|
|
| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Tebu Gan
Dem Durrty Boyz
Renegade Alliance
290
   |
Posted - 2013.12.13 13:29:00 -
[1] - Quote
I think a lot of the problems lay with milita tanks, soma's and sica's.
In every single match, you almost always see a tank. Most every tank kill I make is a milita HAV. Most every loss of my tank is to a milita tank. These things are highly effective, and taking away one slot does not reduce combat efficiency significantly.
It bothers me really, when a milia tank blows me up. It seems crazy to me that one would have such high resistances when compared to the supposedly bigger brother. Given, the mods don't last as long, and have huge cooldowns, but thats irrelevant when you have something as cheap as a milita tank. Oh you lost it, oh well, let's call in another one. It will cost you less than a proto suit, and can be twice as effective.
I put all my tank SP back into tanks. I wanted to be effective at tanking. But clearly it hardly matters. Milita tanks require no SP into vehicles, are cheap, and still remain effective. Before I laughed when someone pulled out a milita HAV. I gots SP into tanks, that soma isn't going to cut it. Well now they do.
Like I said, they are CHEAP and require no skills to use. They are fast, and still push out the same resistance, just for a shorter window of time.
To put in infantry's perspective, it's like a fresh char, going into their first game with something between a ADV and PRO weapon/suit, when they don't have the skills necessary to use your version of the weapon. In this instance, the suit is immune to small arms fire. WIth a hardener up, it's immune to anything but a rail gun!
And it requires no skills to use.
I called in several tanks for squadmates, tanking noobs, and the bastards lived. They came back near the end and had me recall the tanks! Before 1.7 this was unheard of. It took a bit of skill to make a tank last a whole match. But they have put tanks into easy mode!
Everyone complained that swarmers were stupid, and too easy to use. That is now how I feel about tanks!
A LOT of AV are complaining about tanks. And I can totally understand why.
Every match has several tanks
Most all of these tanks are milita
AV are complaining about being unable to kill milita tanks (as I see it).
I really wonder, why does a milita HAV have to nearly be on par with a STD tank with PRO mods and Weapon?
Tanks 514 was cool and all, but the nostalgia is wearing off. Tanking seems brainlessly easy now. I'm actually bored again lol.
Nuff Said
|
Tebu Gan
Dem Durrty Boyz
Renegade Alliance
290
|
Posted - 2013.12.13 13:42:00 -
[2] - Quote
Jack McReady wrote:finally another honest tank driver that gets the point. I am really tired to argue with all the biased tunnelvision tank pilots.
for 100k isk I can run a tank that is very hard to take down by infantry and practically immune to infantry when I pay attention. all I have to do is evade other tanks, esp. rail tanks.
I had an exchange with a Sica rail.
We had both just crested the top of a hill, we saw each other, and our hardeners lit up. It was an equal exchange of fire, shot for shot. He had a booster as well, but so did I (plus a damage mod). IT was close. Close as in 2 or 3 more shot's would have done me in.
It surprised me when it lit up in the kill feed as a Milita HAV. And here I am running proto everything, thinking I'm somthing, LOL.
If he had got a drop on me, things might have turned out differently.
Nuff Said
|
Tebu Gan
Dem Durrty Boyz
Renegade Alliance
294
|
Posted - 2013.12.13 16:38:00 -
[3] - Quote
Takahiro Kashuken wrote:I use militia BPO gear to get the drop and kill proto suits is that OP?
No, but in the given situation, you are also not immune to small arms fire. The differences are indisputable.
Nuff Said
|
Tebu Gan
Dem Durrty Boyz
Renegade Alliance
294
|
Posted - 2013.12.13 16:53:00 -
[4] - Quote
Flix Keptick wrote:I agree, 80% of the tanks I encounter right now are militia. While easy to kill the certainly are anoying
Makes it very hard on infantry. I've blown up my fair share, but when you have 4 tanks on the other side, all milita, you are going to have a bad time.
The best counter is to have tanks out yourself.
Drop milita tanks down a peg or two, IE, the hardener strength, and you won't be seeing as many tanks out.
Milita may drop like nothing to my rails, but to an infantry, the things invincible, and still very FAST.
Nuff Said
|
Tebu Gan
Dem Durrty Boyz
Renegade Alliance
294
|
Posted - 2013.12.13 17:09:00 -
[5] - Quote
daishi mk03 wrote:Wait, wait, wait. You "tankers" cried like b**** over the last 6 months that AV was too strong. It was a bit too strong, but I loved the fights.
Now, after they made tanks imbalanced and due to this absolutely boring, you cry again. You cry because a MLT tank with half the uptime of a Gunnlogi/Madrugar kills you, while your modules are on CD. Are you effing kidding me? You have more uptime and less CD and you still manage to die vs the MLT tank.
