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John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics League of Infamy 667	Posted - 2013.12.14 04:29:00 - [1] - Quote I'm not even going to mention the ban issues, those have been mentioned ad nauseam already. I think these three changes would improve the player experience in many ways. 1) SP requirement for entry. Configure it so that you can only join FW if you have, for example, 1 or 2 million SP. This solves 2 problems: - Fewer noobs means a higher level of play, as most of us assume FW is intended to have. - it won't eliminate griefing, but makes it more of a commitment as you can't just spam 20 alts a day to wreak havoc. You would actually have to grind out a few battles to even get them into a FW battle. 2) Better LP store items. More unique items you can't get anywhere else (this is probably in the works, it would be foolish not to be). This provides greater incentive to play. One suggestion to make a simple start would be colored variants of suits, maybe some sweet camo patterns. This eliminates the need to craft entirely new items, just play around with existing ones wil do in the short term. 3) Choosing a side: the current default is that all 4 factions are preselected, so noobs won't pick a side. Change the default that NO side is set, so people HAVE to choose a sides . This will hopefully make the current lopsided state of many battles coifh Amarr c "The line between disorder and order lies in logistics"* -Sun Tzu Amarr victor!
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics League of Infamy 669	Posted - 2013.12.14 18:51:00 - [2] - Quote Bump! Any suggestions for how to structure standings rewards for the best players on the losing team? "The line between disorder and order lies in logistics" -Sun Tzu Amarr victor!
deepfried salad gilliam Sanguine Knights 280	Posted - 2013.12.14 19:09:00 - [3] - Quote Standings loss for leaving a battle 1/5 lp for a loss Top k/d gets x1.4 lp Top wp/d gets x1.4 lp Least deaths x1.1 lp Most objectives hacked x 1.35 quits The rewards can stack This would help reduce rage quits Best of losing team can still make a decent gain for their loyalty The newbs who win aren't rewarded as much as their good team mates "May God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ give you grace and peace" - Second Corinthians chapter one verse two.
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics League of Infamy 686	Posted - 2013.12.15 20:14:00 - [4] - Quote Bump for more feedback. To me, the most important of these is the SP requirement for entry, followed by standings gain for those who play well but nonetheless lose. Agree/disagree? "The line between disorder and order lies in logistics" -Sun Tzu Amarr victor!
deepfried salad gilliam Sanguine Knights 294	Posted - 2013.12.15 21:55:00 - [5] - Quote Also why not have it select your starting race as your race in fw Even newb distribution! of course still changeable anytime "May God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ give you grace and peace" - Second Corinthians chapter one verse two.
Ensar Cael Dead Man's Game 47	Posted - 2013.12.15 22:31:00 - [6] - Quote I think that when you select your FW allegiance, you should only be allowed to play for them or their allies. Add one a one time only chance to turn traitor as a way of minimising griefing as well. Agree on the all other points too.
deepfried salad gilliam Sanguine Knights 298	Posted - 2013.12.16 01:39:00 - [7] - Quote Ensar Cael wrote: I think that when you select your FW allegiance, you should only be allowed to play for them or their allies. Add one a one time only chance to turn traitor as a way of minimising griefing as well. Agree on the all other points too. No, this game must emulate certain parts of eve, fw is one of those. They are not locked in,nor should we be. "May God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ give you grace and peace" - Second Corinthians chapter one verse two.
Aikuchi Tomaru Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 1270	Posted - 2013.12.16 02:08:00 - [8] - Quote Ensar Cael wrote: I think that when you select your FW allegiance, you should only be allowed to play for them or their allies. Add one a one time only chance to turn traitor as a way of minimising griefing as well. Agree on the all other points too. Foxfour said he doesn't want to exclude anybody if his friends play for another faction. Because of this we can always fight for everybody. My proposal: Introduce negative standing. If your standing is negative you can still fight for that faction, but you don't gain any lp. You also don't get standing if your team loses. And if it wins you only get 50 standing. Standing loss for the other faction should also be higher than normal.This would allow you to still play for the faction and also make it possible to get on their good side again, if you choose to change your allegiance.
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics League of Infamy 695	Posted - 2013.12.16 12:43:00 - [9] - Quote Yeah, I really like the idea of preselecting your race as the default, but you should be able to change any time (With the SP requirements I proposed in the OP, of course.) We should always try to keep as much of the sandbox intact as possible. "The line between disorder and order lies in logistics" -Sun Tzu Amarr victor!
