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Vell0cet
SVER True Blood
Public Disorder.
715
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Posted - 2013.12.15 22:46:00 -
[1] - Quote
We desperately need vehicle capacitors in DUST. Modules like the active hardeners would have short cycle times that would cycle continuously unless turned off, or run until they burn through all cap (in roughly the same amount of time--maybe a bit less for militia vehicles). Other modules like scanners could be run continuously and still be cap stable, reducing a bit of the micro-management for some modules. This would mean that players with high SP in vehicles and good capacitor skills can run more modules than people with 0 SP. It also means you can't run everything simultaneously without hearing "the capacitor is empty" message soon thereafter. It won't force long cooldowns where you runaway and hide doing nothing while waiting on long timers, but is still consistent with the "waves of opportunity" vehicle combat philosophy. They reward smart and skillful players giving them more control and flexibility in a fight. They would help set DUST apart from other competitors for being the only FPS with truly rich and deep vehicle gameplay.
This would also create new opportunities for balance as energy neuts and nosferatu modules could be used by skilled AV teams to help cripple vehicles by reducing their cap. I could see a small neut/NOS turret as one option, as well as an Amarrian neut grenade as another. Stasis webifiers would be another ewar module that would help catch fleeing vehicles creating more risk/reward gameplay mechanics. I really don't see how vehicles and AV can be balanced going forward without capacitors and ewar.
These could be done relatively easily by repurposing the existing code being used for the stamina system.
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Harpyja
DUST University
Ivy League
917
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Posted - 2013.12.15 22:53:00 -
[2] - Quote
I've always supported and will continue supporting vehicle capacitors over cooldowns. It will also make vehicles more rewarding and more skillful as managing your capacitor is crucial to surviving.
But unfortunately, I doubt we will ever get capacitors. CCP had two chances already to do that and they didn't take them. The first was when they initially started developing Dust and the second was 1.7. I doubt they will go through a second major vehicle overhaul like 1.7 to change from cooldowns to capacitors.
"By His light, and His will"
- The Scriptures, Gheinok the First, 12:32
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Vell0cet
SVER True Blood
Public Disorder.
717
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Posted - 2013.12.15 23:27:00 -
[3] - Quote
Thanks for the reply. I have the same fears about CCP avoiding an additional rebalance around capacitors. Having said that, the existing rebalance is going to need a lot more work (and I question how it can even be accomplished without capacitors). 1.7 would have been the perfect time to add them, but 1.8 might be nearly as good as a fix to the mess we have currently. As mentioned, the coding required might not be that crazy if they can reuse existing stamina code (even as a temporary stop gap that gets refactored later).
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Vell0cet
SVER True Blood
Public Disorder.
717
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Posted - 2013.12.16 03:35:00 -
[4] - Quote
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Quick/Dirty Test Range Idea
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Vell0cet
SVER True Blood
Public Disorder.
726
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Posted - 2013.12.19 05:00:00 -
[5] - Quote
Back to the top.
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Skihids
Bullet Cluster
Legacy Rising
2586
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Posted - 2013.12.19 05:44:00 -
[6] - Quote
They have all the stamina code they need to implement capacitors. That's what they use for infantry.
For some reason CCP doesn't think we are capable of handling it. |
Takahiro Kashuken
Red Star.
EoN.
1986
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Posted - 2013.12.19 12:48:00 -
[7] - Quote
AV would be mad if i can permacycle at least 1 30% hardeners since that would allow me to whack on other goodies
I expected vehicles to always have capacitors, copy and paste from EVE and i hope one day we do
Intelligence is OP
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Mobius Wyvern
Guardian Solutions
DARKSTAR ARMY
4177
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Posted - 2013.12.19 13:11:00 -
[8] - Quote
Takahiro Kashuken wrote:AV would be mad if i can permacycle at least 1 30% hardeners since that would allow me to whack on other goodies
I expected vehicles to always have capacitors, copy and paste from EVE and i hope one day we do
What you mentioned above is part of why I and others have put up threads in support of cap draining equipment.
In my case, I liked the idea of an energy neutralizer grenade that would be the Amarr grenade type, since that's the EWAR they use in EVE.
I actually think the modules we have right now would work pretty well for capacitor implementation, and I hope that further iteration on game mechanics brings this at some point in the future.
Amidst the blue skies
A link from past to future
The sheltering wings of the protector
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Vell0cet
SVER True Blood
Public Disorder.
729
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Posted - 2013.12.19 15:20:00 -
[9] - Quote
Skihids wrote:For some reason CCP doesn't think we are capable of handling it.
I've heard people say this before, but never seen the actual dev post where they state this. In many ways capacitors are EASIER than the current system.
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Slag Emberforge
Immortal Retribution
330
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Posted - 2013.12.19 15:24:00 -
[10] - Quote
Vell0cet wrote:Skihids wrote:For some reason CCP doesn't think we are capable of handling it. I've heard people say this before, but never seen the actual dev post where they state this. In many ways capacitors are EASIER than the current system.
