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FW Standings and LP Payout

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Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. Public Disorder. 2263	Posted - 2013.12.13 14:30:00 - [1] - Quote I've heard some fantastic numbers like 10s of 1,000s of LP per match if you reach Level 10 standings. However Fox Four in this post bummer says that it caps at around 651 LP at Level 10. I wanted to point that out here in case some people were expecting for the grinding of matches and the sinking of ISK to actually be worth it. If anything this just means that you can fight for all the factions without worrying about your standings. Who cares if 100s of wins don't really affect your payout all that much? Remove time in battle from ISK payout formula and provide a bonus to winning team... Watch battles become fun again.
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. Public Disorder. 2265	Posted - 2013.12.13 14:43:00 - [2] - Quote 4447 wrote: Thor Odinson42 wrote: I've heard some fantastic numbers like 10s of 1,000s of LP per match if you reach Level 10 standings. However Fox Four in this post bummer says that it caps at around 651 LP at Level 10. I wanted to point that out here in case some people were expecting for the grinding of matches and the sinking of ISK to actually be worth it. If anything this just means that you can fight for all the factions without worrying about your standings. Who cares if 100s of wins don't really affect your payout all that much? Why do the graph show 40,000LP at level 10 Fox Four said he changed the graph Remove time in battle from ISK payout formula and provide a bonus to winning team... Watch battles become fun again.
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. Public Disorder. 2267	Posted - 2013.12.13 14:49:00 - [3] - Quote 4447 wrote: Thor Odinson42 wrote: 4447 wrote: Thor Odinson42 wrote: I've heard some fantastic numbers like 10s of 1,000s of LP per match if you reach Level 10 standings. However Fox Four in this post bummer says that it caps at around 651 LP at Level 10. I wanted to point that out here in case some people were expecting for the grinding of matches and the sinking of ISK to actually be worth it. If anything this just means that you can fight for all the factions without worrying about your standings. Who cares if 100s of wins don't really affect your payout all that much? Why do the graph show 40,000LP at level 10 Fox Four said he changed the graph It's still there, have a look. Edit, I was only playing FW for 40,000LP now it isn't worth it. Follow my link, Fox Four said he changed the numbers. I doubt he updated the Dev blog Remove time in battle from ISK payout formula and provide a bonus to winning team... Watch battles become fun again.
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. Public Disorder. 2272	Posted - 2013.12.13 15:36:00 - [4] - Quote Kane confirmed that the numbers were lowered and he's poking Fox Four to try and get some real numbers Remove time in battle from ISK payout formula and provide a bonus to winning team... Watch battles become fun again.
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. Public Disorder. 2274	Posted - 2013.12.13 15:40:00 - [5] - Quote Cyrius Li-Moody wrote: Well, there is now really no reason for me to actually play FW unless my alliances asks me to or I need a specialist combat rifle. Jesus. Lose most likely 6 to 7 suits per match to afford 1 through LP? Yeah no thanks. The first numbers were high and looked promising for grind/risk involved but now I'm wondering, whats the point when everything dies so fast? I realize they wanted to put in an isk sink but this is more like an ISK blackhole with little to no incentive to actually play. Perhaps they secretly hate FPS players. Eve FW is sooo easy to grind LP if you don't mind orbiting around a button for 20 minutes. I truly don't get it, I was bragging on CCP for the LP store and being surprised the prices were low enough to make the grind worth it. I agree with the poster above that said the Level 10 numbers seemed too high but 10s of 1000s down to 651???? Remove time in battle from ISK payout formula and provide a bonus to winning team... Watch battles become fun again.
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. Public Disorder. 2274	Posted - 2013.12.13 15:43:00 - [6] - Quote Spectral Clone wrote: Hmm.... lets wait and see if FW is worth it. I'm not sure I understand what you are saying. Wait for what? Someone to reach Level 10 to see if they were just joking about the low payout? Remove time in battle from ISK payout formula and provide a bonus to winning team... Watch battles become fun again.
