DUST Search - Tales from a sad heavy... Just let it out BRAH.

XxGhazbaranxX wrote:

Hello,

I'm creating this thread so the true HMG heavies can share the the most ridiculous death they have experienced. By ridiculous I mean a death where there was obviously no way the opponent should have won against you, but because of current game balance, they did. With your tale post some well though out questions that came to mind from the engagement. Also try to Enumerate the things that you as a heavy see wrong with the situation that you experienced. Please keep it rant free.

Tale #1:

I'm in my adv basic heavy, just wielding a modest 1,473 HP (576 shields/897 armor). I'm going through a corridor (indoors no way for snipers to get me just to clarify for those trolls) And I meat up with this gallente assault wielding about 600 HP. As many of you heavies out there know HMG deals more damage to armor. I'm fairly confident I have this one in the Bag. We are less than 20 meters away and LIFE is good. He hasn't seen me yet and his buddies are nowhere to be seen. I start shooting my ADV HMG with my impressive level 5 proficiency and 2 complex damage mods and out of the blue he kills me Just like that. Standing still like he is boss. Not a worry in there world. Unfortunately this happens all the time. The HMG is outgunned by a weapons at it's optimal. I can say all the time when I get near an enemy just to lose to an AR or a SCR.

Question?

Why, even though the HMG has more DPS on paper, does it feel like it's applied damage is much less?
Why, even though I have Double the HP and am shooting at a stationary target, does he still not die ?

Whats Wrong with this picture?

The enemy is ambushed and not aware
Enemy Has less than double the HP of the heavy suit being used
Enemy is stationary and still doesn't go down

Few are my equal in one of these specialties, and there are none who can compare in all of them.

