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        |  Nightbird Aeon
 Ahrendee Mercenaries
 EoN.
 
 393
 
 
      | Posted - 2013.12.13 20:47:00 -
          [1] - Quote 
 My understanding is that Faction items are very similar to AURUM items. You pay GÇ£xGÇ¥ currency to get an item that has a lower skill requirement than the ISK variety, right?
 
 HereGÇÖs my question: If I have proto skills, why would I fit faction items? I donGÇÖt need the skill dropGǪ. Because I have already maxed that particular skill. Therefore, once a person gets proto-level skills, the incentive to play FW goes downhill.
 
 IF FW is supposed to be an ISK sink, the above paragraph is incongruous with this goal. If I donGÇÖt need GÇ£early-accessGÇ¥ gear, I donGÇÖt need loyalty points. If I donGÇÖt need loyalty points, I donGÇÖt need to do FW. So I am back into running pub matches and making ISK.
 
 NowGǪ if factional gear had lower fitting requirements and similar statsGǪ. Or had better stats but was more expensive to fit (and higher cost)GǪ THEN youGÇÖd have people playing FW matches to get their LP in order to get their faction weapons.
 
 FW has the opportunity to be more of an end-game type of playGǪ. You skill up to get into a more competitive game (more high-SP players), get better gear, then perhaps move on to PC.
 
 But based on the current modelGǪ. FW is positioned as a mid-game type of gameplayGǪ. Get some skills at pub matches, play FW to get LP and access to higher gear while you wait to get skills, then move back to pubs once you donGÇÖt need the help fitting proto gear.
 
 The problem we have had in the pastGǪ. Protos showing up and pub-stomping, wonGÇÖt change. Protos need some game-mode that only they can get intoGǪ so that they will go away and give the basics and advanced players room to grow.
 
 If high-level, richer players won't do FW because there is incentive for them to do so... how can FW be the ISK sink we all wanted it to be?
 
 Thoughts?
 
 
 EVE: Bitter-vet, born 2005 DUST: Closed-beta vet: Always hopeful, frequently disappointed. | 
      
      
        |  bear90211
 Nyain San
 Renegade Alliance
 
 71
 
 
      | Posted - 2013.12.13 20:48:00 -
          [2] - Quote 
 
 Nightbird Aeon wrote:My understanding is that Faction items are very similar to AURUM items. You pay GÇ£xGÇ¥ currency to get an item that has a lower skill requirement than the ISK variety, right?
 HereGÇÖs my question: If I have proto skills, why would I fit faction items? I donGÇÖt need the skill dropGǪ. Because I have already maxed that particular skill. Therefore, once a person gets proto-level skills, the incentive to play FW goes downhill.
 
 IF FW is supposed to be an ISK sink, the above paragraph is incongruous with this goal. If I donGÇÖt need GÇ£early-accessGÇ¥ gear, I donGÇÖt need loyalty points. If I donGÇÖt need loyalty points, I donGÇÖt need to do FW. So I am back into running pub matches and making ISK.
 
 NowGǪ if factional gear had lower fitting requirements and similar statsGǪ. Or had better stats but was more expensive to fit (and higher cost)GǪ THEN youGÇÖd have people playing FW matches to get their LP in order to get their faction weapons.
 
 FW has the opportunity to be more of an end-game type of playGǪ. You skill up to get into a more competitive game (more high-SP players), get better gear, then perhaps move on to PC.
 
 But based on the current modelGǪ. FW is positioned as a mid-game type of gameplayGǪ. Get some skills at pub matches, play FW to get LP and access to higher gear while you wait to get skills, then move back to pubs once you donGÇÖt need the help fitting proto gear.
 
 The problem we have had in the pastGǪ. Protos showing up and pub-stomping, wonGÇÖt change. Protos need some game-mode that only they can get intoGǪ so that they will go away and give the basics and advanced players room to grow.
 
 If high-level, richer players won't do FW because there is incentive for them to do so... how can FW be the ISK sink we all wanted it to be?
 
