Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
4164
   |
Posted - 2013.12.14 20:48:00 -
[1] - Quote
Borne Velvalor wrote:Gunnlogi + 2 Shield Hardeners + Amped ADV Blaster versus Madrugar + 2 Armor Hardeners and 1 ENH or COM Armor Repairer + Amped ADV Blaster. Which wins?
1. Blasters are a primarily anti-infantry weapon. Complaining that they take a long time to kill a tank is like complaining that an Assault Rifle takes too long to kill a tank.
2. Blasters are primarily focused on shield damage. Giving both vehicles the same weapon when one vehicle has built-in resistance to the weapon on its main tank and the other vehicle has a built-in vulnerability is a great way to introduce a huge amount of bias. The best way to kill a Blaster Tank is with another tank using a weapon that ISN'T a Blaster. If there's an enemy Madrugar running Blasters, a primarily Militia-fitted Sica can attach a Standard Large Missile Turret and destroy the Maddy before it even gets in Blaster range. Also, as a shield tank, you have a lot less to fear from AV, which is heavily weighted towards anti-armour effectiveness. Most attacks short of Proto Swarms can be shrugged off with little concern even when you're NOT running hardeners. Forge Guns are a threat, but you can retreat, recover and pop hardeners before moving in again.
Quote:What would be the shield tanker's role then?
Where armour is good at actively tanking infantry AV attacks because of the longer duration of their modules, shields have a better passive tank against such things, making them more suited to long-range combat and running as the AV tank. You need to have good situational awareness for AV, but you need to get in closer for anti-infantry.
Putting remainder of quotes in BOLD with responses below:
Instantly popped by preempts and long range attacks before hardeners go on
I haven't been instantly popped even in my 110k Sica with only one Standard item in the fitting (my Large Missile Turret).
tiny health
My worst Sica fitting has over 5000 raw HP.
slow regeneration
Slightly slower, but not by much, and can be buffed with Shield Boosters.
no regeneration in combat
Again, this "problem" can be solved with Shield Boosters. Kind of like the problem with armour where you can't get ANY regen AT ALL without fitting a repairer. Shield tanks get passive regen WITHOUT fitting any modules, so of course that regen will come with additional limitations.
slower movement
but faster acceleration, making speed modules less of a necessity.
need to use high slots to tank lowering DPS
Have more high slots, allowing for a "glass cannon" fit that allows higher DPS than a Madrugar can ever achieve.
outlasted by two to three times by most armor hardened tanks
Except that this claim is only backed by the assumption that you're both using anti-shield weaponry where the armour tank has an innate advantage.
and have their stronger resistance mostly negated by their tiny HP pool and the fact that Blasters and Railguns do more damage to them than armor.
So negate the lacking HP pool with a Shield Booster and bring Missiles to counter armour because that's what they're weak against. I don't see how this is a problem?
I use both Gunnys and Maddys and the Gunnys are much, much harder to use. I actually lose Gunnys to AV and Turrets, whereas I only, rarely, lose a Maddy to another, usually better fitted, tank(s).
And I run both Sicas and Gunnlogis, and with either one, I can comfortably say that a Blaster Madrugar will die against me more often than the reverse. |
Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
4176
|
Posted - 2013.12.15 05:24:00 -
[2] - Quote
Have you tried doing the math where you account for the range advantage of the Missile Turrets on a Sica/Gunnlogi? Because my Missile Sica with NO DAMAGE MODS can usually win in a straight 1 vs. 1 against a Madrugar. I'm a Militia tank, with only one item on my fitting that isn't Militia (main turret), and I can solo a Blaster Maddy because I will almost always hit first. 2 shots to break shields, that's easily less time than it takes for the target to 1. realise they're taking fire, 2. decide how to react, then 3, actually activate the modules needed. I'll usually hit another 2 missiles at full damage BEFORE the hardeners come into play, and that's often enough to leave the Madrugar dead before I need to reload. If not, my greater range gives me time to back up into cover, reload, and pop out for another volley a few seconds later, while they're still in a weakened state. Check out the depleted shield recharge delay - When I empty my clip, guaranteed any competent Madrugar fitting will be without shields, and thus taking decent damage, when I reappear.
And if you're running double hardeners on your Sica/Gunnlogi, guess what? The higher resist means you can cycle your hardeners instead of needing to pop both at once, and keep up the still-high resist for long enough to stand up against the enemy tank.
Have you considered bringing a Gunnlogi with a Heavy Shield Extender, one Hardener and a Shield Booster for mid-combat regen? Or with the Extender and dual hardeners? Either of those fittings is better than running dual hardeners and damage mod.
Designing a shield tank to do what armour tanks are built for then complaining that shield tanks aren't as good is like complaining that an anti-infantry and anti-shield weapon takes to long to kill an armour tank. YOU'RE DOING IT WRONG.
Also, you suck at Railguns. Fire interval 1.4s. Charge (0.35s) then fire, and your second shot can follow up not only less than 2s after your first, but less than 2s after you started charging. It's not even 3s from your first shot to the 3rd if you decide to push it and overheat the weapon. That's fast enough that, with two damage mods, you can generally 3-shot an armour tank if the first hit lands (stripping shields AND starting on the armour damage, which you forgot to account for in spite of even an unmodded Militia Railgun hitting hard enough to do so) before they activate hardeners. If they're already hardened, take 2 shots, cool down, another 2 shots and target is dead in under 4.5s - how fast can your Blaster kill me when we start at max Railgun range again? Yeah... |