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Foundation Seldon
Gespenster Kompanie Villore Accords
314
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Posted - 2013.12.10 16:51:00 -
[1] - Quote
So here's the setup, I'm running a Gunnlogi with 2 Hardeners and a Booster and testing the waters with how resiiient I am against AV.
Long story short, VERY resilient.
I sat there and looked at a Swarmer using Wirykomi swarms.
I turned one Hardener on.
The damage dealt was a lowly fraction of my total Shield HP, as expected for 60% hardeners. The key point however is that my shields continued to regenerate as he shot me. Literally he'd hit me with Swarms, my Shields would regenerate as the minimum threshold of damage was not met, and by the time he'd get his second volley off I was at 100% once more. Once my hardeners were off however he was able to meet the minimum threshold of damage to stop my regen and I backed off.
THIS IS BROKEN, THIS IS OP, NERF TANKS ... right?
Consider the following. 1. Swarms do -25% damage to Shields from the get go, they are a weapon not in any way meant to combat them as they're explosives and this fact was made painfully clear by the single swarmer's efforts.
2. He was using a typical Swarm + AV Grenade setup, while successful in the last build due to Shield Tank's laughably ineffective everything now we're in a situation where Shield Tanks both have potent regen and VERY good Resist modules. His suit was better suited for Armor vehicles and this fact showed from the get go.
So, what needs to change for the Light AV fellow? Equipment and Tactics
Flux grenades as an AV device probably need to be brought back to the forefront, though testing needs to be done to see if their damage is effected by hardeners.
Plasma Cannons had their damage unchanged going into Uprising 1.7 and have a 25% bonus to Shields. STD Variants already do 1050 Damage RAW without any Damage mods.
Plan around my Hardeners, if I have them up then I'm VERY resilient, bait my turning them on and chase me down when im in cooldown.
1.7 LAVs - Thoughts and Discussion
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Foundation Seldon
Gespenster Kompanie Villore Accords
316
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Posted - 2013.12.11 13:30:00 -
[2] - Quote
First and Final Bump.
1.7 LAVs - Thoughts and Discussion
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Takahiro Kashuken
Red Star. EoN.
1852
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Posted - 2013.12.11 13:34:00 -
[3] - Quote
How is it broken?
Swarms at max only do 70% damage to shields in the 1st place, add in that 60% hardener he aint going to do **** to shields because it cannot put out enough damage to stop the regen
Only the FG/PC does enough damage to stop the regen, problem is not many are skilled into them mainly because require some and in the case of the PC alot of skill to use where as swarms are fire and forget eazy mode crap which are made for infantry
Frankly so far what i have seen with the majority of AV right now against the tanks and other vehicles is that they are all still using swarms against shields and 99% of AV users are idiots
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Foundation Seldon
Gespenster Kompanie Villore Accords
317
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Posted - 2013.12.11 13:51:00 -
[4] - Quote
Takahiro Kashuken wrote:How is it broken?
Swarms at max only do 70% damage to shields in the 1st place, add in that 60% hardener he aint going to do **** to shields because it cannot put out enough damage to stop the regen
Only the FG/PC does enough damage to stop the regen, problem is not many are skilled into them mainly because require some and in the case of the PC alot of skill to use where as swarms are fire and forget eazy mode crap which are made for infantry
Frankly so far what i have seen with the majority of AV right now against the tanks and other vehicles is that they are all still using swarms against shields and 99% of AV users are idiots
And I agree with you, I said as much in the post itself.
What needs to change is both the tactics of the AV player and the Equipment they use as a primary AV device. Swarms are no longer the end all be all AV device that can take on every vehicle in the game, you need equipment that matches the opponent that you're fighting and I think this is the cause of the majority of unrest among the AV community.
Tactics need changing. Use Remote Explosives and Proximities to set traps
Equipment needs changing. Use AV weaponry that does well against the opponent that you're fighting.
1.7 LAVs - Thoughts and Discussion
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Harpyja
DUST University Ivy League
895
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Posted - 2013.12.11 13:55:00 -
[5] - Quote
+1 Some lolswarms that aren't meant for taking down shields shouldn't be able to force me to hide with active resistance.
"By His light, and His will"
- The Scriptures, Gheinok the First, 12:32
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pyramidhead 420
Carbon 7 CRONOS.
217
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Posted - 2013.12.11 13:59:00 -
[6] - Quote
rise of the forge gun!!! my 1.7 mil from vehicles is going straight into proto fg.
give it about 3 weeks and fatties carrying fg's will be EVERYWHERE |
Takahiro Kashuken
Red Star. EoN.
