DUST Search - Loyalty Point Payouts and Algebra! Only 208k ISK at Level 10

Jadd Hatchen wrote:

Aero Yassavi wrote:

Let's do the math

1 Protosuit = 155 LP + 8,653 ISK
1 Protosuit = 57,690 ISK

155 LP + 8,653 ISK = 57,690 ISK
155 LP = 49,037 ISK

1 LP = 316.37 ISK

Level 10 winning = 659 LP = 208,486 ISK
Level 10 losing = 165 LP = 52,200 ISK

Level 10 requires strong devotion for your faction, only earned after 200 wins for that faction.

Yup, but that's all only true because CCP screwed up and didn't implement an open player driven market FIRST. Because of that, you're figures are correct above. However in EVE Online where one person can earn LPs for FW, the FW loyalty point conversion is something like 4,000 ISK per 1 LP. So IF they had done that in DUST, then your 659 LP for winning a match would be approximately 2,636,000 ISK by virtue of selling FW items to other players.

Again, CCP screws up in DUST 514 by not FULLY implementing all parts of a system. Just as not having all four races of rifles in the game from the get go caused all kinds of gameplay imbalance issues. So does implementing a new currency (LPs) before actually finishing the market for the first one (ISK). I predict the same for Lights and Heavys and their missing guns as with the additional two races worth of vehicle and turrets that are still missing.

On another note, while looking up the worth of an LP in EVE I ran across this interesting article:

http://www.penny-arcade.com/report/article/how-a-clever-player-with-a-useless-item-almost-took-down-eve-onlines-entire