Sorry ... there is no help out there for you.
Thanks troll, your tears are delicious.
Your post is hardly constructive, as that is what I am looking for here, something constructive. Crying about losing to milita tanks? It is very rare, but yes it happens. You clearly do not tank yourself.
The problem I brought about was not just about me, though for me it's the fact that a miltia that requires no SP, is actually VERY effective, to the point I would compare them to a proto suit. Yes it bothers me that someone with no SP into tanks, calls in a very cheap tank, and destroys. No experience needed, just turn on the hardener and hide in the redline while you wait for CD. Hell why bother with waiting for CD, just call in another one. And it will hardly cost you an isk.
Tankers like myself, are in a good spot when it comes to milita tanks. But when everyone and their mother is calling in milita tanks, things get a little crazy. For tanks AND infantry. And I can only be so many places at one time. Can't kill them all.
Infantry is getting screwed over a lot, and a lot of it is due to skilless Miltia HAV's. Why call in a suit really? You can probably get a better KDR(if you care about that) in a milta tank. Plus you are immune to small arms fire, and it's cheaper than a lot of suits.
As to you daishi, most every post I've ever seen from you is senseless and useless. I have to ask you to respect my own opinions and views, and quit the senseless bashing. You are doing no good here.
And yes, I wanted a rebalance for tanks. My gunnlogi just was not on par with a maddie. Tanks were in a decent place pre 1.7, those that were skilled with them, could really do a lot with them. I was against the full rebalance as it sounded highly unnecessary. But I'm not the one calling shots, and when CCP changes something, I don't argue.
I adapt
Nuff Said
|
Tebu Gan
Dem Durrty Boyz
Renegade Alliance
294
|
Posted - 2013.12.13 17:13:00 -
[6] - Quote
AP Grasshopper wrote:Tebu Gan wrote:Takahiro Kashuken wrote:I use militia BPO gear to get the drop and kill proto suits is that OP? No, but in the given situation, you are also not immune to small arms fire. The differences are indisputable. Dropsuits are immune to swarm launchers, AV grenades and hard to hit with rail tanks. OP
How does this further the conversation?
Nuff Said
|
Tebu Gan
Dem Durrty Boyz
Renegade Alliance
294
|
Posted - 2013.12.13 17:17:00 -
[7] - Quote
Pokey Dravon wrote:I have all shields and armor maxed out and run standard tanks with Enhanced and Complex modules. As long as the enemy keeps feeding me Militia HAVs to melt, I will completely ignore infantry. Why kill men when you can slay gods?
Psh, milita tanks are not gods!
I actually went missiles and rails. So my only purpose is to kill other tanks.
The tanks battles have been fun, this I cannot deny.
Nuff Said
|
Tebu Gan
Dem Durrty Boyz
Renegade Alliance
294
|
Posted - 2013.12.13 19:31:00 -
[8] - Quote
Bojo The Mighty wrote:This, at it's root, is all about the Nitro. When they fix nitro, I think we will see a steady drop in HAVs.
Still the natural speed is already very fast. I saw a dev post mentioning they will probably be tweaking the values on injectors, as well as the natural speed of both tanks.
Speed, is what it seems tanks needed more than anything. That is the biggest part of the current tanks ability to survive. Yes milita was bugged (Pretty sure it is fixed now), but I keep sayin, tanks are still FAST. With a complex fuel injector, I fly.
Agreed though that speed, may be one of the biggest issues facing AV atm.
Nuff Said
|
Tebu Gan
Dem Durrty Boyz
Renegade Alliance
295
|
Posted - 2013.12.13 20:27:00 -
[9] - Quote
daishi mk03 wrote:Tebu Gan wrote: whargl whargl You can have as many tears as you want, if you continue to post such funny thread like this. Since you didn't realized it: I am the only one here giving you constructive input. The difference between a full spec'ed tank and a MLT tank w/o SP is FAR greater, than between a 0 SP infantry MLT suit and a proto suit. Spec'ed armor tanks got one hardener more, shield tanks 1 booster / 1 hardener / 1 dmg mod than their MLT counterpart. Together with skills this equals 2.5x the uptime and far less downtime. Just to cite from your OP "It bothers me really, when a milia tank blows me up." Yeah, sure, you're not mad. SORRY YOU DIDN'T REALIZE IT, but MLT and skilled tanks differ in there efficiency, not their effectivity. People like you destroy this game. Constant crying which leads to bulls*** every patch. Tank mechanics were fine, shield tanks needed a buff (booster like now, better hardener) and AV needed a slight dmg nerf. (not talking about DS or LAVs) We had wonderful battles, month after month. Now the new tanks resemble dropsuit battles, and still it's okay, and still you cry. **** this "MLT kills me crap". A [Starter] fit with AR kills a proto in half a clip ... much faster than my 2 dmg mod rail sica any other tank now. Stop this crap, once and for all. Stop. Just stop.
