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My thoughts on Vehicles and AV in 1.7 uprising

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Minor Treat The Enclave Syndicate Dark Taboo 165	Posted - 2013.12.13 04:50:00 - [1] - Quote Do we feel Anti Vehicle weapons have lost their place on the battlefield or do we feel that they are in the proper placement? Personally I am more against our current patch of AV vs Vehicles being that I am both infantry and Vehicle user. I like the concept of opportunity kills for vehicle which its up to the driver to not be destroyed by activating their countermeasures and I feel its appropriate, But I also believe A single Anti Vehicle piece of equipment should destroy vehicles due to the reality that its a weapon designed primary for destroying vehicles. Sure, I also agree that team tactics are important to use when destroying vehicles but tactics in my eyes should be used against the pilot who is skilled, not just a average joe tanker. As of right now I do not see any reason to actually skill further into Anti Vehicle equipment due to the abilities they currently have. Vehicle improvements was a necessary step for dust 514 but further nerf to all AV's is more a problem than a solution now. Tanks currently are very fast and AV equipment does do some damage but significantly less even if the weapon was properly counter picked against the Vehicle. If you're running a Forge gun and use it against a shield tank well either the countermeasure is going to protect him (i like) or the speed of the tank will keep him from harms way (dislike). But we also face the issue of how long those countermeasures last... 30 seconds is very long, long enough to figure out where you're getting hit from and shooting back at multiple AV-ers. Vehicles should be punished when hit without their deflectors, if they have deflectors that last 30 seconds the idea for assaulting should be activating them before engaging and fleeing before the deflectors disengage. So i really like this idea but I feel Anti Vehicles are no longer doing that particular type of damage to be effective whether the deflector is on or not. Recovery Rate for many of these Vehicles is extremely high making it hard to keep the pressure on them to stay back especially if they can move quickly. With All these said, I think Anti Vehicle weapons have now become less effective to the point where, I don't see myself ever bring a Swarm launcher or even Forge gun (unless sniping infantry) into battle again, instead I will just use the railgun tank to clear out vehicles, but even than I risk myself being largely exposed to a hidden rail gun tank. Beyond this issue I love 1.7 changes but Anti Vehicle equipment in my eyes is too ineffective to be useful. (also I have a alternative character who is primary Forge gun and Swarm Launcher Focused, So i have used them and still have little results with them as well.) These are my thoughts on this current topic, What do you guys think?
Minor Treat The Enclave Syndicate Dark Taboo 165	Posted - 2013.12.13 05:03:00 - [2] - Quote Cosgar wrote: I think that AV has been spoiled this build. Few remember the challenge that was marauder tanks and the glory of blowing them up. Uprising made everyone soft and those that don't remember those days weak. There was no strategy nor any passion. Blowing up HAV crippled by bad re-balancing could be likened to taking out the trash. Now you actually have to work for it and that's what makes it great. As of 1.7 I've invested all my refunded vehicle SP into infantry because vehicles still don't offer what I'm working for, but I enjoy blowing them up because it means something. To sum things up, I think AV needs to grow a pair and Harden The ** UP. Okay, Can i ask you how do you take out these current vehicles? As for my thoughts on this statement, yes I do agree that Vehicles recently have been way to easily destroyed but I also believe that there is many bad drivers out there too because Tank running is a skill of it own. So I would like to see more punishing players who clearly don't know what they are doing this way they actually do harden the ** up.