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XxGhazbaranxX The New Age Outlaws WINMATAR. 726	Posted - 2013.12.09 00:30:00 - [1] - Quote Hello, I'm creating this thread so the true HMG heavies can share the the most ridiculous death they have experienced. By ridiculous I mean a death where there was obviously no way the opponent should have won against you, but because of current game balance, they did. With your tale post some well though out questions that came to mind from the engagement. Also try to Enumerate the things that you as a heavy see wrong with the situation that you experienced. Please keep it rant free. Tale #1: I'm in my adv basic heavy, just wielding a modest 1,473 HP (576 shields/897 armor). I'm going through a corridor (indoors no way for snipers to get me just to clarify for those trolls) And I meat up with this gallente assault wielding about 600 HP. As many of you heavies out there know HMG deals more damage to armor. I'm fairly confident I have this one in the Bag. We are less than 20 meters away and LIFE is good. He hasn't seen me yet and his buddies are nowhere to be seen. I start shooting my ADV HMG with my impressive level 5 proficiency and 2 complex damage mods and out of the blue he kills me Just like that. Standing still like he is boss. Not a worry in there world. Unfortunately this happens all the time. The HMG is outgunned by a weapons at it's optimal. I can say all the time when I get near an enemy just to lose to an AR or a SCR. Question? Why, even though the HMG has more DPS on paper, does it feel like it's applied damage is much less? Why, even though I have Double the HP and am shooting at a stationary target, does he still not die ? Whats Wrong with this picture? The enemy is ambushed and not aware Enemy Has less than double the HP of the heavy suit being used Enemy is stationary and still doesn't go down Plasma Cannon Advocate
Leovarian L Lavitz NECROM0NGERS Covert Intervention 839	Posted - 2013.12.09 00:34:00 - [2] - Quote XxGhazbaranxX wrote: Hello, I'm creating this thread so the true HMG heavies can share the the most ridiculous death they have experienced. By ridiculous I mean a death where there was obviously no way the opponent should have won against you, but because of current game balance, they did. With your tale post some well though out questions that came to mind from the engagement. Also try to Enumerate the things that you as a heavy see wrong with the situation that you experienced. Please keep it rant free. Tale #1: I'm in my adv basic heavy, just wielding a modest 1,473 HP (576 shields/897 armor). I'm going through a corridor (indoors no way for snipers to get me just to clarify for those trolls) And I meat up with this gallente assault wielding about 600 HP. As many of you heavies out there know HMG deals more damage to armor. I'm fairly confident I have this one in the Bag. We are less than 20 meters away and LIFE is good. He hasn't seen me yet and his buddies are nowhere to be seen. I start shooting my ADV HMG with my impressive level 5 proficiency and 2 complex damage mods and out of the blue he kills me Just like that. Standing still like he is boss. Not a worry in there world. Unfortunately this happens all the time. The HMG is outgunned by a weapons at it's optimal. I can say all the time when I get near an enemy just to lose to an AR or a SCR. Question? Why, even though the HMG has more DPS on paper, does it feel like it's applied damage is much less? Why, even though I have Double the HP and am shooting at a stationary target, does he still not die ? Whats Wrong with this picture? The enemy is ambushed and not aware Enemy Has less than double the HP of the heavy suit being used Enemy is stationary and still doesn't go down 1: You must have the little 'dot' on the enemy 100% of the time for full damage to be applied, little slips loose all of your dps till the 'dot' is red again. 2: You missed. Omni-Soldier Few are my equal in one of these specialties, and there are none who can compare in all of them.
Jastad D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 311	Posted - 2013.12.09 00:35:00 - [3] - Quote The reason is the HMG. next time bring the FORGE and one shot him. Join us, and become a padawan of the FORGE ...and may the FORGE be with you.
XxGhazbaranxX The New Age Outlaws WINMATAR. 726	Posted - 2013.12.09 00:38:00 - [4] - Quote Leovarian L Lavitz wrote: 1: You must have the little 'dot' on the enemy 100% of the time for full damage to be applied, little slips lose all of your dps till the 'dot' is red again. 2: You missed. Troll is a Troll. I made the video explaining the mechanic Plasma Cannon Advocate