Yes, constantly insulting throughout both of your posts, is not constructive. You HAVE to be 11 or 12. No way you could be a teenager yet (yeah got to insult back lol). Hmmmm troll tears. Should be good for a few days now, thanks fella.
I find it funny that you would consider me "crying". But did you really expect tanks to be perfect? I saw no harm in actively trying to start some sort of discussion, so that I may see it from different perspectives. Good feedback from others has been changing my idea's on where the problem lies.
Yes fella, I fully understand the differences between the different tiers of modules, std, adv, and pro.
I understand (and have for a while now) that tanks are very focused on Uptime and Downtime between modules.
I understand that a milita has a much smaller window of defense, and a very long cooldown.
No, I don't disagree here, the differences are huge, when looked at from the time perspective. And I've destroyed a huge number of milita tanks in just a short amount of time, simply because they can't outlast my hardener. Yes, I hate getting destroyed by a milita tank. I always think, "man, I'm better than that". No man, I CAN accept the fact that a milita can stand a chance(if they get the jump on me), still bugs me though!
But yes, I do feel the hardeners, shouldn't be pushing out 60% on resists. Just my opinion on it. Still need to play with tanks a lot more to form a more detailed picture, but that was my first thought.
I know I put it from my standpoint, but it's the infantry struggling atm, that's where my real focus is. Why are they having such a hard time?
Are resists too high for AV damage
Are they too fast for AV to hit (Don't doubt a lot of it is here)
Why are there so many tanks being called in? (aside from, oh tanks just changed, yeah but why are infantry complaining about being unable to kill a milita tank!)
See questions.
I also have to say, I'm sorry man. I'm sorry I ruined your day. I'm sorry that I am inadvertently destroying this game. Man, you got some rage issues lol.
New tanks resemble dropsuit battles, meh. Tank battles are far more Epic than that.
But man, I guess you are right I'm just "crying". And everyone that complains of ultra fast tank speed is crying as well. Every thing is fine and balanced. Everyone go home now!
Be well, Fella.
Nuff Said
|
Tebu Gan
Dem Durrty Boyz
Renegade Alliance
295
|
Posted - 2013.12.13 20:34:00 -
[10] - Quote
InsertCoinHere wrote:daishi mk03 wrote:You have more uptime and less CD and you still manage to die vs the MLT tank.
Sorry ... there is no help out there for you. dang, you told him........
Dang he did didn't he!
Here they go, completely changing the way tanks work. 3 days into it, I've lost a few tanks to MLT.
Must be because I suck. (shhhh don't tell anyone)
lol
Nuff Said
|
|
|
Tebu Gan
Dem Durrty Boyz
Renegade Alliance
298
|
Posted - 2013.12.13 21:39:00 -
[11] - Quote
Doshneil Antaro wrote:Sorry but mlt vs std tanks is fine. My alt is a pure tanker, but with only mid sp. To fit a really good survivable tank, I dump it all into core tanking skills. I left out the mass sp waste of std tanks, do to the fact it is so much sp for just 1 more slot and some cpu/pg. There is just no real incentive for me to drop points into it.
A zero sp mlt tank is garbage, and I have taken down 2-3 at a time like butter. They cannot fit much of anything besides mlt scanner or nitro. If I had the sp for std tanks, I highly doubt I'd ever lose one but to the best tankers in the game (that is if there are any actually left). Just because you dump sp into std tanks does not entitle you to God mode above mlt.
The true issues is that tanks are just too fast for conventional AV, and at times to other tanks as well. Remove nitro, or tune them down. 10% increase is all that they should offer, with longer cool downs. 60 sec for mlt, 30 for proto. Not sure if more than one canbe stacked but they sh be 1 per only.
I also suggest that swarms revert back to their old damage of 1.6 but keep range for now. After that is altered, we can look at possibly reducing tanks base speed first, swarm range 2nd. I like the idea that AV has to do more chasing down tanks, not just sit uncounterable up high somewhere to instapop tanks. That is why tanks were reworked in the first one place. This also gives the lav a purpose for existing.
Agreed, I wrote this this morning and had meant to focus on AV. I had yet to have my coffee, just realized a bit was bitching about soma's killing me when I had meant to transition more into AV discussion(which is cool lol). Coffee first next time, lol.
I like though what you said here. Speed seems to be key.
Nuff Said
|
Tebu Gan
Dem Durrty Boyz
Renegade Alliance
298
|
Posted - 2013.12.13 21:45:00 -
[12] - Quote
Doshneil Antaro wrote:knight of 6 wrote:Tebu Gan wrote:InsertCoinHere wrote:daishi mk03 wrote:You have more uptime and less CD and you still manage to die vs the MLT tank.