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Aero Yassavi Scions of Athra 4022	Posted - 2013.12.13 18:59:00 - [1] - Quote Let's do the math 1 Protosuit = 155 LP + 8,653 ISK 1 Protosuit = 57,690 ISK 155 LP + 8,653 ISK = 57,690 ISK 155 LP = 49,037 ISK 1 LP = 316.37 ISK Level 10 winning = 659 LP = 208,486 ISK Level 10 losing = 165 LP = 52,200 ISK Level 10 requires strong devotion for your faction, only earned after 200 wins for that faction. Angels of vengeance, angels of mercy, scions of Athra. Amarr Victor
Alldin Kan Imperfects Negative-Feedback 841	Posted - 2013.12.13 19:02:00 - [2] - Quote Aero Yassavi wrote: Let's do the math 1 Protosuit = 155 LP + 8,653 ISK 1 Protosuit = 57,690 ISK 155 LP + 8,653 ISK = 57,690 ISK 155 LP = 49,037 ISK 1 LP = 316.37 ISK Level 10 winning = 659 LP = 208,486 ISK Level 10 losing = 165 LP = 52,200 ISK I was just thinking about this after going in another thread, Gunlogi LP price vs ISK seemed about the same and now I might not actually touch FW. CCP, promoting exploits with every update LOL Commando LOL Plasma Cannon
The Furtive Pygmy Kameira Lodge Amarr Empire 26	Posted - 2013.12.13 19:05:00 - [3] - Quote Math? Logic?????????????? we both know CCP doesn't know the meaning of those words
Gorra Snell The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 315	Posted - 2013.12.13 19:27:00 - [4] - Quote I put Aero's calculations into a spreadsheet, and tried plugging in a few other items. STD light dropsuit LP value = 72.86 Win -> 48,013 Loss -> 12,021 STD light weapon LP value = 51 Win -> 33,609 Loss -> 8,415 PRO light weapon LP value = 401.37 Win -> 264,503 Loss -> 66,226 PRO light weapon variant (i.e., Assault Scrambler Rifle) LP value = 574.4 Win -> 360,737 Loss -> 90,321 STD Basic Armor Plate LP value = 38.25 Win -> 25,207 Loss -> 6,311 STD Basic Armor Plate LP value = 44.72 Win -> 29,470 Loss -> 7,379 RDVs are a failed experiment - can't we just remove them from the game?
Terra Thesis HDYLTA Defiant Legacy 417	Posted - 2013.12.13 19:29:00 - [5] - Quote it's not that simple. nothing in the lp store has isk equivalents. you get the AUR versions with reduced sp reqs. if you've already maxes your sp pre reqs then there's the unique specialist PRO weapons that fit like ADV. i know that's all I'll be spending lp on, not AUR PRO suits when i have V in the skill already. it doesn't make sense to pick the AUR PRO suit as your example calculation. how much ish you imagine the unique weapons are worth? if a duvolle costs 50k a specialists duvolle is going to be worth a lot more. I'm not saying the payout doesn't suck, but you're way over simplifying with your "easy" math. HDYLTA - Freedom Delivered
Beren Hurin Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 1903	Posted - 2013.12.13 19:30:00 - [6] - Quote Also, this really isn't bad considering EVERYONE in the match is getting that isk/LP payout and you are also getting salvage. It is still significantly better than pub matches for the average person, but not the top 20% necessarily.
Aero Yassavi Scions of Athra 4024	Posted - 2013.12.13 19:35:00 - [7] - Quote Terra Thesis wrote: it's not that simple. nothing in the lp store has isk equivalents. you get the AUR versions with reduced sp reqs. if you've already maxes your sp pre reqs then there's the unique specialist PRO weapons that fit like ADV. i know that's all I'll be spending lp on, not AUR PRO suits when i have V in the skill already. it doesn't make sense to pick the AUR PRO suit as your example calculation. how much ish you imagine the unique weapons are worth? if a duvolle costs 50k a specialists duvolle is going to be worth a lot more. I'm not saying the payout doesn't suck, but you're way over simplifying with your "easy" math. Protosuits are the same stats except the skill requirement, and a ton of people already spent the skill points to get their equipment the normal way. If you're going to use that as an argument, then how about a respec? Angels of vengeance, angels of mercy, scions of Athra. Amarr Victor
Foley Jones The Exemplars Top Men. 352	Posted - 2013.12.13 19:38:00 - [8] - Quote I always hated math..... But for you Aero il try and understand MY SP BRINGS ALL THE MERCS TO THE CHANNEL AND THEY ARE LIKE "Do you wanna squad up?" DAMN RIGHT I WANNA SQUAD UP
Chunky Munkey Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 2612	Posted - 2013.12.13 19:46:00 - [9] - Quote LP prices do not scale up with their isk equivalents. Using one item to calculate an exchange rate is not going to work. You're better off comparing your average earnings from both kinds of game mode, and then calculating which items are the best value for money. No.
Aero Yassavi Scions of Athra 4028	Posted - 2013.12.13 19:50:00 - [10] - Quote Chunky Munkey wrote: LP prices do not scale up with their isk equivalents. Using one item to calculate an exchange rate is not going to work. You're better off comparing your average earnings from both kinds of game mode, and then calculating which items are the best value for money. It's not a perfect exchange rate, but it's a good enough reference to let you know that CCP has officially gone insane. Angels of vengeance, angels of mercy, scions of Athra. Amarr Victor