Awesome Pantaloons Tech Guard RISE of LEGION 165	Posted - 2013.12.09 00:39:00 - [5] - Quote I've been killed by a duvolle from 10m away while I laid into him with a Boundless. He was in a CalAss while I was in my Pro Sentinel. We saw each other at roughly the same time. I moved around to attempt being gunned down. It didn't help. :( HMG is so UP it's sad. I see heavies with ARs more often now, and it doesn't surprise me. If I don't see an HMG buff by 1.8, I'll start running Imperial Scram Rifles on my heavy suits. I'd like to see them outgun me. :P "The Wrath of God is Immense. His Justice is Swift and Decisive. His Tolerance is Limited." -The Code of Demeanor
Leovarian L Lavitz NECROM0NGERS Covert Intervention 839	Posted - 2013.12.09 00:39:00 - [6] - Quote XxGhazbaranxX wrote: Leovarian L Lavitz wrote: 1: You must have the little 'dot' on the enemy 100% of the time for full damage to be applied, little slips lose all of your dps till the 'dot' is red again. 2: You missed. Troll is a Troll. I made the video explaining the mechanic I figured it was you. Next time have your PVR running so you can watch the vid and figure out what happened. Omni-Soldier Few are my equal in one of these specialties, and there are none who can compare in all of them.
XxGhazbaranxX The New Age Outlaws WINMATAR. 726	Posted - 2013.12.09 00:43:00 - [7] - Quote Leovarian L Lavitz wrote: XxGhazbaranxX wrote: Leovarian L Lavitz wrote: 1: You must have the little 'dot' on the enemy 100% of the time for full damage to be applied, little slips lose all of your dps till the 'dot' is red again. 2: You missed. Troll is a Troll. I made the video explaining the mechanic I figured it was you. Next time have your PVR running so you can watch the vid and figure out what happened. Lol I've done this so many time's thinking I must have done something wrong. Please I do not make posts lightly. I take some time to think about what I am going to talk about and verify thoroughly to be sure that I am not the one at fault. I thought That maybe, if you though it was me that did the video, you would have at least the faintest of ideas of how I do testing before doing or saying anything in the forums. Please, whatever you are going to say, don't. I dont know if it's your intention but it's coming out as trolling and I for one am very tired of these forums being riddled with trolls. Plasma Cannon Advocate
Michael Arck Anubis Prime Syndicate 2015	Posted - 2013.12.09 00:43:00 - [8] - Quote I don't know, I've seen some heavies put in some serious damage.
XxGhazbaranxX The New Age Outlaws WINMATAR. 726	Posted - 2013.12.09 00:44:00 - [9] - Quote Michael Arck wrote: I don't know, I've seen some heavies put in some serious damage. This is correct. But you see there is a big differen between fighting a noob in an ADV suit then fighting a skilled player in one. No matter the damage. Run a heavy for a week (any less will not give you the scope of the problem, and then you will understand. Plasma Cannon Advocate
Leovarian L Lavitz NECROM0NGERS Covert Intervention 839	Posted - 2013.12.09 00:47:00 - [10] - Quote XxGhazbaranxX wrote: Leovarian L Lavitz wrote: XxGhazbaranxX wrote: Leovarian L Lavitz wrote: 1: You must have the little 'dot' on the enemy 100% of the time for full damage to be applied, little slips lose all of your dps till the 'dot' is red again. 2: You missed. Troll is a Troll. I made the video explaining the mechanic I figured it was you. Next time have your PVR running so you can watch the vid and figure out what happened. Lol I've done this so many time's thinking I must have done something wrong. Please I do not make posts lightly. I take some time to think about what I am going to talk about and verify thoroughly to be sure that I am not the one at fault. I thought That maybe, if you though it was me that did the video, you would have at least the faintest of ideas of how I do testing before doing or saying anything in the forums. Please, whatever you are going to say, don't. I dont know if it's your intention but it's coming out as trolling and I for one am very tired of these forums being riddled with trolls. I've been here for so long (and eve even before that) that the culture has rubbed off on my mannerisms. I am not intending to troll, and apologize if it came off that way. The only thing I can think is that you had some network latency. You should have honestly won that engagement if all the variables are as you say they are. I just considered another thing, he could have perhaps been receiving some sort of mega repair from a hidden source (core focused or maybe some repairing nano-hives out of sight and not rendering. Omni-Soldier Few are my equal in one of these specialties, and there are none who can compare in all of them.

