DUST Search - Vehicles are fine AV needs tweaking

Vicious Minotaur wrote:

DeadlyAztec11 wrote:

Vicious Minotaur wrote:

With things as they are, the power to cost ratio of tanks is completely out of balance due to AV being forcibly penetrated (metaphorically speaking) by the nerf hammer.

My proficiency three Ishukone FG feels impotent. AV grenades feel impotent. Swarm launcers feel impotent. Millions of my hard earned SP is now impotent, thanks to overzealous nerfing.

Rollback the charge nerf on FGs, damage nerf is fine.
AV grenades may need a *slight* boost to damage
Swarm... well, I don't know what they need.
Fix the stupidly absurd speeds that HAVs are capable of with that glitched module that is being exploited.

Again, the speed is a glitch. I can almost guarantee that when the speed is nerfed you will not need a faster ROF.

AV should be mostly to deter vehicles. Make them retreat and if they are either weak or you have very well tiered gear you should not be able to destroy them extremely fast. That said vehicles should have the chance to retreat, which now they do.

Vehicles should not be able to continue onwards into AV fire unless the fire they are facing is from low tier gear and they are in a high tier vehicle. With the changes I have listed vehicles would have a harder time doing this without having to flank.

So to recap AV should be able to keep HAV's from trying to fight them directly, while AV should be more of a deterrent than an insta kill class.

I want the slightly faster rate of fire on my FG so I can better kill infantry, because it *was* the only worthwhile heavy weapon. (And no, I don't tower snipe. I am always within spitting distance of infantry weapons.)

And for AV being a deterrent... well, too bad the only way to get ANY reward is from killing. So yeah. I am able to do some deterring. And I get squat for doing my job.

I guess I'll just have to switch to REs and my free LAV BPO until things stop being unbalanced.

Madness is the emergency exit. You can just step outside, and close the door on all those dreadful things that happened.