Minor Treat The Enclave Syndicate Dark Taboo 165	Posted - 2013.12.13 05:06:00 - [3] - Quote Eurydice Itzhak wrote: I was going to make my own thread but I'll just keep it concise and post it here. AV is no longer capable of soloing tanks. Simply not possible. In groups of 2 you can pop a tank with modules down. In a group of 3 its easy as pie. But here's the thing. Tank v Tank battles are EXTREMELY easy for tanks to escape from. We fight each other for a LONG time and when you're losing and your mods are about to be on CD, you bounce. We've all seen it. All it takes is one forge gunner to pop that tank as it leaves and suddenly, credit to team. I can run up to a madrugar in my fully proto gunnlogi missile tank with a Dmod active and unload a full 12 missile salvo RIGHT in his weak spot, and he will have about 300 armor left. I wish there was a weapon with 175 or 300m range that could do those 300 points of damage I need to kill the tank before it runs away :P AV is now a force amplifier for vehicle battles. They tip the scales but if you don't have the groundwork in place (already having a vehicle to combat their vehicle) you wont be tipping any scale. EDIT: Oh and for the record, this is how it CURRENTLY is and I believe its the BEST iteration of vehicle/av balance so far. Nitrous need to be removed. Other than that, almost spot on for balance. So what would be your suggestion for a team who is being redlined and needs to AV a tank without being snipped or cut down my ground units? if they dont kill the tank they have no hope of getting back on the battlefield.
Minor Treat The Enclave Syndicate Dark Taboo 165	Posted - 2013.12.13 05:11:00 - [4] - Quote Minor Treat wrote: Eurydice Itzhak wrote: I was going to make my own thread but I'll just keep it concise and post it here. AV is no longer capable of soloing tanks. Simply not possible. In groups of 2 you can pop a tank with modules down. In a group of 3 its easy as pie. But here's the thing. Tank v Tank battles are EXTREMELY easy for tanks to escape from. We fight each other for a LONG time and when you're losing and your mods are about to be on CD, you bounce. We've all seen it. All it takes is one forge gunner to pop that tank as it leaves and suddenly, credit to team. I can run up to a madrugar in my fully proto gunnlogi missile tank with a Dmod active and unload a full 12 missile salvo RIGHT in his weak spot, and he will have about 300 armor left. I wish there was a weapon with 175 or 300m range that could do those 300 points of damage I need to kill the tank before it runs away :P AV is now a force amplifier for vehicle battles. They tip the scales but if you don't have the groundwork in place (already having a vehicle to combat their vehicle) you wont be tipping any scale. EDIT: Oh and for the record, this is how it CURRENTLY is and I believe its the BEST iteration of vehicle/av balance so far. Nitrous need to be removed. Other than that, almost spot on for balance. So what would be your suggestion for a team who is being redlined and needs to AV a tank without being snipped or cut down my ground units? if they dont kill the tank they have no hope of getting back on the battlefield. Also, To be frank i have never seen it in a shooter where a single infantry unit with the correct equipment is not able to destroy tanks. Every shooter out there follow that rule because it believes in the principle of punishment. Halo the spantan laser for tanks as well as rockets. Battlefield 3 with the Javelin and multiple forms of AVs, Planetside 2 with Launchers and mobile attack units. ect.
Minor Treat The Enclave Syndicate Dark Taboo 165	Posted - 2013.12.13 05:15:00 - [5] - Quote Eurydice Itzhak wrote: Minor Treat wrote: Eurydice Itzhak wrote: I was going to make my own thread but I'll just keep it concise and post it here. AV is no longer capable of soloing tanks. Simply not possible. In groups of 2 you can pop a tank with modules down. In a group of 3 its easy as pie. But here's the thing. Tank v Tank battles are EXTREMELY easy for tanks to escape from. We fight each other for a LONG time and when you're losing and your mods are about to be on CD, you bounce. We've all seen it. All it takes is one forge gunner to pop that tank as it leaves and suddenly, credit to team. I can run up to a madrugar in my fully proto gunnlogi missile tank with a Dmod active and unload a full 12 missile salvo RIGHT in his weak spot, and he will have about 300 armor left. I wish there was a weapon with 175 or 300m range that could do those 300 points of damage I need to kill the tank before it runs away :P AV is now a force amplifier for vehicle battles. They tip the scales but if you don't have the groundwork in place (already having a vehicle to combat their vehicle) you wont be tipping any scale. EDIT: Oh and for the record, this is how it CURRENTLY is and I believe its the BEST iteration of vehicle/av balance so far. Nitrous need to be removed. Other than that, almost spot on for balance. So what would be your suggestion for a team who is being redlined and needs to AV a tank without being snipped or cut down my ground units? if they dont kill the tank they have no hope of getting back on the battlefield. have your own vehicle to counter. Your statement is no different if you change the problem from a vehicle to protobears. What if a team is being redlined and needs someone with proto gear (and somehow none of them have it) to fight back against the protobears? They have other issues. indeed but do we agree that prototype gear is being less irrelevant (not completely) do to the fast TTK? because of this if a skilled militia fighter who gains the drop on the prototype gear fighter, the proto guy will lose. If this is the case why is that not true for AVs against Vehicles.