1852
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Posted - 2013.12.11 14:01:00 -
[7] - Quote
Foundation Seldon wrote:Takahiro Kashuken wrote:How is it broken?
Swarms at max only do 70% damage to shields in the 1st place, add in that 60% hardener he aint going to do **** to shields because it cannot put out enough damage to stop the regen
Only the FG/PC does enough damage to stop the regen, problem is not many are skilled into them mainly because require some and in the case of the PC alot of skill to use where as swarms are fire and forget eazy mode crap which are made for infantry
Frankly so far what i have seen with the majority of AV right now against the tanks and other vehicles is that they are all still using swarms against shields and 99% of AV users are idiots
And I agree with you, I said as much in the post itself. What needs to change is both the tactics of the AV player and the Equipment they use as a primary AV device. Swarms are no longer the end all be all AV device that can take on every vehicle in the game, you need equipment that matches the opponent that you're fighting and I think this is the cause of the majority of unrest among the AV community. Tactics need changing. Use Remote Explosives and Proximities to set traps Equipment needs changing. Use AV weaponry that does well against the opponent that you're fighting.
TBH let AV figure it out for once
Pilots always know how to kill a vehicle with AV and can do it on a whim, AV on the otherhand instead cry for nerfs to vehicles instead of adapting |
Slag Emberforge
Immortal Retribution
238
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Posted - 2013.12.11 14:15:00 -
[8] - Quote
Foundation Seldon wrote:Takahiro Kashuken wrote:How is it broken?
Swarms at max only do 70% damage to shields in the 1st place, add in that 60% hardener he aint going to do **** to shields because it cannot put out enough damage to stop the regen
Only the FG/PC does enough damage to stop the regen, problem is not many are skilled into them mainly because require some and in the case of the PC alot of skill to use where as swarms are fire and forget eazy mode crap which are made for infantry
Frankly so far what i have seen with the majority of AV right now against the tanks and other vehicles is that they are all still using swarms against shields and 99% of AV users are idiots
And I agree with you, I said as much in the post itself. What needs to change is both the tactics of the AV player and the Equipment they use as a primary AV device. Swarms are no longer the end all be all AV device that can take on every vehicle in the game, you need equipment that matches the opponent that you're fighting and I think this is the cause of the majority of unrest among the AV community. Tactics need changing. Use Remote Explosives and Proximities to set traps Equipment needs changing. Use AV weaponry that does well against the opponent that you're fighting.
No offense, but for Forgers there isn't that much to change. We don't get proxies, we can't use remote explosives, we can use a FG at medium/long range, and we can choose between flux (pointless) and AV grenades. Our options really boil down to:
get on a tower -> endless QQ, fire long range -> tanks escape due to being faster than thoroughbreds, come back in. 20 secs. fire at medium range -> tanks may not escape, but TTK is too high, my reserves are depleted and the tanker can come back and just drop down a fresh tank no problem fire at close range -> you will not survive. |
chase rowland
The Enclave Syndicate Dark Taboo
109
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Posted - 2013.12.11 14:22:00 -
[9] - Quote
im just glad people have to use their brains now to be good AV. |
Jack McReady
DUST University Ivy League
833
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Posted - 2013.12.11 14:53:00 -
[10] - Quote
no offense but RE, flux and PLC only work against noobs or people currently masturbating thus not able to move. tanks are too mobile, even without the bugged militia item giving way to high speed boost.
beside that, RE are currently bugged in FW, on many occasions it counts as FF where it shouldnt, all you will get a is a kick from FW.
Takahiro Kashuken wrote:
TBH let AV figure it out for once
Pilots always know how to kill a vehicle with AV and can do it on a whim, AV on the otherhand instead cry for nerfs to vehicles instead of adapting
cool story bro.
actually vehicle pilots cried because they cant solo squads on their own. all those QQ posts do me a big favor and highlight all the bad tank drivers for me. the only problem pre patch was that you could skill up into AV in a week, tanks took huge amount of SP to make them shine. pre patch tanks with max SP and proper fit could sustain fire from a single person for 20 to 30 seconds, depending on the amount of damage mods used. math was posted several times MONTHS ago, only CoD kids bothered to post with some troll answers. I wonder, what the tank driver whining about his survivability did in this 20 seconds? masturbating again? pro tip: get laid and your problems are solved.