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. Public Disorder. 2274	Posted - 2013.12.13 15:54:00 - [7] - Quote Spectral Clone wrote: Thor Odinson42 wrote: Spectral Clone wrote: Hmm.... lets wait and see if FW is worth it. I'm not sure I understand what you are saying. Wait for what? Someone to reach Level 10 to see if they were just joking about the low payout? Waiting for SoxFours new numbers. He will post them later. I don't think even 5000 LP would be worth the ISK sink. The 651 is more in line with the rewards they give for their events. I'm honestly not surprised that they changed it to a crappy payout. Anything to make sure there is little incentive to fight hard seems to be the mantra. Remove time in battle from ISK payout formula and provide a bonus to winning team... Watch battles become fun again.
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. Public Disorder. 2275	Posted - 2013.12.13 16:04:00 - [8] - Quote Cyrius Li-Moody wrote: Thor Odinson42 wrote: Cyrius Li-Moody wrote: Well, there is now really no reason for me to actually play FW unless my alliances asks me to or I need a specialist combat rifle. Jesus. Lose most likely 6 to 7 suits per match to afford 1 through LP? Yeah no thanks. The first numbers were high and looked promising for grind/risk involved but now I'm wondering, whats the point when everything dies so fast? I realize they wanted to put in an isk sink but this is more like an ISK blackhole with little to no incentive to actually play. Perhaps they secretly hate FPS players. Eve FW is sooo easy to grind LP if you don't mind orbiting around a button for 20 minutes. I truly don't get it, I was bragging on CCP for the LP store and being surprised the prices were low enough to make the grind worth it. I agree with the poster above that said the Level 10 numbers seemed too high but 10s of 1000s down to 651???? I mean really, at what point is this supposed to be rewarding for the dust player? All we're doing is dirty work for EVE capsuleers by keeping their bonuses up. Some might say "oh a market will surely make this better." Sorry but I'm still failing to see how the 2 combat rifles I can score from a victory at max standings are going to make this worth playing and not cost my corp millions of isk just to get to the point where I can score those two combat rifles. A high potential LP payout could lead to loyalty to factions, a willingness to invest ISK into battles, and hard fought battles. This mythical need for an ISK sink needs to be squashed. Remove time in battle from ISK payout formula and provide a bonus to winning team... Watch battles become fun again.
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. Public Disorder. 2276	Posted - 2013.12.13 16:10:00 - [9] - Quote Jarod Garamonde Jr wrote: Thor Odinson42 wrote: Spectral Clone wrote: Thor Odinson42 wrote: Spectral Clone wrote: Hmm.... lets wait and see if FW is worth it. I'm not sure I understand what you are saying. Wait for what? Someone to reach Level 10 to see if they were just joking about the low payout? Waiting for SoxFours new numbers. He will post them later. I don't think even 5000 LP would be worth the ISK sink. The 651 is more in line with the rewards they give for their events. I'm honestly not surprised that they changed it to a crappy payout. Anything to make sure there is little incentive to fight hard seems to be the mantra. Everything in DUST is an ISK Sink. Until we can trade on the market like we can in EVE, that's how it is. I don't think you understand how the sink/faucet concept works... I fully understand how it works. I've been campaigning for more incentives for people to actually fight hard in matches for a long time. There are three groups of players that have lots of ISK: 1) the top 1% who are successful in PC 2) BPO/**** gear grinders 3) AFK grinders People who fight hard in matches make pennies on the dollar just because they like to fight in FPS games (weird right). The mythical need for an ISK sink is driving this LP nerf (before it was ever released). What's bad is that was a ninja nerf. People have been grinding away, fretting over being kicked, and freaking out that their standings weren't increasing payouts ALL for nothing. Remove time in battle from ISK payout formula and provide a bonus to winning team... Watch battles become fun again.