Draco Cerberus BurgezzE.T.F Public Disorder. 609	Posted - 2013.12.16 14:48:00 - [10] - Quote So in effect OP, you are asking that unlike in Eve, FW players need to be experienced, not everyone allowed? That seems a bit unfair considering the time to train for a Dust player can quite literally be months or just turning the game on after the last time they had a fail game (can be months as well). This doesn't prevent inexperience from being an issue but rather allows only people with X level of SP in. Here you can view Experience vs SP. LogiGod earns his pips

John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics League of Infamy 696	Posted - 2013.12.16 15:38:00 - [11] - Quote Draco Cerberus wrote: So in effect OP, you are asking that unlike in Eve, FW players need to be experienced, not everyone allowed? That seems a bit unfair considering the time to train for a Dust player can quite literally be months or just turning the game on after the last time they had a fail game (can be months as well). This doesn't prevent inexperience from being an issue but rather allows only people with X level of SP in. Here you can view Experience vs SP. I'm not suggesting they have 5 million SP or something like I that. I understand the concern about being restrictive in what is intended to be a sandbox game (soonGäó), and yes, I know all about the disparity between SP and skill as there are plenty of people who have 2x my gungame with 1/2 the SP. However, I would like to see something in place to keep non-TK griefing in check (as we all know TK-based bans were almost as OP as tanks last week). Honestly I don't make alts to grief or farm the academy (dirty business that) so I have no idea what a new player starts out with now in terms of SP, it used to be 500k but maybe it's not now? So, lets use 500k for the sake of argument. How long does it take a noob to get up to 1 million SP? Passive SP + 6000 bonus nets you 200k SP per week for doing nothing but turning on the game for 5 minutes. Add a passive booster and you are up to 300k. So, you play a few battles and you can get to 1 million SP in 2 weeks, tops. Most of us have been advocating much longer periods in the academy forever, so what's the big deal about keeping a noob out of FW for 2 weeks if you want them in the academy for at least double that amount of time? Same thing with griefers. They can still do it if they want to make an alt, activate the passive SP, and wait for a few weeks. More power to them if they want to do that, that sort of dedication, no matter how misguided, should be rewarded in New Eden. "The line between disorder and order lies in logistics" -Sun Tzu Amarr victor!
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics League of Infamy 696	Posted - 2013.12.16 15:40:00 - [12] - Quote Also: I'm no expert on EvE but can you make a new account, instantly spawn 3 characters from it and grief basically just as effectively as if you had been working on that character for a few months? Can you then take all their isk, send it to your main, then play with your main while you biomass them all and do it all over again 10 hours later with that same account? Plus the two alts you can do the same with on your primary account? All for free? I doubt it, especially the part about being just as effective as if you had been working on that character for a few months. The EvE - Dust parallel simply doesn't always work. "The line between disorder and order lies in logistics" -Sun Tzu Amarr victor!
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics League of Infamy 699	Posted - 2013.12.17 05:58:00 - [13] - Quote Shameless bump! Just say no to alt spam! "The line between disorder and order lies in logistics" -Sun Tzu Amarr victor!
Happy Jack SD Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 47	Posted - 2013.12.17 06:25:00 - [14] - Quote Use WP instead of SP, then they actually have to earn that level of development. People can create accounts and come back 2 months later, still a fresh blueberry! "Have faith lest your unbelief consume you." -The Bleeding Chalice
Terry Webber Turalyon 514 Turalyon Alliance 364	Posted - 2013.12.17 06:34:00 - [15] - Quote I like a lot of your ideas in your OP, John. There is also another change to faction warfare that can be made. Right now, faction warfare is really one-sided and it doesn't give the Amarr and Caldari a chance to make progress. Everytime I look at the starmap, they would either have very few districts or none at all. To correct this, one person on another thread proposed that after a district is conquered, it will be locked for a certain amount of time. When it unlocks, the district is open to conflict. Join Turalyon 514! Click here for more details.
Stephen Seneca State Patriots Templis Dragonaors 20	Posted - 2013.12.17 06:50:00 - [16] - Quote In regards to Ensar's comment : I posted my ideas of how FW should work somewhere around this forum. Ill try to find it and post it here later but to state 1 or 2 ideas. We are mercs, so we take contracts. I proposed signing up for a faction for extended periods of time to become soldiers for them. The length of the contract (maybe call it a tour contract) would be 2 weeks at a time with the option of always accepting tour extensions. The benefits of being a soldier would be incrementally increased LP payouts based on the duration you have been a member of your faction. Lets say 8.333 % each month so after 1 year of actively fighting for your side you would be at a 100% gain. -numbers need reworking-. Another cool little idea is salvaging enemy dogtags which can be turned into the LP store for weapons and general swag. Because of the increase to LP payouts, possibly pay a tax to your faction when doing pubs. It cant be all sunshine and free flowing beer and bikini wearing women, now can it. Some beach.... Cheers eh. For the State! Keep your stick on the ice and get the pucks in deep, eh. Rail Rifles. All. The. Way!