 Thoughts?
 
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 ...................................,
 
 Heavies are still squishy to my AR, just 5 rounds into them extra ;D 
hmm, I want taco's... | 
      
      
        |  Ghost Kaisar
 THIRD EARTH INCORPORATED
 Dark Taboo
 
 1161
 
 
      | Posted - 2013.12.13 20:49:00 -
          [3] - Quote 
 Excellently put
 
 Minmatar Faction Warfare: Let's get Organized | 
      
      
        |  Gorra Snell
 The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar
 DARKSTAR ARMY
 
 316
 
 
      | Posted - 2013.12.13 20:51:00 -
          [4] - Quote 
 
 Nightbird Aeon wrote:
 NowGǪ if factional gear had lower fitting requirements and similar statsGǪ. Or had better stats but was more expensive to fit (and higher cost)GǪ THEN youGÇÖd have people playing FW matches to get their LP in order to get their faction weapons.
 
 
 
 
 The majority of the stuff in the LP stores is aurum gear...not the equivalent of it, but the exact same items you can buy for aurum.
 
 BUT...each faction offers a Specialist PROto weapon that does exactly what you're saying...PRO stats, but much lower fitting cost. Also, there's a unique piece of equipment or two for each faction that's flat out better than everything else in the game. For example, the Caldari store has a needle that revives at 100% armor.
 
 RDVs are a failed experiment - can't we just remove them from the game? | 
      
      
        |  Sigberct Amni
 Goonfeet
 Top Men.
 
 291
 
 
      | Posted - 2013.12.13 20:52:00 -
          [5] - Quote 
 
 bear90211 wrote:............................................________
 ....................................,.-'"...................``~.,
 .............................,.-"..................................."-.,
 .........................,/...............................................":,
 .....................,?......................................................,
 .................../...........................................................,}
 ................./......................................................,:`^`..}
 .............../...................................................,:"........./
 ..............?.....__.........................................:`.........../
 ............./__.(....."~-,_..............................,:`........../
 .........../(_...."~,_........"~,_....................,:`........_/
 ..........{.._$;_......"=,_......."-,_.......,.-~-,},.~";/....}
 ...........((.....*~_......."=-._......";,,./`..../"............../
 ...,,,___.`~,......"~.,....................`.....}............../
 ............(....`=-,,.......`........................(......;_,,-"
 ............/.`~,......`-...................................../
 .............`~.*-,.....................................|,./.....,__
 ,,_..........}.>-._...................................|..............`=~-,
 .....`=~-,__......`,.................................
 ...................`=~-,,.,...............................
 ................................`:,,...........................`..............__
 .....................................`=-,...................,%`>--==``
 ........................................_..........._,-%.......`
 ..................................., facepalm.
 not empty quoting
 | 
      
      
        |  Skihids
 Unkn0wn Killers
 Renegade Alliance
 
 2527
 
 
      | Posted - 2013.12.13 20:55:00 -
          [6] - Quote 
 Using a second currency to create an ISK sink won't work.
 
 People are smart enough to calculate the effective exchange rate and work for the currency that is worth the most.
 
 Any new currency can only increase the total wealth if it is to survive.
 | 
      
      
        |  Cenex Langly
 0uter.Heaven
 Proficiency V.
 
 484
 
 
      | Posted - 2013.12.13 20:57:00 -
          [7] - Quote 
 I completely agree with the OP. I have maximum core skills with 27million SP.
 
 I can use all my proto items on my suit. I can fit everything necessary to do my job 100%. My modules fit like a glove with sometimes the EXACT PG/CPU that I need, and sometimes I'm just under by one or two pg/cpu. Why do I care about fitting requirement items when I don't need them? I can already fit my good stuff without them.
 
