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Aero Yassavi
Scions of Athra
4089
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Posted - 2013.12.15 03:37:00 -
[1] - Quote
The new items in the Loyalty Stores have reduced skill requirements to use them. Notably, you can use prototype suits at level 3, which saves you a lot of SP. Now, when Uprising 1.7 launched CCP was still displaying the following graph,
http://web.ccpgamescdn.com/dust/news.control/65526/1/LP_Graph.png
Surely other people looked at this, then looked at the costs of suits in the LP store and decided they would spend their points elsewhere and just buy the protosuits from the loyalty store? But then, AFTER Uprising 1.7 launched, CCP updated the displayed information to the following,
https://web.ccpgamescdn.com/dust/news.control/65526/1/fw_devblog_11_lppayouttable.png
Note how things drastically changed. Now you look at it, and realize you're not going to be able to get as many dropsuits as you thought. I know I personally would of rather spent my skill points going up to Level 5 in my dropsuit to simply buy the prototype suits with ISK, but it's too late now.
I understand that the contents of the original graph was based on when LP costs where higher, but we were never given that information until a few days after Uprising 1.7 hit. I understand that the information displayed in the image was the numbers present at launch, but given how the original graph only uses markings at 10,000 LP intervals, there was no way we would of known. After all, during the first few days of Uprising 1.7 that first graph was still the information CCP was presenting to us. And no, I'm not saying we should be getting 40,000 LP per victory, but nonetheless that was the information CCP was presenting us and it has altered many decisions.
It's just so stupid how CCP can make huge mistakes like this, and this is a huge mistake (they were presenting to us numbers that were not even remotely accurate) and not do anything about it. I can not be the only one who spent a ton of skill points based off the information provided on the first graph, but surely CCP won't care. They'll just drastically alter things without telling us and then tell you "tough luck."
Angels of vengeance, angels of mercy, scions of Athra. Amarr Victor
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Aero Yassavi
Scions of Athra
4092
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Posted - 2013.12.15 03:45:00 -
[2] - Quote
Really? You think that blunder by CCP is just "meh"? How is that information even remotely similar? And is it too hard to believe someone like me made their decision on how to spend 3.5 million skill points entirely based off of that?
Angels of vengeance, angels of mercy, scions of Athra. Amarr Victor
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Aero Yassavi
Scions of Athra
4105
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Posted - 2013.12.15 21:30:00 -
[3] - Quote
Apparently GMs said they can't talk to CCP, and suggested I continue to raise this issue on the forums.
Angels of vengeance, angels of mercy, scions of Athra. Amarr Victor
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Aero Yassavi
Scions of Athra
4105
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Posted - 2013.12.15 21:44:00 -
[4] - Quote
Chunky Munkey wrote:Some of the LP stuff is good value, some of it isn't. Mix and match people, it isn't hard. But what if you found value in some of the LP stuff because CCP was toting around a graph that grossly misrepresented how much LP we would be making? And spent 3.5 million unallocated skill points based on that blunder? It isn't hard.
Angels of vengeance, angels of mercy, scions of Athra. Amarr Victor
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Aero Yassavi
Scions of Athra
4108
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Posted - 2013.12.16 00:59:00 -
[5] - Quote
Centurion mkII wrote:Did ccp say how much each proto suit would cost? So could you say the graph told you nothing the first time. The graph was still displayed for the first couple days of Uprising 1.7, when we could look up the costs of the items in the loyalty stores ourselves. And since for those first couple days people were level 2 standing at best, you couldn't tell that the graph was inaccurate.
Angels of vengeance, angels of mercy, scions of Athra. Amarr Victor
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Aero Yassavi
Scions of Athra
4114
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Posted - 2013.12.16 17:22:00 -
[6] - Quote
Texs Red wrote:What do you consider "sustainable"? If you are talking about being able to run full LP proto every single match and still turn a profit then I say no, proto stomping is bad enough. Try just using ADV suits and basic weapons, then buy proto gear to sell once the market opens up. Much more cost efficient. It doesn't matter what I define "sustainable" as. CCP gave us a fake graph that was still up during the first days of Uprising 1.7 which gave a false illusion on what you'd be able to sustain in FW.