Niuvo NECROM0NGERS Covert Intervention 867	Posted - 2013.12.17 07:27:00 - [17] - Quote They should add small rewards for reaching a new level in FW. You are proving that you are loyal to that faction. It would be nice to gain standing even if lose. Some battles are hopeless.
Lonegnr Ikomari-Onu Enforcement Caldari State 12	Posted - 2013.12.17 07:56:00 - [18] - Quote John Demonsbane wrote: Also: I'm no expert on EvE but can you make a new account, instantly spawn 3 characters from it and grief basically just as effectively as if you had been working on that character for a few months? Can you then take all their isk, send it to your main, then play with your main while you biomass them all and do it all over again 10 hours later with that same account? Plus the two alts you can do the same with on your primary account? All for free? I doubt it, especially the part about being just as effective as if you had been working on that character for a few months. The EvE - Dust parallel simply doesn't always work. I laughed so hard it hurt. That actually is possible in Eve. (don't recall the delete timer if you're using your main account but it's extremely easy to make throw-away alts on your main account or otherwise).
Oswald Rehnquist 907	Posted - 2013.12.17 08:24:00 - [19] - Quote I think instead of standing for losses, there should be standing given for every 1000 wps in a match I also think the SP entry level should be 5 mill Below 28 dB
Aqil Aegivan The Southern Legion The Umbra Combine 241	Posted - 2013.12.17 09:50:00 - [20] - Quote I agree with most of these points, though I too think WP is better than SP for getting into FW. I would also like to see a lot more factors in LP payouts like the size of the EVE side conflict and the amount of LP being given out by that faction overall (i.e. better payouts when winning for underpopulated or typically losing factions). I do think standings gain should be possible for a loss. I do think it should be partly a matter of WP but I think FW should also start introducing the ideas that are used in PC a little more. Perhaps standings gain, win or lose, should take into account clone costs for the faction you're fighting for as part of your standings gain.

Justicar Karnellia Ikomari-Onu Enforcement Caldari State 269	Posted - 2013.12.17 11:32:00 - [21] - Quote Here was my solution - similar in some ways to yours - idiotically I posted it in the general discussions... but not sure which one CCP read anymore... https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=129778&find=unread
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics League of Infamy 707	Posted - 2013.12.17 17:11:00 - [22] - Quote Lonegnr wrote: John Demonsbane wrote: Also: I'm no expert on EvE but can you make a new account, instantly spawn 3 characters from it and grief basically just as effectively as if you had been working on that character for a few months? Can you then take all their isk, send it to your main, then play with your main while you biomass them all and do it all over again 10 hours later with that same account? Plus the two alts you can do the same with on your primary account? All for free? I doubt it, especially the part about being just as effective as if you had been working on that character for a few months. The EvE - Dust parallel simply doesn't always work. I laughed so hard it hurt. That actually is possible in Eve. (don't recall the delete timer if you're using your main account but it's extremely easy to make throw-away alts on your main account or otherwise). Can you make a second full account for free just to grief with? More importantly, can they grief just as well as if you spent some time gaining standings? I think that's really the key point. Greifing is the New Eden way, but it's just too easy right now. It takes no committement and very little effort. "The line between disorder and order lies in logistics" -Sun Tzu Amarr victor!
Flint Beastgood III GunFall Mobilization Covert Intervention 409	Posted - 2013.12.17 20:57:00 - [23] - Quote John Demonsbane wrote: Bump for more feedback. To me, the most important of these is the SP requirement for entry, followed by standings gain for those who play well but nonetheless lose. Agree/disagree? Agree. Gÿó +¦ +¦ Gÿó Trained Skills
Flint Beastgood III GunFall Mobilization Covert Intervention 409	Posted - 2013.12.17 21:04:00 - [24] - Quote Stephen Seneca wrote: In regards to Ensar's comment : I posted my ideas of how FW should work somewhere around this forum. Ill try to find it and post it here later but to state 1 or 2 ideas. We are mercs, so we take contracts. I proposed signing up for a faction for extended periods of time to become soldiers for them. The length of the contract (maybe call it a tour contract) would be 2 weeks at a time with the option of always accepting tour extensions. The benefits of being a soldier would be incrementally increased LP payouts based on the duration you have been a member of your faction. Lets say 8.333 % each month so after 1 year of actively fighting for your side you would be at a 100% gain. -numbers need reworking-. Another cool little idea is salvaging enemy dogtags which can be turned into the LP store for weapons and general swag. Because of the increase to LP payouts, possibly pay a tax to your faction when doing pubs. It cant be all sunshine and free flowing beer and bikini wearing women, now can it. Some beach.... Cheers eh. I like this idea, but don't fancy paying a second tax. Gn++n++ +¦ +¦ Gÿó Trained Skills
RKKR The Southern Legion The Umbra Combine 549	Posted - 2013.12.17 21:47:00 - [25] - Quote Choosing factions? Doesn't that collide with the whole 'you are a (greedy ISK) mercenary'-thing? Maybe that it won't allow you to join another faction after you get some standing with an opposing faction until you get rid of your standing >:D, but what does standing mean ATM? Not much.
