his dust514 is so much brighter than my dust 514....

Thats all well and good, but he really doesn't consider certain things!

First of all, what happens when both sides don't have tanks?
We shouldn't HAVE to use tanks to defend ourselves, ill admit its real cool to see 4 on 4 tank battles, its cool to be apart of them to, but when one side doesn't have tanks its incredibly unbaalanced!

You can't deny it, even the video shows it, anything less than Proto is useless against a vehicle, and even then they are only any use when the tanks aren't 'ON'. We need methods to catch vehicles out.

We need things like webifiers, temporal grenades, e-war that cause guns to overheat, or modules to enter cooldown faster! Tank v Tank battles are brilliant, but you can't balance Tanks of the provision that everyone is gonna wanna use them!

We also need more combat oriented air vehicles, gunships and bombers are needed, we need stuff that can fight Tanks from a different tier of combat!

Your post hit on so many issues that I couldn't help but +1.
If CCP brings in an aerial attack vehicle like the Hornet from Halo, then I might be swayed into buying boosters again.

If AV wasn't garbage tanks would be more balanced. Simple fact, 1 hardener active can stop AV barrages from 2 proto AVers.
But 2 hardeners can stop any and everything thrown at you. Only way to get through 2 hardeners is 5 or more proto AVers, or 3 or more railguns.
Limit tanks to 1 hardener able to be equipped at a time and my sica wouldn't be so god mode.

Also, you're a scrub if you're not running at least 2 hardeners on any tank not meant to be a mountain max damage rail tank.

But yes, proto AV is useless now due to immobillity and nerfed damage. Even using an LAV is w/ AV is rather pointless w/ the buffed speed and regen tanks now have. Its pretty much only tanks can kill tanks. And just like everyone w/ an IQ above 90 thought, it's super unbalanced.

If AV wasn't garbage tanks would be more balanced. Simple fact, 1 hardener active can stop AV barrages from 2 proto AVers.
But 2 hardeners can stop any and everything thrown at you. Only way to get through 2 hardeners is 5 or more proto AVers, or 3 or more railguns.
Limit tanks to 1 hardener able to be equipped at a time and my sica wouldn't be so god mode.

Also, you're a scrub if you're not running at least 2 hardeners on any tank not meant to be a mountain max damage rail tank.

But yes, proto AV is useless now due to immobillity and nerfed damage. Even using an LAV is w/ AV is rather pointless w/ the buffed speed and regen tanks now have. Its pretty much only tanks can kill tanks. And just like everyone w/ an IQ above 90 thought, it's super unbalanced.

Time and time again i see people say they can't kill tanks. That with how 'OP' the hardeners are it takes multiple AV to get through those defenses. I think that thought process is the problem.

When the active modules are running, the tank is at its peak power. You can not attack tanks like you would in patches past. It is critical to lull the tank into a false sense of security. Hold your fire and stay out of site while it makes its assault. When it meets no resistance it will stick around while its modules go on cooldown. That is the moment to strike.

I had a FW match yesterday where we had an enemy tank sitting on B just blasting it and anything that moved to hell and back. I think i watched half a dozen swarm launchers get up on the second level and get blasted to bits trying to take it down. Only the lucky ones even got off one volley. They were not thinking, not realizing the game has changed. They were attacking a tank exactly how you would have last week.

I had RE's equipped so i snuck around the back of the tank, stuck three to its backside and then with a chuckle... waited. It took about 20 seconds for the hardener to wear off, but the second it did that tank vaporized. Had I been impatient and blown the RE as soon as i could, that tank would have lived.

If you run proximity explosives, don't lay them out to serve as a deterrent to tanks assaulting a position. When they assault they have their cooldowns up, and scanning the area for threats. They are at their peak power. Instead, either through timing or watching the flow of the battlefield place your mines where the tanks will be when their cooldowns are up and they are running for the hills to escape. They are usually less attentive to their surroundings. It is immensely satisfying driving a tank into a pile of mines as they desperately try to escape.

These tactics have been working great for me. I actually find hunting tanks far more enjoyable this patch. Its become extremely tactical. No longer can you just pull out a swarm and point, shoot, dead.

tldr - Stop attacking tanks when their hardeners are up. Be patient and wait until they are vulnerable. Also, flank them. AV that does not flank is cannon fodder.

So basically any tanker with more than 2 Iq puts on two hardners and cycles them! He gets nearly 80 seconds 'On' time, with 10 seconds to retreat to the redline, then a 10 second cooldown on his first hardner.

Come on, if we can't attack while they have hardners, we need ways of stopping them retreating with them off. We need ways to level the playing field!