Minor Treat The Enclave Syndicate Dark Taboo 165	Posted - 2013.12.13 05:19:00 - [6] - Quote Eurydice Itzhak wrote: Minor Treat wrote: Minor Treat wrote: Eurydice Itzhak wrote: I was going to make my own thread but I'll just keep it concise and post it here. AV is no longer capable of soloing tanks. Simply not possible. In groups of 2 you can pop a tank with modules down. In a group of 3 its easy as pie. But here's the thing. Tank v Tank battles are EXTREMELY easy for tanks to escape from. We fight each other for a LONG time and when you're losing and your mods are about to be on CD, you bounce. We've all seen it. All it takes is one forge gunner to pop that tank as it leaves and suddenly, credit to team. I can run up to a madrugar in my fully proto gunnlogi missile tank with a Dmod active and unload a full 12 missile salvo RIGHT in his weak spot, and he will have about 300 armor left. I wish there was a weapon with 175 or 300m range that could do those 300 points of damage I need to kill the tank before it runs away :P AV is now a force amplifier for vehicle battles. They tip the scales but if you don't have the groundwork in place (already having a vehicle to combat their vehicle) you wont be tipping any scale. EDIT: Oh and for the record, this is how it CURRENTLY is and I believe its the BEST iteration of vehicle/av balance so far. Nitrous need to be removed. Other than that, almost spot on for balance. So what would be your suggestion for a team who is being redlined and needs to AV a tank without being snipped or cut down my ground units? if they dont kill the tank they have no hope of getting back on the battlefield. Also, To be frank i have never seen it in a shooter where a single infantry unit with the correct equipment is not able to destroy tanks. Every shooter out there follow that rule because it believes in the principle of punishment. Halo the spantan laser for tanks as well as rockets. Battlefield 3 with the Javelin and multiple forms of AVs, Planetside 2 with Launchers and mobile attack units. ect. I love that your head is so far up your own butt you replied to yourself. None of those games handle vehicles the same way this game does. I would be fine with PS2s setup because you get a free resupply of vehicles every so often and its not straining your personal resources. EDIT: Minor Treat wrote: indeed but do we agree that prototype gear is being less irrelevant (not completely) do to the fast TTK? because of this if a skilled militia fighter who gains the drop on the prototype gear fighter, the proto guy will lose. If this is the case why is that not true for AVs against Vehicles. Because they're not equal. AV's new role is to SUPPLEMENT a vehicle against other vehicles. If team sizes ever get increased every single tank will have a designated "tank buddy" riding shotgun with proto AV. I'm convincing my longtime scout buddy of this new need. Well to be honest I only replied to myself because I wanted to add something, but lets talk like adults and argue like adults.