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DeadlyAztec11 2749	Posted - 2013.12.13 03:02:00 - [1] - Quote Vehicles outside of the speed module glitch are perfectly fine. Prices are finally lower, THANK GOD! Health is good and the turrets are great. AV needs tweaking. Breach forge gun needs a quarter of the damage they lost back. Swarms need half the range they lost back. Plasma Cannons are fine now that HAV's have lower health, so no need to change them. AV grenades need a fourth of the damage they lost back. AV and vehicles are closer than they have ever been to being balanced. Slight pushes on the AV side would leave the balance near perfect. Madness is the emergency exit. You can just step outside, and close the door on all those dreadful things that happened.
Xocoyol Zaraoul Superior Genetics 1725	Posted - 2013.12.13 03:04:00 - [2] - Quote Eh... I still think the Militia vehicles, HAVs, LAVs and Derpships, all need a small nerf to speed and HP. And before anyone god damn bitches about "AV bias" I've been tanking since closed beta. Closed Beta Vet Reading the forums detracts from overall enjoyment of the game
hackerzilla Defenders of the Helghast Dream 610	Posted - 2013.12.13 03:09:00 - [3] - Quote +1 I agree completely, but AV shouldn't return all the way to it's former glory... Host of Zilla's Games! The best defense in not a good offense, it's a good defense.
maeth-01 2501 Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State 10	Posted - 2013.12.13 03:12:00 - [4] - Quote Xocoyol Zaraoul wrote: Eh... I still think the Militia vehicles, HAVs, LAVs and Derpships, all need a small nerf to speed and HP. And before anyone god damn bitches about "AV bias" I've been tanking since closed beta. I thought the MLT versions of stuff were ment to be the same as the standard but with higher CPU/PG... If they change that all the noobs and just play for fun players would just get spanked more quickly wouldn't they? Not that that bothers me. *Laugh, and the world laughs with you;Weep, and you weep alone*
Vicious Minotaur Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 414	Posted - 2013.12.13 03:17:00 - [5] - Quote With things as they are, the power to cost ratio of tanks is completely out of balance due to AV being forcibly penetrated (metaphorically speaking) by the nerf hammer. My proficiency three Ishukone FG feels impotent. AV grenades feel impotent. Swarm launcers feel impotent. Millions of my hard earned SP is now impotent, thanks to overzealous nerfing. Rollback the charge nerf on FGs, damage nerf is fine. AV grenades may need a slight boost to damage Swarm... well, I don't know what they need. Fix the stupidly absurd speeds that HAVs are capable of with that glitched module that is being exploited.
DeadlyAztec11 2752	Posted - 2013.12.13 03:18:00 - [6] - Quote hackerzilla wrote: +1 I agree completely, but AV shouldn't return all the way to it's former glory... Deal is that because vehicles have lower health numbers AV weapons don't need a ton more damage. HAV's were re worked to have almost a third less damage, they also git lower prices and turret buffs. This is all understandable and so AV needed to do less damage, some weapons like the Breach Forge were over nerfed, but only barely. AV grenades were slightly over nerfed and Swarms need some range back but not all. The Plasma Cannon is actually balanced since its damage was left intact from 1.6. This means that a standard Plasma Cannon does almost as much damage as a proto Swarm Launcher. Madness is the emergency exit. You can just step outside, and close the door on all those dreadful things that happened.
The Attorney General 1636	Posted - 2013.12.13 03:21:00 - [7] - Quote DeadlyAztec11 wrote: they also git lower prices and turret buffs. Turret buffs is misleading. Missiles were buffed, but both Blasters and Rails got nerfed with the removal of the scattered and compressed variants. Everyone used to run a Scattered Ion Cannon doing 150 damage per shot plus 15% Now, damage is down to 136, and there is no skill based 15% Not really a buff at all. Mr. Hybrid Vayu.
DeadlyAztec11 2752	Posted - 2013.12.13 03:27:00 - [8] - Quote Vicious Minotaur wrote: With things as they are, the power to cost ratio of tanks is completely out of balance due to AV being forcibly penetrated (metaphorically speaking) by the nerf hammer. My proficiency three Ishukone FG feels impotent. AV grenades feel impotent. Swarm launcers feel impotent. Millions of my hard earned SP is now impotent, thanks to overzealous nerfing. Rollback the charge nerf on FGs, damage nerf is fine. AV grenades may need a slight boost to damage Swarm... well, I don't know what they need. Fix the stupidly absurd speeds that HAVs are capable of with that glitched module that is being exploited. Again, the speed is a glitch. I can almost guarantee that when the speed is nerfed you will not need a faster ROF. AV should be mostly to deter vehicles. Make them retreat and if they are either weak or you have very well tiered gear you should not be able to destroy them extremely fast. That said vehicles should have the chance to retreat, which now they do. Vehicles should not be able to continue onwards into AV fire unless the fire they are facing is from low tier gear and they are in a high tier vehicle. With the changes I have listed vehicles would have a harder time doing this without having to flank. So to recap AV should be able to keep HAV's from trying to fight them directly, while AV should be more of a deterrent than an insta kill class. Madness is the emergency exit. You can just step outside, and close the door on all those dreadful things that happened.
Vicious Minotaur Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 415	Posted - 2013.12.13 03:38:00 - [9] - Quote DeadlyAztec11 wrote: Vicious Minotaur wrote: With things as they are, the power to cost ratio of tanks is completely out of balance due to AV being forcibly penetrated (metaphorically speaking) by the nerf hammer. My proficiency three Ishukone FG feels impotent. AV grenades feel impotent. Swarm launcers feel impotent. Millions of my hard earned SP is now impotent, thanks to overzealous nerfing. Rollback the charge nerf on FGs, damage nerf is fine. AV grenades may need a slight boost to damage Swarm... well, I don't know what they need. Fix the stupidly absurd speeds that HAVs are capable of with that glitched module that is being exploited. Again, the speed is a glitch. I can almost guarantee that when the speed is nerfed you will not need a faster ROF. AV should be mostly to deter vehicles. Make them retreat and if they are either weak or you have very well tiered gear you should not be able to destroy them extremely fast. That said vehicles should have the chance to retreat, which now they do. Vehicles should not be able to continue onwards into AV fire unless the fire they are facing is from low tier gear and they are in a high tier vehicle. With the changes I have listed vehicles would have a harder time doing this without having to flank. So to recap AV should be able to keep HAV's from trying to fight them directly, while AV should be more of a deterrent than an insta kill class. I want the slightly faster rate of fire on my FG so I can better kill infantry, because it was the only worthwhile heavy weapon. (And no, I don't tower snipe. I am always within spitting distance of infantry weapons.) And for AV being a deterrent... well, too bad the only way to get ANY reward is from killing. So yeah. I am able to do some deterring. And I get squat for doing my job. I guess I'll just have to switch to REs and my free LAV BPO until things stop being unbalanced.
DeadlyAztec11 2755	Posted - 2013.12.13 03:46:00 - [10] - Quote Vicious Minotaur wrote: DeadlyAztec11 wrote: Vicious Minotaur wrote: With things as they are, the power to cost ratio of tanks is completely out of balance due to AV being forcibly penetrated (metaphorically speaking) by the nerf hammer. My proficiency three Ishukone FG feels impotent. AV grenades feel impotent. Swarm launcers feel impotent. Millions of my hard earned SP is now impotent, thanks to overzealous nerfing. Rollback the charge nerf on FGs, damage nerf is fine. AV grenades may need a slight boost to damage Swarm... well, I don't know what they need. Fix the stupidly absurd speeds that HAVs are capable of with that glitched module that is being exploited. Again, the speed is a glitch. I can almost guarantee that when the speed is nerfed you will not need a faster ROF. AV should be mostly to deter vehicles. Make them retreat and if they are either weak or you have very well tiered gear you should not be able to destroy them extremely fast. That said vehicles should have the chance to retreat, which now they do. Vehicles should not be able to continue onwards into AV fire unless the fire they are facing is from low tier gear and they are in a high tier vehicle. With the changes I have listed vehicles would have a harder time doing this without having to flank. So to recap AV should be able to keep HAV's from trying to fight them directly, while AV should be more of a deterrent than an insta kill class. I want the slightly faster rate of fire on my FG so I can better kill infantry, because it was the only worthwhile heavy weapon. (And no, I don't tower snipe. I am always within spitting distance of infantry weapons.) And for AV being a deterrent... well, too bad the only way to get ANY reward is from killing. So yeah. I am able to do some deterring. And I get squat for doing my job. I guess I'll just have to switch to REs and my free LAV BPO until things stop being unbalanced. I hear a lot of people are experiencing friendly fire issues with the RE's in FW so be careful. On the forge gun, it was never really meant to be an anti infantry based weapon. It was more suppose to be a high skill high reward deal, that would be hard to abuse because of low ROF, the assault Forge gun was becoming a bit to easy compared to what it was suppose to be. I know the HMG needs to be reworked. Though that is an issue for another thread. Madness is the emergency exit. You can just step outside, and close the door on all those dreadful things that happened.