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. Public Disorder. 2276	Posted - 2013.12.13 16:13:00 - [10] - Quote Morathi III wrote: Thor Odinson42 wrote: Cyrius Li-Moody wrote: Thor Odinson42 wrote: Cyrius Li-Moody wrote: Well, there is now really no reason for me to actually play FW unless my alliances asks me to or I need a specialist combat rifle. Jesus. Lose most likely 6 to 7 suits per match to afford 1 through LP? Yeah no thanks. The first numbers were high and looked promising for grind/risk involved but now I'm wondering, whats the point when everything dies so fast? I realize they wanted to put in an isk sink but this is more like an ISK blackhole with little to no incentive to actually play. Perhaps they secretly hate FPS players. Eve FW is sooo easy to grind LP if you don't mind orbiting around a button for 20 minutes. I truly don't get it, I was bragging on CCP for the LP store and being surprised the prices were low enough to make the grind worth it. I agree with the poster above that said the Level 10 numbers seemed too high but 10s of 1000s down to 651???? I mean really, at what point is this supposed to be rewarding for the dust player? All we're doing is dirty work for EVE capsuleers by keeping their bonuses up. Some might say "oh a market will surely make this better." Sorry but I'm still failing to see how the 2 combat rifles I can score from a victory at max standings are going to make this worth playing and not cost my corp millions of isk just to get to the point where I can score those two combat rifles. A high potential LP payout could lead to loyalty to factions, a willingness to invest ISK into battles, and hard fought battles. This mythical need for an ISK sink needs to be squashed. FW is very usefull for rich player to get advantage by having less fitting cost weapon, the reality is the rich will fight for the faction only for the weapon low CPU/PG cost, they will not care which faction is , they will care for the weapon they use But with this information wouldn't the rich player be better off just waiting for the player market and buying the weapons you speak of with ISK? Remove time in battle from ISK payout formula and provide a bonus to winning team... Watch battles become fun again.

Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. Public Disorder. 2276	Posted - 2013.12.13 16:17:00 - [11] - Quote Everything Dies wrote: Doesn't seem right. Won my first Gallente FW match last night alongside some heavy hitters (Djinn Marauder/Andy Waffle and their respective squads) and came in second for our side (third or fourth overall) and pulled in 300+ LP. My WP was only 785 for the match, if I recall correctly. Needless to say, I'm level 0 in terms of standing, so I find it odd that I'd be able to get 50% or so of the max LP with ten more levels to go and, to be honest, a fairly average WP haul. I'm at L2 and I haven't gotten over 410 with a booster Remove time in battle from ISK payout formula and provide a bonus to winning team... Watch battles become fun again.
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. Public Disorder. 2278	Posted - 2013.12.13 16:20:00 - [12] - Quote Morathi III wrote: @Thor, you can only buy them in the loyalty market if im correct For now, the player market is coming soon. They'd hoped to have it released with FW 2.0. Remove time in battle from ISK payout formula and provide a bonus to winning team... Watch battles become fun again.
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. Public Disorder. 2278	Posted - 2013.12.13 16:28:00 - [13] - Quote Takahiro Kashuken wrote: In EVE FW lvl4 missions can give me 20k LP per mission and easily upto 2mil ISK reward to boot Just another example of how easy it is to grind ISK in Eve vs Dust. The AFK and cheap suit grinders have severely clouded the judgement of CCP in regards to the need of an ISK sink. They literally have no idea how to incentivize high intensity action. I could honestly give two ***** if everybody ran proto 24/7 if it meant more FUN matches. But it doesn't have to be that way. There has to be a way to profit in this game and run decent gear while maintaining a 2.0 KDR. At the moment that simply isn't possible. FW seemed to be a possible avenue for this if the L10 standings were high enough. Remove time in battle from ISK payout formula and provide a bonus to winning team... Watch battles become fun again.