Sorry ... there is no help out there for you. dang, you told him........ Dang he did didn't he! Here they go, completely changing the way tanks work. 3 days into it, I've lost a few tanks to MLT. Must be because I suck. (shhhh don't tell anyone) lol I swear i lose my tanks in the dumbest possible ways. I lost a gunnlogi to a soma because I was in first person shooting at some AV while hardened. these redberrys were a rare shade of new berry they were emptying clips into my shields and I was concerned because one of the brilliant dim bulbs got the Idea to get a swarm and pop out of cover at irregular intervals. while I was dealing with him I hardened up because better safe than sorry. my shield was still flickering at the top end because of all the small arms fire. suddenly it started flickering a little more intensely but not enough to break my regen so I figured somebody had an epiphony and started using a laser. I was still shooting this heavy wielding a swarm launcher(don't ask I have no idea, maybe for armor fits but even then... just i don't know). my hardener cycled off and I thought "been here long enough exit stage right", my shields started dropping I boosted but it was too late I popped. turns out the more intense flickering was a MLT large blaster, parked 3 feet behind me and I didn't notice because there was a threatening swarm launcher. who is the scrub now? Many people don't realize that shield tankers of past builds are just a lot smarter than the average armor tanker. This is due to having to do way more with a lot less survivable tank. To kill the old madrugers, I used every sneaky tactic to get the upper hand. Now that both tanks are viable, the rise of these players is going to evident. I cannot confirm this was me that got you, but this is a tactic I use through out every match. My goal as a tanker has always been anti-vehicle.
I can't begin to describe how awesome it is, to be on equal footing with a maddie. I've been waiting for many months for them to do something about my gunnlogi.
Nothing sweeter for a pre 1.7 gunnlogi pilot, than the burning wreckage of a maddie. Hmmmmm
Nuff Said
|
Tebu Gan
Dem Durrty Boyz
Renegade Alliance
305
|
Posted - 2013.12.14 01:47:00 -
[13] - Quote
crazy space 1 wrote:Doshneil Antaro wrote:IceShifter Childhaspawn wrote:The problem definitely lies in the speed of a tank. They have far too much agility for the amount of HP they are given. Why are so many tanks on the field? The have several thousand HP, and NO drawback. Their weapons track like infantry weapons, they can move faster than Lavs, and they have burst invulnerability. Why would anyone NOT go tank when this is the case.
I agree that CCP had to have done this on purpose for testing reasons. I think they want more people specced in to tanks.
aV weaponry was nerfed into uselessness. I don't care about the guys who can solo tanks with no modules fitted and nova knives as weapons. The rest of us cannot fight back.
aV grenades are by far the most useless weapons to engage a tank. The anti grenade spam measure made it so that by the time the first grenade hits the tank, it is already gone. The tanker has more than enough time to boost/ hit the hardeners and jet before the second grenade can complete its arc let alone impact. The aV grenade damage is laughable. The ONLY way aV grenades are useful is in a squad setting -when the tanker is having a seizure. Unless the tanker is afk, they will simply activate hardeners and attack the squad, or run.
The charge time on the forge gun makes it NEAR useless for attacking tanks. When the first round hits, the tank will pop hardeners and run. Likewise the Forge gun is useless for sneak attacks as there is no way for a heavy suit to kite the tracking of the turret.
Swarms... No. I haven't seen a full rack of swarms hit a tank yet. Pop hardeners/ run/ recall.
Just like the TTK problem, this is a result of everything being 'fixed' at once and unintended (I hope) consequences being exploited.
I would fix this with the vehicle cap, we already have a cap, just make the tanks cost more of it. Have the person with the highest vehicle SP, who is in queue for a tank have priority. I would restore the aV damage in 25% increments over 2 week periods to evaluate them against the new vehicle mechanics. I would also alter the tracking speed on tank main gun turrets, that they are faster than fixed turrets, but slower than infantry. I mostly agree with you. The only issue I have with your write up is the tank turrets turn speed. I do only use railguns, and the slowturn speed is a pain as seems like a good balance as is. As for the others, blasters are for anti personal, so they are fine as is. Missiles I have not tried, so I have no input for them. What I'd like to see is bonuses on tanks like 10% turning speed for blasters per level and 5% more armor per level on the soma to encourage use of racial weapons like in eve. But you can still use a rail. It gives a reason to skill in and gives a real bonus over militia tanks which would get no bonuses per level. Then blasters can have half the turning speed base. This makes them just as strong and there are mods for faster turret speed. Minmatar tank should be the fast one. We can nerf other tanks top speeds a bit.
I like
Nuff Said
|
|
|
| |
|