Leviticus Decoy Opus Arcana Covert Intervention 18	Posted - 2013.12.17 22:41:00 - [26] - Quote I agree 100% with the OP. I'm tired of feeling like I need to suck start a .45 pistol to end the headaches that is the Caldari Faction Warfare. I'm tired of the noobs rushing a tank with nova knives or a noob expending their whole combat load shooting the MCC with there Militia AR. What the ****! I propose this: New members to DUST 514 must stay in the academy until the reach roughly 50k WP and at least 750k-1mil SP, so as to deter players just creating an account and just gaining passive sp to get out of the academy. This would be nice if the academy had tutorials that explained different aspects of the game, chiefly, the use of SP in proper skills to complement the individuals style of game play. After graduation of the Academy, you will now have some knowledge of Skills and what to work for, you'll have a little bit more experience in the academy Skirmish games and you'll have at least some advance equipment to survive better in the Dust world. Additionally, after graduation, you will still need to reach a requirement to enter Factional Warfare. No company in their right mind will hire inexperienced soldiers to fight for them in crucial battles. Why the hellares DUST Factional companoes hiring straight noobs to fight for them? If the SP is set at 750K to graduate the academy, I propose that to enter factional warfare, you'll have to have at least 1-1.5 mil SP. Mercs with at least this much SP will be near Proto gear (if skilled right) or atleast have the means to defend and attack in groups. This idea coupled with the incentives in rewards based off performance one individual mentioned will make the over all experience better. Additionally, standing level 5+ should also reward a percentage of isk as well. To be defined as the associated Faction you're fighting for believes in your skill that they will start paying for your service as well. Just an idea.
Leviticus Decoy Opus Arcana Covert Intervention 18	Posted - 2013.12.17 22:44:00 - [27] - Quote A mercenary is a person who takes part in an armed conflict, who is not a national or a party to the conflict and is "motivated to take part in the hostilities by the desire for private gain. There is no incentive to be in losing battles with unskilled mercs for a faction that only pays me in a currency that I can only use in their store. The **** is that? Anyways...
Stephen Seneca State Patriots EVE Alliance 20131217 21	Posted - 2013.12.18 05:39:00 - [28] - Quote To address the merc issue. I stated you sign up as a soldier in my little idea. The tax would come in so you dont double dip.. huge lp payouts plus pubs. Since youre a soldier, you pay taxes to the faction to fight for public contracts. For the State! Keep your stick on the ice and get the pucks in deep, eh. Rail Rifles. All. The. Way!
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics League of Infamy 719	Posted - 2013.12.18 14:49:00 - [29] - Quote Stephen Seneca wrote: To address the merc issue. I stated you sign up as a soldier in my little idea. The tax would come in so you dont double dip.. huge lp payouts plus pubs. Since youre a soldier, you pay taxes to the faction to fight for public contracts. Hmm. Sounds a little overly restrictive to me, basically you are becoming a member of that faction as much as you are a member of your own corp. if the imperial guard hires me to fight a battle against the matari, once that battle is over, why should I pay them to be able to fight elsewhere? "The line between disorder and order lies in logistics" -Sun Tzu Amarr victor!
Stephen Seneca State Patriots Templis De Novo 22	Posted - 2013.12.18 16:06:00 - [30] - Quote Well, the idea was you arent just hired for the battle but say 2 weeks at a time and you get bonus lp payouts the longer you continually accept extensions. For the State! Keep your stick on the ice and get the pucks in deep, eh. Rail Rifles. All. The. Way!

Aqil Aegivan The Southern Legion The Umbra Combine 243	Posted - 2013.12.18 17:01:00 - [31] - Quote Stephen Seneca wrote: Well, the idea was you arent just hired for the battle but say 2 weeks at a time and you get bonus lp payouts the longer you continually accept extensions. I think that rewards for exclusivity is the point of having payout levels. If that mechanism isn't doing its job in your opinion maybe it would be better to modify it rather than bring in another mechanic.
Stephen Seneca State Patriots Templis De Novo 22	Posted - 2013.12.19 08:11:00 - [32] - Quote Yeah, I do think they should focus on the core elements of the game first. I would also like to see more options too. Soldier status and a more in depth FW, PvE and PvP in an open world, construction, resources. The stuff I think would put the game over the top. For the State! Keep your stick on the ice and get the pucks in deep, eh. Rail Rifles. All. The. Way!


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