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. Public Disorder. 2278	Posted - 2013.12.13 16:31:00 - [14] - Quote NAV HIV wrote: Thor Odinson42 wrote: I've heard some fantastic numbers like 10s of 1,000s of LP per match if you reach Level 10 standings. However Fox Four in this post bummer says that it caps at around 651 LP at Level 10. I wanted to point that out here in case some people were expecting for the grinding of matches and the sinking of ISK to actually be worth it. If anything this just means that you can fight for all the factions without worrying about your standings. Who cares if 100s of wins don't really affect your payout all that much? I play for caldari. Which means i usually go against organized Gal And Min squads. LP points for losig a match is 75. 400 + if i win the match. Not going to win the match against organized groups by wearing BPO gear when they are running fully loaded gear. I went 23-7 last night against two full squads of known CORPs. I was revived twice. So that win Cost me 600k ISK. What did i gain out of that, other than the satisfaction of beating those players?! 400 + LP with booster. Is it enough to pay for my loses?! I dont think so. Preach on brother, people need to have burn Jita levels of rage toward this. FW is the opportunity to make Dust what he hoped it would be. We can't let them screw this up. Remove time in battle from ISK payout formula and provide a bonus to winning team... Watch battles become fun again.
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. Public Disorder. 2279	Posted - 2013.12.13 16:40:00 - [15] - Quote NAV HIV wrote: Thor Odinson42 wrote: NAV HIV wrote: Thor Odinson42 wrote: I've heard some fantastic numbers like 10s of 1,000s of LP per match if you reach Level 10 standings. However Fox Four in this post bummer says that it caps at around 651 LP at Level 10. I wanted to point that out here in case some people were expecting for the grinding of matches and the sinking of ISK to actually be worth it. If anything this just means that you can fight for all the factions without worrying about your standings. Who cares if 100s of wins don't really affect your payout all that much? I play for caldari. Which means i usually go against organized Gal And Min squads. LP points for losig a match is 75. 400 + if i win the match. Not going to win the match against organized groups by wearing BPO gear when they are running fully loaded gear. I went 23-7 last night against two full squads of known CORPs. I was revived twice. So that win Cost me 600k ISK. What did i gain out of that, other than the satisfaction of beating those players?! 400 + LP with booster. Is it enough to pay for my loses?! I dont think so. Preach on brother, people need to have burn Jita levels of rage toward this. FW is the opportunity to make Dust what he hoped it would be. We can't let them screw this up. If they give us 1000 LP for win and then booster Bonus, then it's worth it, considering the Rewards. It won't be that much of a gain. But it is still better than a Total Loss To me it has to be higher to provide the incentives for people to fight hard, stay loyal to a faction, and potentially profit. They need to understand that an ISK sink is not necessary. Remove time in battle from ISK payout formula and provide a bonus to winning team... Watch battles become fun again.
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. Public Disorder. 2282	Posted - 2013.12.13 16:54:00 - [16] - Quote Doc Noah wrote: Well if you run pure ADV fits it is kinda sustainable, if you're good enough to limit your deaths in a proto suit to 0-1 then it's sustainable. With that being said, the new numbers are depressing. Looks like I'll reconsider rushing to lvl 10. You can only die in a pub match 2x in a proto to break even most of the time, 5 or 6 times in a good ADV suit. That's where i'm going with the 2.0 KDR. 10-5 in ADV gear in pubs is going to net you 20-100K in most matches where a guy going 0-0 with 0 WP is going to net 180K. With DEV blog LP payouts at max standings you had the opportunity to actually fight in good gear and earn some ISK (when player market is released). Now it's just another ISK sink that will promote passive game play. Remove time in battle from ISK payout formula and provide a bonus to winning team... Watch battles become fun again.
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. Public Disorder. 2284	Posted - 2013.12.13 17:00:00 - [17] - Quote Reav Hannari wrote: A quick analysis on LP earnings versus suit costs: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1605692#post1605692 Good post! I can't corroborate your numbers but at least it outs there for people to work off of. Hopefully someone smarter than I am can look at some potential long term investment type scenarios there based on a guy going 10-5 running a 50K suit. Remove time in battle from ISK payout formula and provide a bonus to winning team... Watch battles become fun again.