Doc Noah Algintal Core Gallente Federation 989	Posted - 2013.12.13 19:54:00 - [11] - Quote 200 FW wins just to come close to matching public match ISK rewards I wonder if CCP is gonna implement a ISK penalty for losing in public matches as well.
cranium79 ZionTCD Public Disorder. 76	Posted - 2013.12.13 20:05:00 - [12] - Quote Terra Thesis wrote: it's not that simple. nothing in the lp store has isk equivalents. you get the AUR versions with reduced sp reqs. if you've already maxes your sp pre reqs then there's the unique specialist PRO weapons that fit like ADV. i know that's all I'll be spending lp on, not AUR PRO suits when i have V in the skill already. it doesn't make sense to pick the AUR PRO suit as your example calculation. how much ish you imagine the unique weapons are worth? if a duvolle costs 50k a specialists duvolle is going to be worth a lot more. I'm not saying the payout doesn't suck, but you're way over simplifying with your "easy" math. i agree with this. i'm at level V in my cpu and IV in my PG upgrades. my proto assault fit is maxed in cpu and pretty close in pg. with the specialist duvolle, i can run a proto nanite injector (running standard right now) or proto grenades (running advanced right now) in my suit. big help in PC if you ask me. i don't intend on using this fit (with the LP items) anywhere else. if i wanted to be a real d!ck... i can fit a specialist duvolle (i run a gek 38 right now) to my advanced assault fit without changing the cpu and pg consumption. then cause hell in pubs. i was considering a full on LP fit, but after reading the payout (i haven't gotten a chance to play much 1.7 yet), i'm not going to. you are all right, the risk:reward is not there for it. as for FW in general, i'm all for it. i've saved enough ISK... about 14M to burn.... that i can run my 37K isk advanced assault fit for a long time before i need to consider running pubs to replenish. i would still have another 50M isk in the bank, but i don't want to fall below that. i will play pubs still... especially if i'm squaded up and that is what they want to play, but if i'm lone wolfing or the squad is playing FW, then it's FW for me.
AK Cyberdemon Red Star. EoN. 6	Posted - 2013.12.13 20:08:00 - [13] - Quote The biggest problem with this is that you will always have to win in order to get something decent. In pubs, win or lose you still get money. If you lose in FW, you get little to nothing. I played 40 matches yesterday in Caldari FW and only won 5. I had to resort to playing with free suits so I don't lose money.
Tim Rapp Granite Mercenary Division Top Men. 38	Posted - 2013.12.13 20:18:00 - [14] - Quote ive heard they think LP is OP and they are going to nerf how much we make per match
Jadd Hatchen Psygod9 D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 230	Posted - 2013.12.13 20:33:00 - [15] - Quote Aero Yassavi wrote: Let's do the math 1 Protosuit = 155 LP + 8,653 ISK 1 Protosuit = 57,690 ISK 155 LP + 8,653 ISK = 57,690 ISK 155 LP = 49,037 ISK 1 LP = 316.37 ISK Level 10 winning = 659 LP = 208,486 ISK Level 10 losing = 165 LP = 52,200 ISK Level 10 requires strong devotion for your faction, only earned after 200 wins for that faction. Yup, but that's all only true because CCP screwed up and didn't implement an open player driven market FIRST. Because of that, you're figures are correct above. However in EVE Online where one person can earn LPs for FW, the FW loyalty point conversion is something like 4,000 ISK per 1 LP. So IF they had done that in DUST, then your 659 LP for winning a match would be approximately 2,636,000 ISK by virtue of selling FW items to other players. Again, CCP screws up in DUST 514 by not FULLY implementing all parts of a system. Just as not having all four races of rifles in the game from the get go caused all kinds of gameplay imbalance issues. So does implementing a new currency (LPs) before actually finishing the market for the first one (ISK). I predict the same for Lights and Heavys and their missing guns as with the additional two races worth of vehicle and turrets that are still missing. On another note, while looking up the worth of an LP in EVE I ran across this interesting article: http://www.penny-arcade.com/report/article/how-a-clever-player-with-a-useless-item-almost-took-down-eve-onlines-entire
Aero Yassavi Scions of Athra 4050	Posted - 2013.12.13 20:36:00 - [16] - Quote Please explain in further detail this magic that will make 1 LP = 4000 ISK. And do keep in mind 1 Dust LP is not the same as 1 EVE LP. I mean, the guys get 3000 LP just for dropping an OB. And if you do prove it, then why did CCP release this iteration of FW without a player market? I urged them to postpone it until the player market, and their exact words were "I don't think that'd be a good idea." Angels of vengeance, angels of mercy, scions of Athra. Amarr Victor
Lonegnr Ikomari-Onu Enforcement Caldari State 2	Posted - 2013.12.13 20:50:00 - [17] - Quote Jadd Hatchen wrote: Aero Yassavi wrote: Let's do the math 1 Protosuit = 155 LP + 8,653 ISK 1 Protosuit = 57,690 ISK 155 LP + 8,653 ISK = 57,690 ISK 155 LP = 49,037 ISK 1 LP = 316.37 ISK Level 10 winning = 659 LP = 208,486 ISK Level 10 losing = 165 LP = 52,200 ISK Level 10 requires strong devotion for your faction, only earned after 200 wins for that faction. Yup, but that's all only true because CCP screwed up and didn't implement an open player driven market FIRST. Because of that, you're figures are correct above. However in EVE Online where one person can earn LPs for FW, the FW loyalty point conversion is something like 4,000 ISK per 1 LP. So IF they had done that in DUST, then your 659 LP for winning a match would be approximately 2,636,000 ISK by virtue of selling FW items to other players. Again, CCP screws up in DUST 514 by not FULLY implementing all parts of a system. Just as not having all four races of rifles