Oswald Rehnquist 810	Posted - 2013.12.09 00:49:00 - [11] - Quote I know that at one point weapons received an invisible 10% in damage during the same time one of the separate hmg buffs occurred, I wonder if something was wrong with the coding of the hmg there or they forgot to give it the 10% buff as well. Below 28 dB
XxGhazbaranxX The New Age Outlaws WINMATAR. 726	Posted - 2013.12.09 00:52:00 - [12] - Quote I guess this community is video based. Ohh wells, I think it might be time for another video on the subject just so I don't get contradicted every time I take my time to do a well though out post. Plasma Cannon Advocate
castba Penguin's March 235	Posted - 2013.12.09 01:56:00 - [13] - Quote My tale and question I was defending my squadmate whilst he hacked a point in the older city. I had an adv sentinel with 1618hp (600 shield, 1018 armour) and was using the MLR-A burst HMG with 1x complex damage mod and lvl proficiency. Medium Cal comes at us to stop the hack and starts taking down my shields, I light him up with a bust causing his shields to evaporate. I have next to no shields (under 50hp shields remain) as he leaps behind some crates while lobbing a grenade which landed at my feet. BOOM. Death by Core Locust Grenade. Question? 1. How can a grenade that supposedly does 600hp damage, destroy over 1000hp of armour? Even with the +20% explosive damage armour takes, I should still have had around 300hp of armour? 2. See question 1 XxGhazbaranxX wrote: Question? Why, even though the HMG has more DPS on paper, does it feel like it's applied damage is much less? Why, even though I have Double the HP and am shooting at a stationary target, does he still not die ? Please excuse the my relative lack of experience with the HMG. Whilst I have been a heavy since Feb this year, I have only really skilled and been using the HMG for a couple of months. 1. I agree that it does feel that way... it is almost as if the hit multiplier factors in the accuracy (61%) and applies it to the damage output even if the little dot in the reticle is planted in the opponent's chest. This would be easier to work out with the burst though as it has a fixed number of rounds expended when fired, so the actual damage could be calculated with the help of another recording how much they took from each burst. 2. Because he killed you first? Is there another answer? Not trying to be a smartarse but if the CalAss was standing still, odds are that he was shooting the oversized head of the heavy for those headshot multipliers I Support SP Rollover
XxGhazbaranxX The New Age Outlaws WINMATAR. 726	Posted - 2013.12.09 02:04:00 - [14] - Quote castba wrote: 2. Because he killed you first? Is there another answer? Not trying to be a smartarse but if the CalAss was standing still, odds are that he was shooting the oversized head of the heavy for those headshot multipliers Even if he was hitting for head multipliers, this is not something that would happen 100% of the time... Base DPS of the HMG is 600 damage per second so in less than 2 seconds he should have been dead. He has a base damage of 430 damage per second. He wold have taken about 3 to 4 seconds to kill me on paper nearly twice as long as it should take me to kill him. You have also noticed inconsistencies with damage application being somewhat different. Right now when I use my boundless HMG I feel Like I'm using my "DREN" assault rifle (and I don't have a single point in assault rifles) That's right my boundless HMG with proficiency 5 and 2 damage mods feels like if I was using my dren assault rifle and I have no point into assault rifles. Plasma Cannon Advocate
Anmol Singh The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 404	Posted - 2013.12.09 02:07:00 - [15] - Quote XxGhazbaranxX wrote: Hello, I'm creating this thread so the true HMG heavies can share the the most ridiculous death they have experienced. By ridiculous I mean a death where there was obviously no way the opponent should have won against you, but because of current game balance, they did. With your tale post some well though out questions that came to mind from the engagement. Also try to Enumerate the things that you as a heavy see wrong with the situation that you experienced. Please keep it rant free. Tale #1: I'm in my adv basic heavy, just wielding a modest 1,473 HP (576 shields/897 armor). I'm going through a corridor (indoors no way for snipers to get me just to clarify for those trolls) And I meat up with this gallente assault wielding about 600 HP. As