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. Public Disorder. 2284	Posted - 2013.12.13 17:02:00 - [18] - Quote Alaika Arbosa wrote: IMHO, LP payout should be calculated based on your performance in the match. (Your Standing1000) should be the cap and to assure better pay for higher standings characters, the minimum should be (Your Standing100). Ex: Standing level 0 should be paid purely on Standings increase. Standing level 4 would payout somewhere between 400 and 4000 LP. I don't mind it being just standing based because it allows for lower and mid level players to not get left behind. It COULD give them a place to lay it all out there with their good gear and earn an income. People are still going to do pubs because they can knock out more matches and cap out faster. This shouldn't be part of the equation. Remove time in battle from ISK payout formula and provide a bonus to winning team... Watch battles become fun again.
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. Public Disorder. 2284	Posted - 2013.12.13 17:04:00 - [19] - Quote Morathi III wrote: Thor Odinson42 wrote: Doc Noah wrote: Well if you run pure ADV fits it is kinda sustainable, if you're good enough to limit your deaths in a proto suit to 0-1 then it's sustainable. With that being said, the new numbers are depressing. Looks like I'll reconsider rushing to lvl 10. You can only die in a pub match 2x in a proto to break even most of the time, 5 or 6 times in a good ADV suit. That's where i'm going with the 2.0 KDR. 10-5 in ADV gear in pubs is going to net you 20-100K in most matches where a guy going 0-0 with 0 WP is going to net 180K. With DEV blog LP payouts at max standings you had the opportunity to actually fight in good gear and earn some ISK (when player market is released). Now it's just another ISK sink that will promote passive game play. I feel they try to segrate ( protostomper ) will go play FW for the proto gun with less fitting cost to the normal player ( STD-ADV ) for who that just been an isk sink to go in FW and stay in regular pub match, in mid term that give the game more enjoyable for the new- poor or who those dislike protostomping in pub I think it could certainly become that if the incentives are good enough. Matchmaking through cause and effect instead of some elaborate code. Remove time in battle from ISK payout formula and provide a bonus to winning team... Watch battles become fun again.
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. Public Disorder. 2284	Posted - 2013.12.13 17:17:00 - [20] - Quote Morathi III wrote: Thor Odinson42 wrote: Morathi III wrote: Thor Odinson42 wrote: Doc Noah wrote: Well if you run pure ADV fits it is kinda sustainable, if you're good enough to limit your deaths in a proto suit to 0-1 then it's sustainable. With that being said, the new numbers are depressing. Looks like I'll reconsider rushing to lvl 10. You can only die in a pub match 2x in a proto to break even most of the time, 5 or 6 times in a good ADV suit. That's where i'm going with the 2.0 KDR. 10-5 in ADV gear in pubs is going to net you 20-100K in most matches where a guy going 0-0 with 0 WP is going to net 180K. With DEV blog LP payouts at max standings you had the opportunity to actually fight in good gear and earn some ISK (when player market is released). Now it's just another ISK sink that will promote passive game play. I feel they try to segrate ( protostomper ) will go play FW for the proto gun with less fitting cost to the normal player ( STD-ADV ) for who that just been an isk sink to go in FW and stay in regular pub match, in mid term that give the game more enjoyable for the new- poor or who those dislike protostomping in pub I think it could certainly become that if the incentives are good enough. Matchmaking through cause and effect instead of some elaborate code. If the incentive are too good and they open player market, some new player will see a place to make money and just afk in FW to sell these precious weapon to the rich easily instead of going themselves in FW and they can continue protostomp in regular match so still discourage new player I agree, but this is the opposite of too good. They just updated the Dev blog. It's 659 for L10 standings 823.75 with a booster Remove time in battle from ISK payout formula and provide a bonus to winning team... Watch battles become fun again.

Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. Public Disorder. 2284	Posted - 2013.12.13 17:18:00 - [21] - Quote Terram Nenokal wrote: My desire to win matches, or even play FW is pretty much gone with this news. I was throwing proto suits into the meat grinder to secure a win, but now I think I'll just stick to pubs and PC. Maybe if there was better faction gear that wasn't just aur gear for LP, it would be worth it. Right now the only thing I get any use out of is the specialist Duvolle because I'm fully skilled into everything else. Otherwise the only reason to grind LP is to build a cheaper suit using LP gear instead of standard ISK bought gear. Yes, this will kill the enthusiasm people had for FW. Remove time in battle from ISK payout formula and provide a bonus to winning team... Watch battles become fun again.