If hardners are the trump card we need a tactic to counter!
In a game of hearts even if someone wins the whole game, you can 'shoot the moon' and level the field, AV now needs a 'shoot the moon' of there own, something that isn't necessarily easy to pull off, but devastating when it does!

I haven't actually seen many tanks running multiple hardeners. That said, I completely agree that chaining hardeners completely breaks CCP's intended mechanics. The 'waves' of opportunity concept breaks down completely if a new wave can be started the second the old one wears off.

This is the kind of feedback we need to be getting CCP so they can balance and extend the vehicle base they have in place.

They really have two paths they could follow. The first is to just make fitting multiple hardeners have some severe penalties, to either cooldown or active duration. While functional it would be a missed opportunity, not to mention dull.

The second path is to give infantry the tools they need to counter the tanks, while introducing some interesting counter play. I would love to see them add in stasis webifier land mines, or an Amarr AV weapon that acts like an EMP knocking out active modules.

I just hope CCP keep the tactical level of gameplay that the new tanks have introduced. While frustrating at times its much more interesting.

Definitely agree on those fronts, especially the dual hardener setup. I run 3 on a sica though

If CCP intends for light AV to be a vehicle deterrent, then we should at least have a fear factor. HAVs aren't afraid of their counters excluding other HAVs. WP for dmg would be great also. 35 WP for every 1000 dmg caused.

[EDIT]

WP for dmg should be called
Enemy Asset Damage + 35.

Includes installations & vehicles.

Thats all well and good, but he really doesn't consider certain things!

First of all, what happens when both sides don't have tanks?
We shouldn't HAVE to use tanks to defend ourselves, ill admit its real cool to see 4 on 4 tank battles, its cool to be apart of them to, but when one side doesn't have tanks its incredibly unbaalanced!

You can't deny it, even the video shows it, anything less than Proto is useless against a vehicle, and even then they are only any use when the tanks aren't 'ON'. We need methods to catch vehicles out.

We need things like webifiers, temporal grenades, e-war that cause guns to overheat, or modules to enter cooldown faster! Tank v Tank battles are brilliant, but you can't balance Tanks of the provision that everyone is gonna wanna use them!

We also need more combat oriented air vehicles, gunships and bombers are needed, we need stuff that can fight Tanks from a different tier of combat!

Right now i'm thinking the primary weakness of AV is mobility. Given the current resists and the current mobility of tanks what gets AV(necessarily Proto for our new vehicles) killed is lack of mobility.

I'd like to see a mobility platform(think walker frame or hoverdisk) that allowed the normal use of handheld weapons but had only marginal secondary AV-based benefits. Best solution to me would be if we could shoot from the saddle of the personal hoverbike transport solution CCP has talked about. The point is AV would be able to bug out and perhaps live to continue cat-and-mousing with the three to six tanks on the field.

This would make AV rewarding and viable, and we would be able to avoid buffing damage or otherwise altering weapons balance. It would add another layer of gameplay that would interact well with both infantry and vehicles, making for a richer mix and more adaptability for infantry who want an alternative to spending a significant portion of the match in a tank.

This is war, and we should all expect to have to do whatever is required to win. Put it is also an entertainment product, and a portion of the playerbase is not here to be forced into a vehicle-based playstyle because there is no viable tactical alternative.

In planetary conquest matches we can expect teams and squads to evolve viable strategies and tactics, expect combined arms solutions where infantry/vehicles support each other, and accept no excuses. But in pub matches it's a different story - infantry need tools to make the game more interesting than the vehicle-driven stagnation we have atm. I think a mobility option for infantry could satisfy both pilots and infantry, and give us more interesting, visceral matches.

Thank you, personally I really want to see APC units, high tank, low damage ground vehicle, that carries a full squad.

And when we get to the MMO part of hundreds of people on at a time, I wanna see globemasters, 1 pilot, 2 gunners, and room for either 24 infantry, or 12 infantry and a tank!

message from Godin

1: As it should be. That's like saying an all assault team vs. a Scout, Logi, sentinel, and assault team, and then the assault team losing horribly. Never bring the same/very similar team into a match vs. a balanced out team and expect to win. Obvoiously the combined arms team will win, why shouldn't they?

2: Explain temporal grenades, and those last two EWAR ideas are OP, and makes no sense. Tracking disruptors, and a EMP that messes with our UI would work just fine. Webs are completely accepted.

3: That was the point. period of which the vehicles become gods, followed b periods of becoming even weaker than 1.6. There's several ways of exploiting this period, especially with swarms due to their high ROF (for a AV weapon). You just need to be at the right place at the right time. Has done wonders for me