in the game from the get go caused all kinds of gameplay imbalance issues. So does implementing a new currency (LPs) before actually finishing the market for the first one (ISK). I predict the same for Lights and Heavys and their missing guns as with the additional two races worth of vehicle and turrets that are still missing. On another note, while looking up the worth of an LP in EVE I ran across this interesting article: http://www.penny-arcade.com/report/article/how-a-clever-player-with-a-useless-item-almost-took-down-eve-onlines-entire Your thoughts are good but your value is off, Most LP leans hard toward 700-2k isk / LP. Some market items stretch to 3k+ but higher return items tend to be coupled with lower sell volumes and/or unstable prices. Returning to your core thought, I have to agree. The original idea was to be able to pay Dust players from the Eve-end for things such as FW where the outcome matters, but the markets aren't even joined yet. ....at least they still have time to fix it before release. ;)
Lonegnr Ikomari-Onu Enforcement Caldari State 2	Posted - 2013.12.13 20:53:00 - [18] - Quote Aero Yassavi wrote: Please explain in further detail this magic that will make 1 LP = 4000 ISK. And do keep in mind 1 Dust LP is not the same as 1 EVE LP. I mean, the guys get 3000 LP just for dropping an OB. And if you do prove it, then why did CCP release this iteration of FW without a player market? I urged them to postpone it until the player market, and their exact words were "I don't think that'd be a good idea." I imagine he's assuming the same thing I do, that in theory isk and LP is one in the same across both games (though, that 4k figure is wayyy off). The problem is, CCP seems to have no idea how to handle the merge, which is why the markets aren't joined yet.
Jadd Hatchen Psygod9 D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 233	Posted - 2013.12.13 21:38:00 - [19] - Quote Aero Yassavi wrote: Please explain in further detail this magic that will make 1 LP = 4000 ISK. And do keep in mind 1 Dust LP is not the same as 1 EVE LP. I mean, the guys get 3000 LP just for dropping an OB. And if you do prove it, then why did CCP release this iteration of FW without a player market? I urged them to postpone it until the player market, and their exact words were "I don't think that'd be a good idea." I no that right NOW 1 DUST LP != to 1 EVE LP ... for the moment and only because CCP hasn't combined the markets of the two games yet. so by "accident" they currently have 6 different currency markets running now: EVE Aurum Dust Aurum EVE ISK Dust ISK EVE LP DUST LP Really dumb thing you did there CCP by not opening the player market in DUST and integrating it with EVE's.... Now you have to worry about the effects on 6 markets instead of only 2! Good luck with that! But back to the original questions... In EVE it costs like over 300 million ISK (or more) on the open market for a FW battleship. Now there are two ways to earn LPs - by working for a corporation; by working for FW. If you just run agent mission for an NPC corp, then you get the following: It costs something like 300k (or more) LPs plus you have to give them the original non-faction version of the battleship to be converted into the FW version (approx. another 100 million ISK or more). So the ISK profit for turning in LP for the FW ship is like over 300 million ISk. This turns out to be somewhere in the neighborhood of 600 ISK / 1 LP in profit. However in faction warfare there is warzone control tier and it's affects on LP purchasing power. Depending upon what warzone control tier your faction is at, the LP cost of an item is greatly reduced... So at tier 1 it might cost 1 billion LP to buy a ship, at tier 2 the same ship is not 500 million LP, at tier 3 it becomes 250 million LP, at tier 4 it's like 125 million LP, and at max of tier 5 it's only 62.5 million LP (for a FW battleship). So depending on the above plus the normal market supply and demand fluctuations, LP's for FW can end up worth in the thousands of ISK per point. As to why CCP did it this way? Well, first they are still afraid to combine ISK markets due to the fiasco that was the experiment in doing so back in beta testing. Hell to this day you can still find people selling DUST ISK for EVE ISK due to the disparity between the two. The fear is that the initial "shock" of rampant prices would push away the already low numbers of DUST players. Even though this needs to happen at first to eventually reach an "equilibrium" between the two and then move on from there. Why add in the FW LP store? Because they needed to revamp FW very badly and to make people want to play FW, they needed incentives. LP and the LP store is integral to motivating people to want to play in FW. So they couldn't really fix FW without also adding in LP. And now for sources if people want to look into this stuff themselves: https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Factional_Warfare http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/28659 http://www.gamerchick.net/2012/05/basic-warzone-control.html http://forum.eveuniversity.org/viewtopic.php?f=43&t=53541 http://www.ellatha.com/eve/LPIndex-Isk-121
Chunky Munkey Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 2614	Posted - 2013.12.13 21:43:00 - [20] - Quote Aero Yassavi wrote: Chunky Munkey wrote: LP prices do not scale up with their isk equivalents. Using one item to calculate an exchange rate is not going to work. You're better off comparing your average earnings from both kinds of game mode, and then calculating which items are the best value for money. It's not a perfect exchange rate, but it's a good enough reference to let you know that CCP has officially gone insane. When you factor in the exclusivity of the items, and many of their reduced skill requirements, these items may be well worth the effort. No.