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. Public Disorder. 2285	Posted - 2013.12.13 17:19:00 - [22] - Quote Reav Hannari wrote: Thor Odinson42 wrote: Reav Hannari wrote: A quick analysis on LP earnings versus suit costs: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1605692#post1605692 Good post! I can't corroborate your numbers but at least it outs there for people to work off of. Hopefully someone smarter than I am can look at some potential long term investment type scenarios there based on a guy going 10-5 running a 50K suit. The costs are for two suits I've started working on specifically for FW using LP I've gained so far. I'm curious how other factions and roles compare to my own. I'm really irritated about the lack of less than prototype combat rifles considering the other factions have theirs available. With this news it won't matter. Why not just fight for all of them to get the gear you need? It's not worth grinding your standings up so just fight like 5 consecutive matches for each and keep rotating. Remove time in battle from ISK payout formula and provide a bonus to winning team... Watch battles become fun again.
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. Public Disorder. 2311	Posted - 2013.12.13 19:12:00 - [23] - Quote Alaika Arbosa wrote: Thor Odinson42 wrote: Alaika Arbosa wrote: IMHO, LP payout should be calculated based on your performance in the match. (Your Standing1000) should be the cap and to assure better pay for higher standings characters, the minimum should be (Your Standing100). Ex: Standing level 0 should be paid purely on Standings increase. Standing level 4 would payout somewhere between 400 and 4000 LP. I don't mind it being just standing based because it allows for lower and mid level players to not get left behind. It COULD give them a place to lay it all out there with their good gear and earn an income. People are still going to do pubs because they can knock out more matches and cap out faster. This shouldn't be part of the equation. Well, honestly, I was figuring that it would still be impacted by performance in the match (ie WP), just that the range of your payout would scale with Standings. The reasoning I was thinking for 0 LP at Standing 0 would be to simulate you proving yourself to the Faction before they start opening their coffers for you. I would also imagine that we'd be impacted by the FW tiers for Eve. I'm always up for more LP for better performance, I agree with that. But this issue needs to be addressed first. Remove time in battle from ISK payout formula and provide a bonus to winning team... Watch battles become fun again.
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. Public Disorder. 2311	Posted - 2013.12.13 19:14:00 - [24] - Quote Morathi III wrote: I understand your point Thor, not sure which one is best honestly, your point is valid for corp like yours where the player not necesserly own 100 millions isk by player and are involved in PC so that can be a isks sink for them of course, its normal you seem concerned about this subject We could do it, we have a lot of ISK. A corp like mine is not the one to be concerned about. The solo players and small corps have a place to take their game to a higher level and CCP wants to limit that. That is absolutely, positively insane. It would be like an amusement park only opening the most popular ride once a week during summertime. It is so stupid and misguided that it's really difficult to see their reasoning. Remove time in battle from ISK payout formula and provide a bonus to winning team... Watch battles become fun again.
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. Public Disorder. 2311	Posted - 2013.12.13 19:16:00 - [25] - Quote Nirwanda Vaughns wrote: Just further proof of my theory that CCP are trying to drive out the playerbase and close dust 'on good terms' it just feels they've run the numbers and seen its not worth the hassle and so they gradually run players out so they have a great reason to close the server down due to lack of player interst. if they just closed the servers stating its not worth it anymore there would be a huge lpayer backlash and probable legal action due to fans feelign ripped off. as for FW i'm just afk'in it atm. i don't lose any isk. i still get salvage and sp as well as standing and LP if i win or a lower amoutn of lp if we dont win. if anyoen kills me for afk i punish them to a point they get kicked and banned while i sit happily farming all them lovely LPs Don't AFK, it throws off their numbers. They assume that all the players that AFK in pubs are rich because their isn't enough ISK sinks. Remove time in battle from ISK payout formula and provide a bonus to winning team... Watch battles become fun again.