many of you heavies out there know HMG deals more damage to armor. I'm fairly confident I have this one in the Bag. We are less than 20 meters away and LIFE is good. He hasn't seen me yet and his buddies are nowhere to be seen. I start shooting my ADV HMG with my impressive level 5 proficiency and 2 complex damage mods and out of the blue he kills me Just like that. Standing still like he is boss. Not a worry in there world. Unfortunately this happens all the time. The HMG is outgunned by a weapons at it's optimal. I can say all the time when I get near an enemy just to lose to an AR or a SCR. Question? Why, even though the HMG has more DPS on paper, does it feel like it's applied damage is much less? Why, even though I have Double the HP and am shooting at a stationary target, does he still not die ? Whats Wrong with this picture? The enemy is ambushed and not aware Enemy Has less than double the HP of the heavy suit being used Enemy is stationary and still doesn't go down I was in my ADV suit 1100+ ehp and with MH-82 with 2 complex heavy dmg mods and i got beat by a milita heavy with a adv assault SMG (the mlt heavy had like 750 ehp) we were about 10 feet away from eachother.. *Sagaris lover!!!*
castba Penguin's March 235	Posted - 2013.12.09 02:18:00 - [16] - Quote XxGhazbaranxX wrote: Even if he was hitting for head multipliers, this is not something that would happen 100% of the time... Base DPS of the HMG is 600 damage per second so in less than 2 seconds he should have been dead. He has a base damage of 430 damage per second. He wold have taken about 3 to 4 seconds to kill me on paper nearly twice as long as it should take me to kill him. You have also noticed inconsistencies with damage application being somewhat different. Right now when I use my boundless HMG I feel Like I'm using my "DREN" assault rifle (and I don't have a single point in assault rifles) That's right my boundless HMG with proficiency 5 and 2 damage mods feels like if I was using my dren assault rifle and I have no point into assault rifles. Yes, I understand the "on paper" maths, but I don't think that they are accurate for any automatic weapon. Especially the calculated DPS when not taking into account how the "accuracy' rating is calculated... and whether it is actually applied to all guns. As an aside, I can do the same or possibly a little better with the M209 SMG than I can with the MH-82 HMG. Same play style, same close range, same proficiency & damage mods. Same deal at proto with the Ishi SMG as opposed to the Boundless HMG. AR and SCR are both more effective than the SMG per level, so I am not surprised you feel that the Dren AR is as effective as your boundless. I Support SP Rollover
Roy Ventus Foxhound Corporation General Tso's Alliance 658	Posted - 2013.12.09 02:20:00 - [17] - Quote I feel sorry for heavies. You lack heavy weapons that are effective for precise long-medium combat. The Forge Gun isn't precise and you're more likely to kill with the splash, which is not likely unless in the best of conditions. "There once was a time when there wasn't a Roy Ventus and it wasn't much of a time at all." Roy Ventus
Patrick57 Fatal Absolution 1946	Posted - 2013.12.09 02:22:00 - [18] - Quote I took down a Proto Sentinel that had 1100 Armor and 500 Shields with a Toxin AR (and once a Laser :D) so fast that he couldn't even turn around to see me. When I'm depressed, I cut myself......A BIG SLICE OF CHOCOLATE CAKE!
XxGhazbaranxX The New Age Outlaws WINMATAR. 731	Posted - 2013.12.09 02:42:00 - [19] - Quote Patrick57 wrote: I took down a Proto Sentinel that had 1100 Armor and 500 Shields with a Toxin AR (and once a Laser :D) so fast that he couldn't even turn around to see me. This happens so much it's actually almost gamebreaking for me. every time it happens to my 1.6k HP sentinel I am left without words to express my rage Plasma Cannon Advocate
Patrick57 Fatal Absolution 1947	Posted - 2013.12.09 02:44:00 - [20] - Quote XxGhazbaranxX wrote: Patrick57 wrote: I took down a Proto Sentinel that had 1100 Armor and 500 Shields with a Toxin AR (and once a Laser :D) so fast that he couldn't even turn around to see me. This happens so much it's actually almost gamebreaking for me. every time it happens to my 1.6k HP sentinel I am left without words to express my rage How would you suggest fixing Heavies (besides fixing the HMG)? I'd suggest making the hitbox smaller, but what do you think could make them better? When I'm depressed, I cut myself......A BIG SLICE OF CHOCOLATE CAKE!