Obviously 40,000 LP is too much, but nonetheless that is what CCP was showing us.
Angels of vengeance, angels of mercy, scions of Athra. Amarr Victor
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Aero Yassavi
Scions of Athra
4114
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Posted - 2013.12.16 17:26:00 -
[7] - Quote
Pvt Numnutz wrote:You probably should have waited till it was out before you spent anything. Ah well you have learned a valuable lesson, don't leap before you look. You said it only needed lvl 3? How many sp is that? Sir, you do not understand. I DID wait until it was out. Guess what? This graph was still being displayed for the first few days of Uprising 1.7.
I already had suits at level 3, and I had enough SP to take two of them up to prototype, but since I was under the impression I could get the proto suits at level 3 from the LP with good payout so I spent those points elsewhere.
Angels of vengeance, angels of mercy, scions of Athra. Amarr Victor
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Aero Yassavi
Scions of Athra
4114
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Posted - 2013.12.16 17:39:00 -
[8] - Quote
DeadlyAztec11 wrote: No matter how you mask it, the Amarr are religious conquers that enslave people. While the Caldari are large government people that control their citizens with something akin to janisariers and serfdom, as well as their leaders are large corporate capitalists.
To go beyond that you would need to make explanations for the Caldari and Amarr much more lengthy.
When you start to get more into the story the lines between right and wrong start to blur, but even then the Caldari and Amarr are still seen as somewhat bad guys.
I know I was originally going to choose Amarr, my thinking was, "These guys are like Crusaders in space, on a mission from the divine... o.O". Then I read they enslaved people and I said "**** that, I hate social injustice like that.".
Then I read about the Caldari and thought "Wow, space Communists! Cool!", BUT!- I then did EXTRA research online and realized that they weren't communists at all and thought "These guys aren't even trying to really help people, they are just what would happen if Japan was administered by Wal-Mart and they all decided to look like grey communists".
The CaldarI and Amarr just aren't appealing unless you want to be an antagonist, or possibly if you want to be a reformer, IE an Amarr that wants to free the slaves or a Caldari that wants more social liberties.
But let me ask you True, how would you have written the descriptions?
You see, True, it's people like this who make all your efforts null. "No matter how you mask it"? We're not trying to mask anything.
The Amarr don't just go an enslave anyone willy nilly. All the races they enslave are primitive and aggressive. That does not exclude the Minmatar, who are perhaps the most violent culture New Eden has ever seen. When Amarr "enslaves" them (really, they are guiding them as a parent figure) they transform them into more peaceful human beings that bring more stability to New Eden. Oh and yeah, Amarr are all about peace and stability among New Eden, that is the whole premise of their religion and it is also evident by how they are watching over the other three empires.
And you're right, Caldari aren't space communists. In fact, they are space capitalists which is the EXACT opposite. And where do you get that they are trying to hate people?
Oh and guess what? Amarr does free all their slaves, that is part of their culture, it is not the acts of reformists. Oh and guess what? Caldari do have social liberties, it is part of their culture, it is not the acts of reformists.
Meanwhile, you have the Minmatar who as already stated are perhaps the most brutal culture New Eden has ever seen and you have the Gallente who have a sincere lack of respect for human life the main thing keeping their economy afloat is the drug cartel, they treat their POW's worse than anything you've heard of on Earth, and they willingly accept their citizens as "collateral damage" if it means capturing the enemy.
Angels of vengeance, angels of mercy, scions of Athra. Amarr Victor
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Aero Yassavi
Scions of Athra
4114
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Posted - 2013.12.16 17:48:00 -
[9] - Quote
Sgt Buttscratch wrote:I think I understand what the OP is saying but his ideology is flawed.