 FW modules should be like in EVE where they DO MORE. Bigger Bonuses. The only items I have seen with this are those Nanite Injectors and Nano Hives. 100% (over 80%) and 35% (over 30%) respectively. Forgive my ignorance but I didn't check to see any other modules bonuses. I don't even care about these bonuses because they don't SCREAM at me to be all that worth it anyways.
 
 80% is damn near 100% and with a rep tool going automatically I'll clear that last 20% in 1 second. and 5% more for a nanohive is really quite pointless for its cost as the basic nano hive that does what... 12%? will already let me spam grenades with no delay. So what's the point of having 30% -> 35%?
 
 FW will die out as soon as the ISK sink does it's job and makes those FW tryhards go broke.
 
 Newb | 
      
      
        |  Aero Yassavi
 Scions of Athra
 
 4051
 
 
      | Posted - 2013.12.13 20:58:00 -
          [8] - Quote 
 CCP got lazy. "We need items for the loyalty store. Let's just use all our aurum items and call it a day."
 
 Truthfully the only advantage I can find with FW is lower skill requirements, but a lot of the players already spent all the points to unlock the items. If that is going to be your excuse for the abysmal FW payouts, then you'd need to do a respec to let everyone take advantage of lower skill requirements.
 
 Angels of vengeance, angels of mercy, scions of Athra. Amarr Victor | 
      
      
        |  Skihids
 Unkn0wn Killers
 Renegade Alliance
 
 2527
 
 
      | Posted - 2013.12.13 20:58:00 -
          [9] - Quote 
 
 Gorra Snell wrote:Nightbird Aeon wrote:
 NowGǪ if factional gear had lower fitting requirements and similar statsGǪ. Or had better stats but was more expensive to fit (and higher cost)GǪ THEN youGÇÖd have people playing FW matches to get their LP in order to get their faction weapons.
 
 
 The majority of the stuff in the LP stores is aurum gear...not the equivalent of it, but the exact same items you can buy for aurum. BUT...each faction offers a Specialist PROto weapon that does exactly what you're saying...PRO stats, but much lower fitting cost. Also, there's a unique piece of equipment or two for each faction that's flat out better than everything else in the game. For example, the Caldari store has a needle that revives at 100% armor. 
 Making those exclusive items the ONLY ones worth using LP on.
 
 How much FW would it take to keep yourself stocked with those? Enough to keep FW a going concern?
 | 
      
      
        |  Joel II X
 Lo-Tech Solutions Ltd
 
 323
 
 
      | Posted - 2013.12.13 21:00:00 -
          [10] - Quote 
 Specialist weapons. Well, the only one of those I'd get is the specialist PLC. The extra CPU really helps.
 | 
      
      
        |  Skihids
 Unkn0wn Killers
 Renegade Alliance
 
 2527
 
 
      | Posted - 2013.12.13 21:02:00 -
          [11] - Quote 
 
 Cenex Langly wrote:I completely agree with the OP. I have maximum core skills with 27million SP.
 I can use all my proto items on my suit. I can fit everything necessary to do my job 100%. My modules fit like a glove with sometimes the EXACT PG/CPU that I need, and sometimes I'm just under by one or two pg/cpu. Why do I care about fitting requirement items when I don't need them? I can already fit my good stuff without them.
 
 FW modules should be like in EVE where they DO MORE. Bigger Bonuses. The only items I have seen with this are those Nanite Injectors and Nano Hives. 100% (over 80%) and 35% (over 30%) respectively. Forgive my ignorance but I didn't check to see any other modules bonuses. I don't even care about these bonuses because they don't SCREAM at me to be all that worth it anyways.
 
 80% is damn near 100% and with a rep tool going automatically I'll clear that last 20% in 1 second. and 5% more for a nanohive is really quite pointless for its cost as the basic nano hive that does what... 12%? will already let me spam grenades with no delay. So what's the point of having 30% -> 35%?
 
 FW will die out as soon as the ISK sink does its job and makes those FW tryhards go broke.
 
 Given the WP penalty for using any needle better than militia the only call for the best is in PC, and how many do you need for that?
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