XxGhazbaranxX The New Age Outlaws WINMATAR. 733	Posted - 2013.12.09 02:57:00 - [21] - Quote Patrick57 wrote: XxGhazbaranxX wrote: Patrick57 wrote: I took down a Proto Sentinel that had 1100 Armor and 500 Shields with a Toxin AR (and once a Laser :D) so fast that he couldn't even turn around to see me. This happens so much it's actually almost gamebreaking for me. every time it happens to my 1.6k HP sentinel I am left without words to express my rage How would you suggest fixing Heavies (besides fixing the HMG)? I'd suggest making the hitbox smaller, but what do you think could make them better? Well it really isn't about the heavy or the HMG. It's about the balance of the game. All weapons where balanced based on some notion of how much time it took to take another suit down. This notions was completely changed when Hit detection got an immense fix which is actually CCP's masterpiece to be honest. Very amazing work on that aspect. But this in turn overthrew the balance of the game completely. I believe that CCP must take some baby steps at this point to ensure quality of the product. The changes should be as follows: Eliminate the 10% bonus given to all weapons when uprising came out. This was to compensate for the extremely high amount of time it took to kill an opponent which was mostly hit detection's fault. Slightly augment the HP of suits by a 3% factor per month till a reasonable time to kill is achieved. (this would be global HP to all suits not just heavies) ** This is not an overly complicated thing to do and it also avoids over buffing anything in the game since small steps are done. Plasma Cannon Advocate
I-Shayz-I I-----I 1565	Posted - 2013.12.09 02:59:00 - [22] - Quote Ran into a guy with a proto SMG once. I shot first, halfway through his health he turns around and chews through my armor/shield like it was nothing. This was at like a 10 meter close range standoff. If the HMG is supposed to be devastating at close range, then it should at least be better than the SMG right? -_- Also, this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HC0Oll4-7jc&feature=youtube_gdata_player In the video, the guy has almost all of his health gone and I try to finish him off (at about 30 meters away, so still within optimal range)...but once he notices me he starts shooting and manages to strip 700ish health from me in about a second's time. I managed to kill him, but if he had just another second he would have killed me. Links: List of Most Important Threads I make logistics videos!
Patrick57 Fatal Absolution 1948	Posted - 2013.12.09 03:02:00 - [23] - Quote XxGhazbaranxX wrote: Patrick57 wrote: XxGhazbaranxX wrote: Patrick57 wrote: I took down a Proto Sentinel that had 1100 Armor and 500 Shields with a Toxin AR (and once a Laser :D) so fast that he couldn't even turn around to see me. This happens so much it's actually almost gamebreaking for me. every time it happens to my 1.6k HP sentinel I am left without words to express my rage How would you suggest fixing Heavies (besides fixing the HMG)? I'd suggest making the hitbox smaller, but what do you think could make them better? Well it really isn't about the heavy or the HMG. It's about the balance of the game. All weapons where balanced based on some notion of how much time it took to take another suit down. This notions was completely changed when Hit detection got an immense fix which is actually CCP's masterpiece to be honest. Very amazing work on that aspect. But this in turn overthrew the balance of the game completely. I believe that CCP must take some baby steps at this point to ensure quality of the product. The changes should be as follows: Eliminate the 10% bonus given to all weapons when uprising came out. This was to compensate for the extremely high amount of time it took to kill an opponent which was mostly hit detection's fault. Slightly augment the HP of suits by a 3% factor per month till a reasonable time to kill is achieved. (this would be global HP to all suits not just heavies) ** This is not an overly complicated thing to do and it also avoids over buffing anything in the game since small steps are done. +1 When I'm depressed, I cut myself......A BIG SLICE OF CHOCOLATE CAKE!
XxGhazbaranxX The New Age Outlaws WINMATAR. 733	Posted - 2013.12.09 03:11:00 - [24] - Quote I-Shayz-I wrote: Ran into a guy with a proto SMG once. I shot first, halfway through his health he turns around and chews through my armor/shield like it was nothing. This was at like a 10 meter close range standoff. If the HMG is supposed to be devastating at close range, then it should at least be better than the SMG right? -_- Also, this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HC0Oll4-7jc&feature=youtube_gdata_player In the video, the guy has almost all of his health gone and I try to finish him off (at about 30 meters away, so still within optimal range)...but once he notices me he starts shooting and manages to strip 700ish health from me in about a second's time. I managed to kill him, but if he had just another second he would have killed me. I hate that this is exactly how many of my engagements end. I kill 1 person but end with less than 100hp. It cost me twice the trouble to kill him than it did for him to almost kill me. HP wise anyways. Plasma Cannon Advocate
Tectonic Fusion 686	Posted - 2013.12.09 03:54:00 - [25] - Quote Yeah...I run a basic scout suit so I disagree... Solo Player Squad status: Locked


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