AetherFall Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 6	Posted - 2013.12.13 04:08:00 - [11] - Quote DeadlyAztec11 wrote: AV and vehicles are closer than they have ever been to being balanced. Slight pushes on the AV side would leave the balance near perfect. Closer to balanced...??? You are on the crack. Balance will be 10x ISK cost for tanks. They should never make up a fourth of one side of the board (meaning four tanks on one side). I don't have an issue with the power, but they are way too common. This means the tanks are overpowered due to cheap cost VS power.
DeadlyAztec11 2757	Posted - 2013.12.13 04:13:00 - [12] - Quote AetherFall wrote: DeadlyAztec11 wrote: AV and vehicles are closer than they have ever been to being balanced. Slight pushes on the AV side would leave the balance near perfect. Closer to balanced...??? You are on the crack. Balance will be 10x ISK cost for tanks. They should never make up a fourth of one side of the board (meaning four tanks on one side). I don't have an issue with the power, but they are way too common. This means the tanks are overpowered due to cheap cost VS power. No. Also my narcotic history is none of your concern. Things should not be balanced solely on cost. And you never tanked seriously if you believe that they should be extremely expensive. The reason they are common right now is because everybody wants to try out the changes as well as abuse the speed module glitch. Tank spam will not last. Especially after the glitch is fixed. Madness is the emergency exit. You can just step outside, and close the door on all those dreadful things that happened.
The Attorney General 1641	Posted - 2013.12.13 04:15:00 - [13] - Quote AetherFall wrote: Balance will be 10x ISK cost for tanks. At 5 million for a STD tank, there better be a ton of power behind it. At least 5 times the HP and double the damage. BTW, you can't balance with cost. Don't bother trying. No, tank hulls could go up in price, and MLT tanks could lose a slot or two to gimp them and make people spec and spend. But not as high as you want. That would just be stupid. Mr. Hybrid Vayu.
Jason Pearson 3313	Posted - 2013.12.13 04:16:00 - [14] - Quote Disagree, Tanks aren't "fine". See my post. And Injector is fixed, soz. King of the Forums // Vehicle Specialist for Hire Laugh at the idiots crying about four BPOs being removed erryday, lul
Galvan Nized Deep Space Republic 372	Posted - 2013.12.13 04:22:00 - [15] - Quote Tanks aren't that bad, bugged nitro is mucking things up a bit. But AV is so off from where is should be. I understand some AV should be a good deterrent and not exactly killers...but this can't ONLY apply when hardeners are off. Something MUST be able to hit through hardeners even if it's not traditional...proxies would be great for this. Other AV could serve a different purpose. Perhaps AV grenades now lock out a mod or reduce its lasting time. Instead of hardeners lasting x second always make a grenade reduce that time by x percent. Webifiers could stop a vehicle for a few seconds. Lots of cool things could be done that aren't only damage.
Jason Pearson 3316	Posted - 2013.12.13 04:28:00 - [16] - Quote Sigh, hit a vehicle without its actives, it'll feel it. I mean I'm shields, I get hit by an AV grenade (explosive) and I move, because it hurts me. Problem is you can constantly cycle the actives on shields, meaning you can maintain that 60% damage reduction, thats problem one, more hardeners than one can really just end AV. Then you've got the speed issue, not just the injectors (fixed), but the movement speed, speaking from experience, we can travel far to quickly to get out of danger, My hardeners go off and I'm already half way to the red line. I get there, wait and then come back. Honestly, we need more content for balancing to work, but you won't balance it on the damage, because Tanks aren't the only thing, you've gotta factor in the Dropships and LAVs, then the idea that eventually we'll have fighters, bombers, MAVs, Mechs, speeders, etc. King of the Forums // Vehicle Specialist for Hire Laugh at the idiots crying about four BPOs being removed erryday, lul
Doc Noah Algintal Core Gallente Federation 986	Posted - 2013.12.13 04:39:00 - [17] - Quote AV should get their old stats back if CCP plans to keep tanks roughly the same price as a dropsuit. Speed needs to be dropped (25-33%), I find it ridiculous to see a tank chasing down an LAV and ramming it off the road.


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