Aero Yassavi Scions of Athra 4059	Posted - 2013.12.13 21:44:00 - [21] - Quote Chunky Munkey wrote: Aero Yassavi wrote: Chunky Munkey wrote: LP prices do not scale up with their isk equivalents. Using one item to calculate an exchange rate is not going to work. You're better off comparing your average earnings from both kinds of game mode, and then calculating which items are the best value for money. It's not a perfect exchange rate, but it's a good enough reference to let you know that CCP has officially gone insane. When you factor in the exclusivity of the items, and many of their reduced skill requirements, these items may be well worth the effort. You mean lower skill requirements for the large sum of people who already spent the skill points? If that is going to be your argument, then we need a full respec so we can take advantages of the only think that may make it worth the effort. Angels of vengeance, angels of mercy, scions of Athra. Amarr Victor
mollerz Minja Scouts 1313	Posted - 2013.12.13 21:46:00 - [22] - Quote Lonegnr wrote: Aero Yassavi wrote: Please explain in further detail this magic that will make 1 LP = 4000 ISK. And do keep in mind 1 Dust LP is not the same as 1 EVE LP. I mean, the guys get 3000 LP just for dropping an OB. And if you do prove it, then why did CCP release this iteration of FW without a player market? I urged them to postpone it until the player market, and their exact words were "I don't think that'd be a good idea." I imagine he's assuming the same thing I do, that in theory isk and LP is one in the same across both games (though, that 4k figure is wayyy off). The problem is, CCP seems to have no idea how to handle the merge, which is why the markets aren't joined yet. There will be so much money to be made in the first few weeks. I'm working on becoming a 3rd level dust billionaire. #shittycoding
Chunky Munkey Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 2615	Posted - 2013.12.13 21:49:00 - [23] - Quote Aero Yassavi wrote: Chunky Munkey wrote: Aero Yassavi wrote: Chunky Munkey wrote: LP prices do not scale up with their isk equivalents. Using one item to calculate an exchange rate is not going to work. You're better off comparing your average earnings from both kinds of game mode, and then calculating which items are the best value for money. It's not a perfect exchange rate, but it's a good enough reference to let you know that CCP has officially gone insane. When you factor in the exclusivity of the items, and many of their reduced skill requirements, these items may be well worth the effort. You mean lower skill requirements for the large sum of people who already spent the skill points? If that is going to be your argument, then we need a full respec so we can take advantages of the only think that may make it worth the effort. What? No.


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