping them to know that , yes they have made mistakes in the past but that was mostly from not being informed and having experience and now that they have become somewhat stable and established they can fix what seemed to be a problem . Having the ability to do this once a year would keep this system from being taken advantage of and would lead to players being more " mindful " of their choices and given the current state of affairs , where things can change in an instant and a player has to adapt to said changes , this tool could become helpful in that instance . It could be like the " Biomass " where your player is locked for ten hours ( which ANYONE in their right mind , would NOT have a problem in thinking about the advantages that will come afterwards ) and after that process , said character is then " reconstructed " and the player begins again at the beginning ... but this time they have the skill points from the work that they have toiled to place into that " recycled " player . This would help a lot a be a welcome to the community and also stop the constant asking for respec's . It could also make this game MORE INTERESTING for newer players as well as the current community . Seeing as how this is a BIG reason why a lot of people make ALT's . Please people don't make this an issue about ALT's because if you look and think about this ... YOU KNOW IT WOULD BE HELPFUL and by a large margin . Seeing as how when you make an ALT you actually START OVER from scratch , this way would be way more beneficial and would be a true rebirth ... also would STOP all the asking for respec's . Thank you CCP and I hope that you consider this proposal . " BANE " of ALL vehicle users , Crush , Kill and Destroy ALL vehicles !!!!!
Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui KOBAYASHI MARU PROJECT 214	Posted - 2013.12.16 01:17:00 - [2] - Quote Delanus Turgias wrote: How does one determine which account is the "alt"? You're full of **, you just want free respecs while making it seem like it isn't gamebreaking. First of all it's a choice and by choice . It will not effect your ALT just your main account . I don't have to want a respec , seeing as how I have gotten millions back from vehicles and we will get one when all of the race based gear comes out so WE ALL will get one then anyway . The $H!T you think I'm full of ... I'll just hold your mouth open and pour it down your throat you disrespectful sack of $&!T . " BANE** " of ALL vehicle users , Crush , Kill and Destroy ALL vehicles !!!!!
Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui KOBAYASHI MARU PROJECT 214	Posted - 2013.12.16 01:18:00 - [3] - Quote Sarducar Kahn wrote: It's a free yearly respec, plus name changing which CCP doesn't like. It's never happening. How many do you get in a year anyway thinking about how many and all the changes that has occurred ???? It happens already and just partially did a few weeks ago . " BANE " of ALL vehicle users , Crush , Kill and Destroy ALL vehicles !!!!!
Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui KOBAYASHI MARU PROJECT 214	Posted - 2013.12.16 01:24:00 - [4] - Quote BrownEye1129 wrote: Stopped reading after you mentioned a race influences the suit bonues. How long have you been playing ???? Let's take the Caldari Assault for instance , where you get 2 percent per level on the recharge rate and 5 percent on the shield extender's efficacy . So that's not a race base suit bonus ????? " BANE " of ALL vehicle users , Crush , Kill and Destroy ALL vehicles !!!!!
Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui KOBAYASHI MARU PROJECT 214	Posted - 2013.12.16 01:33:00 - [5] - Quote Aikuchi Tomaru wrote: How about no? The frustration with respeccing would be gone if people would finally notice that there is no such thing in the Eve Universe. People on Eve Online don't complain either. Why do people who play Dust have to make such a big deal out of there not being a respec possibility? Every year this happens . I'm just making it an actual system where that fact is curbed and taking the excuse to complain away and helping those who are new and considers " mistakes " made fixable so they won't quit as well as a mechanism that will keep them interested in the actual game . How many people make ALT'S to escape the " mistakes " that they have made with their main or because they want to change their playing style , having to many useless items and gear as well . This system eliminates all of that and helps clear the clutter of creating another ALT as an escape and the backlog of useless gear and items in a person's inventory . All of you who are against it saying that someone just wan't a respec , this is by choice ... you DON'T have to choose it if you choose not to but this WILL help those who choose to . Newer players who by lack of knowledge placing their skill points into unwanted and unproductive places would love this and jump at a chance to make their characters more to their liking . YOU don't want to do it then DON'T ... it's YOUR choice but it's nice to have that option . " BANE " of ALL vehicle users , Crush , Kill and Destroy ALL vehicles !!!!!
Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui KOBAYASHI MARU PROJECT 214	Posted - 2013.12.16 01:36:00 - [6] - Quote Malkai Inos wrote: Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui wrote: Sarducar Kahn wrote: It's a free yearly respec, plus name changing which CCP doesn't like. It's never happening. How many do you get in a year anyway thinking about how many and all the changes that has occurred ???? It happens already and just partially did a few weeks ago . The fact that some specific circumstances leave no other choice than a respec every now and then does not mean that therefore "f**k it. Yearly, unconditional respecs for everybody" is the best approach. Also this is like the fourth thread on this subject that is essentially a variation of "people learn" and/or "balance is not the player's fault" in an hour or so. Can we please chose one (just one) thread to properly discuss this or will I have to read the most basic of popular "respec plx" gambits every few minutes until the end of times? Seriously, there is noway* we're getting anything done in terms of a consensus with that kind of constant fragmentation across, by now, hundreds of threads. Check the time this was written . I don't know ANYTHING about those other post and my internet JUST came back on from being out . " BANE " of ALL vehicle users , Crush , Kill and Destroy ALL vehicles !!!!!
Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui KOBAYASHI MARU PROJECT 214	Posted - 2013.12.16 01:40:00 - [7] - Quote Jillian Chastot wrote: It might be nice to have the option. But the thing is CCP likes the idea of persitence so it's not something that appeals to them. And its their game so you my good friend are SoL. Good day. This is just a thought so it won't make or break me anyway it goes . I am not like most of these people who go stomping off like a little child or have to dump on everyone's ideals . Just a thought . " BANE " of ALL vehicle users , Crush , Kill and Destroy ALL vehicles !!!!!
Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui KOBAYASHI MARU PROJECT 216	Posted - 2013.12.16 02:30:00 - [8] - Quote Malkai Inos wrote: Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui wrote: Check the time this was written . I don't know ANYTHING about those other post and my internet JUST came back on from being out. I'll grant you the benefit of the doubt when you say that you legitimitely haven't seen the other threads and respond more thoroughly to your suggestion. Your hope that a yearly respec (plus character change/rename) will end this debate is fallacious. I've been around for three respecs now and the only thing that every respec achieved with a striking consistency (apart from worsening game balance) is a wave of new threads asking for the next respec. The perceived need and untility of respecs is normal and everyone will have some situation in which they deem a respec justified/necessary/helpfull for their personal enjoyment or the overall health of the game. The idea of respeccing has invaded almost every genre that has some form of progression system so the workings and benefits of a New Eden style skill system are just unintuitive and seemingly punishing for new players who are not used to it. Regardless of whether this perception is accurate (I have reason to believe it's not) there's nothing that will "end" this "debate" (read: regular threads asking the same question and providing the same arguments) until everyone in "need" for a respec can have one the very instant they feel the need for one. Preferably free... And you just don't see how this will end that ??? This is not a respec it's more like a retooling and it's an option where once it's taken , that's the one for the year and can only effect the main character . I just can't understand the logic behind people who try to help the game and the system ( the argument between AV v.s. HAV's ) and come up with solutions to problems where everyone can gain something ( by choice ) ... is always fought with massive resistance . Have you ever seen a thread where someone ( new or otherwise ) has said that they have placed their skill points into a skill that doesn't help ( now that can be said and has been said about swarm launchers ) so they would like to place them in a position that would ACTUALLY help them ??? This would solve that problem and I just knew and said it in my post that people will " dummy " this ideal down because there are SOOOOOO many narrow minded people who play this game and if something doesn't give them an advantage then they just QQ about it and CCP nerf's or buff's it which kills the item all together , case in point with tanks as they stand now . This game is not fun , it's opportunistic and those who have the opportunity to take advantage of those who are in lesser roles will and want to do any and everything to keep that advantage . Isn't that the argument with PROTOSTOMPING as well ??? This is a mechanism that can give an individual a chance to even the playing field and since they have become wiser from experience would help them place their skill points in a position that will help . This is for everyone and I'm sure THIS would not be a reason for arguments seeing as how EVERYONE can experience this and NO ONE is excluded . That's too much like right and all you people understand is wrong and being opportunistic so you can keep your foot on the throats of those beneath you . Hate anything that EVEN's the playing field and that's CLEAR and PLAIN to see . " BANE " of ALL vehicle users , Crush , Kill and Destroy ALL vehicles !!!!!
Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui KOBAYASHI MARU PROJECT 216	Posted - 2013.12.16 04:54:00 - [9] - Quote Malkai Inos wrote: Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui wrote: And you just don't see how this will end that ??? This is not a respec it's more like a retooling and it's an option where once it's taken , that's the one for the year and can only effect the main character . I just can't understand the logic behind people who try to help the game and the system ( the argument between AV v.s. HAV's ) and come up with solutions to problems where everyone can gain something ( by choice ) ... is always fought with massive resistance . No i don't. In fact, based on the previous occurences of respecs i'm quite positive that it won't. I understand the scope of your suggestion. An option to change your race has been confirmed to be on CCPs TBA long time ago and name changes are out of question for obvious reasons. The only thing that could be discussed, and that you seem to focus on, is the respec part. One respec/retooling (call it as you please) a year will be of no value for the vast majority of players since this majority will not stick around for a full 12 months and thus never make use of your proposed mechanic to begin with. Neither will it reduce the amount of people asking for more, or solve any of the underlying issues that led to the demand in the first place. It can't since it's missing and ignoring the mechanics that make people want a respec feature. A mandatory respec after graduating out of the academy is much easer, less controversial and does a better job at helping players a little without making way for too much abuse. [quote=Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui] Have you ever seen a thread where someone ( new or otherwise ) has said that they have placed their skill points into a skill that doesn't help ( now that can be said and has been said about swarm launchers ) so they would like to place them in a position that would ACTUALLY help them ??? This would solve that problem and I just knew and said it in my post that people will " dummy " this ideal down because there are SOOOOOO many narrow minded people who play this game and if something doesn't give them an advantage then they just QQ about it and CCP nerf's or buff's it which kills the item all together , case in point with tanks as they stand now . I won't. It has been explained several times why regular respecs are mostly going to hurt new players and benefit Veterans almost exlusively. It has been explained that the challenges new players face can, and should, be fixed directly instead of adding a mechanic that does nothing worthwhile for newer players whatsoever and dilutes one of the games' core mechanics to their disadvantage. No, i will not dig through this wall of unsubstantiated assertions, ignore the forest of strawmen and implicit ad hominem remarks and write several, long posts that could aswell be copypasted from my previous discussions just so that this thread can be dead and forgotten in a day or two at most just like all the others before it. Use the search function. Get an overview of the issues, get an overview of the proposed solutions and their respective pros and cons. Then when your idea is not a concoction talking points that have been made, refuted, made again, got lost in personal attacks, restated and debunked yet again but a thought out concept that has your name on it and your work in it so we can skip through the "evil vet" conspiracy bullshit and get a reasonable, produtive argument, come back. Until then, there should be another respec thread around somewhere by the time i finished this post. You are very smug and narrow minded even though you seem to believe yourself to be an intellectual titan . Use whatever puns you like and if this topic keeps coming up by different people then the subject should be debated about . I don't need to look up previous threads to check on anything . This is my ideal and had no previous knowledge of others attempt and if they have a respec out of the academy , how would that help and it's still the same concept and like I have stated , now you are excluding the majority and giving a section of the community access to something that again leads to advantages , even though they are newer players , it is still an advantage because it excluded the majority . Like most in this community YOU really do not care about the status of the game . You care about the imbalance and placing YOURSELF upon a pedestal but you know what ...???? YOUR TIME IS COMMING ... AS WELL AS THE REST of those who are crushing the sprit of this game . Stay in your tiny little bubble and stroke your big ego because like I said , change is coming and it's well known that the masses of this community doesn't care for change but you won't have any say or a choice and it will be sooner than all of you think . " BANE " of ALL vehicle users , Crush , Kill and Destroy ALL vehicles !!!!!