You shouldn't go to level 3 knowing you can get PROTO suits with reduced skill requirement, you should still aim for level 5 on anything youwant as a skill. The skill bonus' on say a scout suit profile dampening 15% at level 3 is nothing compared to the 25% at proto, you still need to spend the points reguardless, trying to shortcut this will only show as you come up short against those who do have the max version. Same for weapons, only go to level 5 on a weapon due to the fact the one that usually requires proficiency is open early, does not mean you will get a weapon that acts the same as having proficiency 1, you will have less damage.
Now you may feel cheated because they changed stats a bit before release, but they must have encountered some goofy mathematics they didn't like and adjusted it prior to release, as game developers this is a very common thing.
Aim straight and get shooting, tears on battlefields are for the mothers of the caldari scum I just shotgunned in the back of the head. They may have changed the stats a bit before release, but they didn't tell us until a couple days after release. Meanwhile, the older graph was what we had to go off on, and since in that time no one was any further than level 2 standing it was impossible to tell that the graph was inaccurate.
And maybe those bonuses are worth it for a scout, but for Amarr Assault and Amarr Logi I could live without 10% extra heat reduction or effectiveness of repair modules.
Angels of vengeance, angels of mercy, scions of Athra. Amarr Victor
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Aero Yassavi
Scions of Athra
4114
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Posted - 2013.12.16 17:49:00 -
[10] - Quote
Bunny Demon wrote:Aero Yassavi wrote:Really? You think that blunder by CCP is just "meh"? How is that information even remotely similar? And is it too hard to believe someone like me made their decision on how to spend 3.5 million skill points entirely based off of that? Should of waited until the release of 1.7 to see what was balanced, I mean it's kind of retar*ed to spend large amounts of sp right before a major update because no one knows what ninja nerfs will happen and therefore if you are spilling into something that will be useless ****, can't you people see that I DID wait until after Uprising 1.7 released? Again, they may have changed the numbers before but they didn't tell us until a couple days after.
Angels of vengeance, angels of mercy, scions of Athra. Amarr Victor
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Aero Yassavi
Scions of Athra
4115
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Posted - 2013.12.16 18:34:00 -
[11] - Quote
Saxbrin Shain wrote:You made a decision based on patch notes rather than waiting a few days to see the patch for yourself? HTFU.
You're claiming you did wait. Obviously not. Really? You obviously cannot read.
Can you not comprehend that the old graph was still the graph that we had to go off of for the first couple days of Uprising 1.7?
Angels of vengeance, angels of mercy, scions of Athra. Amarr Victor
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Aero Yassavi
Scions of Athra
4115
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Posted - 2013.12.16 18:37:00 -
[12] - Quote
Here is when CCP gave us the new table https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1605619#post1605619 Read the date: December 13th, 2013
Uprising 1.7 hit on December 10th, 2013.
Honestly, how hard is it to understand that I did wait until after the update, but for three days of Uprising 1.7 we still had the faulty graph to go off of.
Angels of vengeance, angels of mercy, scions of Athra. Amarr Victor
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Aero Yassavi
Scions of Athra
4117
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Posted - 2013.12.16 18:43:00 -
[13] - Quote
Saxbrin Shain wrote:All I hear is "wah wah wah". Cry more. Please don't.
Angels of vengeance, angels of mercy, scions of Athra. Amarr Victor
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Aero Yassavi
Scions of Athra
4130
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Posted - 2013.12.16 23:10:00 -
[14] - Quote
Himiko Kuronaga wrote:Aero Yassavi wrote:Chunky Munkey wrote:Some of the LP stuff is good value, some of it isn't. Mix and match people, it isn't hard. But what if you found value in some of the LP stuff because CCP was toting around a graph that grossly misrepresented how much LP we would be making? And spent 3.5 million unallocated skill points based on that blunder? It isn't hard. You crystal balled in advance on numbers that were always subject to change and you lost. Why are people having so much trouble reading? I didn't crystal ball or predict anything. I went off of official CCP information given on Decemeber 10th after Uprising 1.7 went live.
Angels of vengeance, angels of mercy, scions of Athra. Amarr Victor
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