Minor Treat The Enclave Syndicate Dark Taboo 165	Posted - 2013.12.13 05:32:00 - [7] - Quote Cosgar wrote: Minor Treat wrote: Cosgar wrote: I think that AV has been spoiled this build. Few remember the challenge that was marauder tanks and the glory of blowing them up. Uprising made everyone soft and those that don't remember those days weak. There was no strategy nor any passion. Blowing up HAV crippled by bad re-balancing could be likened to taking out the trash. Now you actually have to work for it and that's what makes it great. As of 1.7 I've invested all my refunded vehicle SP into infantry because vehicles still don't offer what I'm working for, but I enjoy blowing them up because it means something. To sum things up, I think AV needs to grow a pair and Harden The ** UP. Okay, Can i ask you how do you take out these current vehicles? Have someone in my squad running distraction while I run up behind it and either slap REs on its back or on the path of its possible escape route. Jihad jeep if I'm solo. When the modules wear off, they're even more paper thin than 1.0-1.6 or any other build when tanks were over nerfed. It's not hard, you just need a little teamwork and common sense. Quote: As for my thoughts on this statement, yes I do agree that Vehicles recently have been way to easily destroyed but I also believe that there is many bad drivers out there too because Tank running is a skill of it own. So I would like to see more punishing players who clearly don't know what they are doing this way they actually do harden the ** up. You're seeing it now. There's some good AVers out there not complaining because they understand the concept of glowy tank = baaaad, not glowy tank = good. Everyone on here crying seems to be expecting the same results of 1.0-1.6. Wolfman wasn't joking about tanks being vulnerable, but not weak. AV was probably nerfed to compensate for there only being standard tanks and most likely will scale up better when they get advanced and prototype. On that same token, don't expect them to be cheaper than a proto suit either for long. All this seems to be about making data collection a top priority. Well here is the thing, I dont mind that aspect but I dont think AVers are not complaining. There are many more Post out there in the last two days saying that same thing. Truth is Punishing tanks is not a punishing game now.
Minor Treat The Enclave Syndicate Dark Taboo 165	Posted - 2013.12.13 05:36:00 - [8] - Quote Eurydice Itzhak wrote: Minor Treat wrote: Minor Treat wrote: Eurydice Itzhak wrote: I was going to make my own thread but I'll just keep it concise and post it here. AV is no longer capable of soloing tanks. Simply not possible. In groups of 2 you can pop a tank with modules down. In a group of 3 its easy as pie. But here's the thing. Tank v Tank battles are EXTREMELY easy for tanks to escape from. We fight each other for a LONG time and when you're losing and your mods are about to be on CD, you bounce. We've all seen it. All it takes is one forge gunner to pop that tank as it leaves and suddenly, credit to team. I can run up to a madrugar in my fully proto gunnlogi missile tank with a Dmod active and unload a full 12 missile salvo RIGHT in his weak spot, and he will have about 300 armor left. I wish there was a weapon with 175 or 300m range that could do those 300 points of damage I need to kill the tank before it runs away :P AV is now a force amplifier for vehicle battles. They tip the scales but if you don't have the groundwork in place (already having a vehicle to combat their vehicle) you wont be tipping any scale. EDIT: Oh and for the record, this is how it CURRENTLY is and I believe its the BEST iteration of vehicle/av balance so far. Nitrous need to be removed. Other than that, almost spot on for balance. So what would be your suggestion for a team who is being redlined and needs to AV a tank without being snipped or cut down my ground units? if they dont kill the tank they have no hope of getting back on the battlefield. Also, To be frank i have never seen it in a shooter where a single infantry unit with the correct equipment is not able to destroy tanks. Every shooter out there follow that rule because it believes in the principle of punishment. Halo the spantan laser for tanks as well as rockets. Battlefield 3 with the Javelin and multiple forms of AVs, Planetside 2 with Launchers and mobile attack units. ect. I love that your head is so far up your own butt you replied to yourself. None of those games handle vehicles the same way this game does. I would be fine with PS2s setup because you get a free resupply of vehicles every so often and its not straining your personal resources. EDIT: Minor Treat wrote: indeed but do we agree that prototype gear is being less irrelevant (not completely) do to the fast TTK? because of this if a skilled militia fighter who gains the drop on the prototype gear fighter, the proto guy will lose. If this is the case why is that not true for AVs against Vehicles. Because they're not equal. AV's new role is to SUPPLEMENT a vehicle against other vehicles. If team sizes ever get increased every single tank will have a designated "tank buddy" riding shotgun with proto AV. I'm convincing my longtime scout buddy of this new need. Well why is it required for a Vehicle to destroy another Vehicle when there is equipment meant to destroy Vehicles? Also, what makes you think this was CCP intention to make Anti Vehicle equipment to be supplemental to Vehicle battles?

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