now vehicles got overbuffed. they are twice as tough (I pretty much warned everyone prepatch but I guess doing some math was too hard with the announced changes) and to round it up AV got nerfed additionally. giving tanks 20k+ehp was not enough, right? you can be sure that CCP will sooner or later realize the mistake and swing the nerf hammer again. I will just watch and again collect all the tiers from the bad players |
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Justicar Karnellia
Ikomari-Onu Enforcement Caldari State
228
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Posted - 2013.12.11 15:10:00 -
[11] - Quote
Jack McReady wrote:no offense but RE, flux and PLC only work against noobs or people currently masturbating thus not able to move. tanks are too mobile, even without the bugged militia item giving way to high speed boost. beside that, RE are currently bugged in FW, on many occasions it counts as FF where it shouldnt, all you will get a is a kick from FW. Takahiro Kashuken wrote:
TBH let AV figure it out for once
Pilots always know how to kill a vehicle with AV and can do it on a whim, AV on the otherhand instead cry for nerfs to vehicles instead of adapting
cool story bro. actually vehicle pilots cried because they cant solo squads on their own, the average tank driver wants to other require huge amounts of effort to kill them. all those QQ posts do me a big favor and highlight all the bad tank drivers for me. the only problem pre patch was that you could skill up into AV in a week, tanks took huge amount of SP to make them shine. pre patch tanks with max SP and proper fit could sustain fire from a single person for 20 to 30 seconds, depending on the amount of damage mods used. math was posted several times MONTHS ago, only CoD kids bothered to post with some troll answers. I wonder, what the tank driver whining about his survivability did in this 20 seconds? masturbating again? pro tip: get laid and your problems are solved. now vehicles got overbuffed. they are twice as tough (I pretty much warned everyone prepatch but I guess doing some math was too hard with the announced changes) very fast and to round it up AV got nerfed additionally. giving tanks 20k+ehp and rocket propulsion was not enough, right? you can be sure that CCP will sooner or later realize the mistake and swing the nerf hammer again. I will just watch and again collect all the tears from the bad players anyway as long as a vehicle can be piloted by one person a single person should be able to atleast scare it away or you generate an artificial advantage to having more fictive players on one side than the other, this is not balance at all and as long as people do not understand this, do not bother to post as you already shown that you have no crediblity.
This. |
Takahiro Kashuken
Red Star. EoN.
1853
|
Posted - 2013.12.11 16:26:00 -
[12] - Quote
Jack McReady wrote:no offense but RE, flux and PLC only work against noobs or people currently masturbating thus not able to move. tanks are too mobile, even without the bugged militia item giving way to high speed boost. beside that, RE are currently bugged in FW, on many occasions it counts as FF where it shouldnt, all you will get a is a kick from FW. Takahiro Kashuken wrote:
TBH let AV figure it out for once
Pilots always know how to kill a vehicle with AV and can do it on a whim, AV on the otherhand instead cry for nerfs to vehicles instead of adapting
cool story bro. actually vehicle pilots cried because they cant solo squads on their own, the average tank driver wants to other require huge amounts of effort to kill them. all those QQ posts do me a big favor and highlight all the bad tank drivers for me. the only problem pre patch was that you could skill up into AV in a week, tanks took huge amount of SP to make them shine. pre patch tanks with max SP and proper fit could sustain fire from a single person for 20 to 30 seconds, depending on the amount of damage mods used. math was posted several times MONTHS ago, only CoD kids bothered to post with some troll answers. I wonder, what the tank driver whining about his survivability did in this 20 seconds? masturbating again? pro tip: get laid and your problems are solved. now vehicles got overbuffed. they are twice as tough (I pretty much warned everyone prepatch but I guess doing some math was too hard with the announced changes) very fast and to round it up AV got nerfed additionally. giving tanks 20k+ehp and rocket propulsion was not enough, right? you can be sure that CCP will sooner or later realize the mistake and swing the nerf hammer again. I will just watch and again collect all the tears from the bad players anyway as long as a vehicle can be piloted by one person a single person should be able to atleast scare it away or you generate an artificial advantage to having more fictive players on one side than the other, this is not balance at all and as long as people do not understand this, do not bother to post as you already shown that you have no crediblity. the matches currently speak a clear language, HAVs everywhere for a reason, you cant even call a LAV because vehicle limit for the team is reached.
Wrong
Vehicle pilots wanted a chance to survive, not get instapopped by the invisible man
20secs? thats nice is that against militia swarms? proto pops out all 3 volley in less than 4seconds with 3k damage each not too mention we couldnt see them at all so in your ideal world we could survive but in the real world we cant see the swarmer or the missiles
Overbuffed? is that because you cant solo it anymore? frankly its a tank to take out a tank or an organized AV team, 2ppl with AV can do it
Militia overdrive gives 100% boost for 10seconds, its only supposed to do 10%, complex is only 30%, i expect CCP to patch it soon
A single person with AV can scare a tank away in this build, ive seen it done to me and ive moved fast
HAVs and vehicles everywhere because pilots testing out the new toys, lots of vehicles im seeing are milita tbh |
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