Also would allow for less of module abuse at high levels, it would be quite easy to balance power usage in a way that wouldn't allow. High sp tankers to be perma-hardened. |
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Takahiro Kashuken
Red Star.
EoN.
1986
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Posted - 2013.12.19 15:27:00 -
[11] - Quote
Mobius Wyvern wrote:Takahiro Kashuken wrote:AV would be mad if i can permacycle at least 1 30% hardeners since that would allow me to whack on other goodies
I expected vehicles to always have capacitors, copy and paste from EVE and i hope one day we do What you mentioned above is part of why I and others have put up threads in support of cap draining equipment. In my case, I liked the idea of an energy neutralizer grenade that would be the Amarr grenade type, since that's the EWAR they use in EVE. I actually think the modules we have right now would work pretty well for capacitor implementation, and I hope that further iteration on game mechanics brings this at some point in the future.
TBH with cap draining equipment i would expect them to be heavy on PG/CPU for it to be able to drain a decent amount of cap espc of of heavy vehicles so you have to make sacrifices on your suit
I wouldnt want it like the AV nade, auto seeking BS and bam 50% cap down
But i would also expect a proper fitted proto tank with pilot suit be able to deal with at least 1 nade espc if the pilot also has level 5 support cap skills
As a nade im not sure, mines im happier with
Intelligence is OP
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Vell0cet
SVER True Blood
Public Disorder.
729
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Posted - 2013.12.19 16:44:00 -
[12] - Quote
Takahiro Kashuken wrote:Mobius Wyvern wrote:Takahiro Kashuken wrote:AV would be mad if i can permacycle at least 1 30% hardeners since that would allow me to whack on other goodies
I expected vehicles to always have capacitors, copy and paste from EVE and i hope one day we do What you mentioned above is part of why I and others have put up threads in support of cap draining equipment. In my case, I liked the idea of an energy neutralizer grenade that would be the Amarr grenade type, since that's the EWAR they use in EVE. I actually think the modules we have right now would work pretty well for capacitor implementation, and I hope that further iteration on game mechanics brings this at some point in the future. TBH with cap draining equipment i would expect them to be heavy on PG/CPU for it to be able to drain a decent amount of cap espc of of heavy vehicles so you have to make sacrifices on your suit I wouldnt want it like the AV nade, auto seeking BS and bam 50% cap down But i would also expect a proper fitted proto tank with pilot suit be able to deal with at least 1 nade espc if the pilot also has level 5 support cap skills As a nade im not sure, mines im happier with
How many neut 'nades would be reasonable to neut a HAV (with both good and bad cap skills) from full to 0 in your opinion?
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Zene Ren
Bullet Cluster
Legacy Rising
10
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Posted - 2013.12.19 16:50:00 -
[13] - Quote
+1 for capacitors |
Vell0cet
SVER True Blood
Public Disorder.
733
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Posted - 2013.12.20 02:15:00 -
[14] - Quote
Any other thoughts on this?
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Roger Cordill
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar
DARKSTAR ARMY
291
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Posted - 2013.12.20 02:21:00 -
[15] - Quote
message from Godin: They would need to change back repairers and boosters for this to really work. having hardeners drain a lot of cap doesn't work, and has been proven to not work.. If so, yes, if not, no. |
Garth Mandra
The Southern Legion
The Umbra Combine
268
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Posted - 2013.12.20 02:48:00 -
[16] - Quote
Roger Cordill wrote:message from Godin: They would need to change back repairers and boosters for this to really work. having hardeners drain a lot of cap doesn't work, and has been proven to not work.. If so, yes, if not, no.
Citation needed. |
knight of 6
SVER True Blood
Public Disorder.
866
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Posted - 2013.12.20 03:00:00 -
[17] - Quote
despite my overwhelming erge to simply copy paste NO till I hit the character cap. I will explain my views.
the TTK is way too short for cap management. driving, aiming, firing none of these things need to be managed at all times in eve. however in dust they are. i have no time nor desire to pulse a rep in the middle of a tank duel.
"God favors the side with the best artillery" ~ Napoleon
Ko6, scout, tanker.
CLOSED BETA VET
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Azri Sarum
BurgezzE.T.F
Public Disorder.
220
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Posted - 2013.12.20 03:29:00 -
[18] - Quote
I REALLY do not get why they are trying to reinvent the wheel here. EVE has spent 10 years perfecting 'vehicle' combat and balance. You would think some of that could be re-used instead of nothing.
I personally agree with the posts above that capacitors would be an excellent addition to vehicles in DUST. It does not add complexity (instead of multiple cooldowns to manage you only have to manage a single capacitor pool) but it does add DEPTH. It would bring cap warefare to DUST, something that would be awesome.
They most likely did not add capacitors in 1.7 because it would take work from other teams (needs a hud) instead of just numbers being changed.
As to the idea about energy neutralizing grenades, that might be ok against LAV, but for HAV's i think we need something bigger. I'm thinking VOID bombs, from those bombers CCP said they were working on.
EVE - Victor Maximus
DUST - Azri Sarum
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