DUST Search - what the problem with heavy?

Midas Fool wrote:

ZeroGeass wrote:

Hmmm true. I think it because i havnt see it in your guy point of view so maybe that why i dont see anything probe lem. It likwhen people say the shotgun have issue. I didnt have an issue with it but when i watch other shotgunner video, well i can clearly see the problem, but it still doesnt seem a problem to me when i play. Yea maybe it just me that think about all of this. Still have been hearing some good opinion so far

The shotgun is actually ok at the moment. It most certainly isn't as strong as it was a few months ago, but it still does the job. It has hit detection problems every now and then but not gamebreakingly so (although there have been days....)

The biggest gripe I have with shotguns is that TTK+AA make my strafing and dodging around pretty useless. This combined with the shotgun (and flaylock...and sniper rifle)'s reduced power has significantly affected scouts.

There are a lot of "well it doesn't affect me" arguments made about some aspects of this game, but it pays to look at some things objectively. Not everyone has the same internet connectivity, skill at FPS, or luck as you. You don't even have to invest a lot into heavy or scout suits to see the inherent problems they have. One of them you might notice if you do is that the higher tier suits barely improve over STD suits. I urge you to only use heavy frames (maybe even only heavy weapons) for a while (a month or so) and let me know how long it takes before you wish you had all of the racial suits and weapons. Tell me how it feels to shoot at at strafing protosuit with a Duvolle. Play as a just light frame for a while, maybe with just a shotgun or sniper, and let me know if you make any money. Let me know how much you like Scrambler Rifles.

Actually don't do the second one...you might go broke. /Rant. I want to use my shotgun again.

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ZeroGeass M.T.A.C Assault Operations Command Lokun Listamenn 2	Posted - 2013.12.08 04:40:00 - [1] - Quote I just want to know what the problem with heavy and scout? I never really see an issue with them. I kill kill and die die so nothing seem wrong with heavy or light. There been a bunch of post and i quit reading it, it too much. I know heavies arent great on all map, mainly useful for tight spot like the city. Scout is good for anything, but somethime not ambush. Just my opinion There no such thing as no such things
Nocturnal Soul Immortal Retribution 1208	Posted - 2013.12.08 04:47:00 - [2] - Quote Lack of weapons is the heavies problem. Lack of weapons,base dampening, base precision, and that other electronic skill and that about it for the scout. Oh and lack of suits. "The trick to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources..." Albert Einstein
Ivy Zalinto Bobbit's Hangmen 112	Posted - 2013.12.08 04:47:00 - [3] - Quote ZeroGeass wrote: I just want to know what the problem with heavy and scout? I never really see an issue with them. I kill kill and die die so nothing seem wrong with heavy or light. There been a bunch of post and i quit reading it, it too much. I know heavies arent great on all map, mainly useful for tight spot like the city. Scout is good for anything, but somethime not ambush. Just my opinion Heavies are huge hitboxes with low speed and people think their shock troops. Their more suited for urban combat and enclosed spaces. But the main problem with them is the hit detection and their primary weapon (hmg supposedly but ar seems more prominent with them now) lacking range and damage. Fire rate is at least kinda there... Scouts have problems with engagement range. Unless they want to carry an ar, which if they do they are giving themselves away and not really fulfilling their role, the vast majority of weapons are outranged by a significant distance. For example my pistol may have a farther optimum range than 20 meters but most weapons out their engage from 5 or 6 times the distance. We try and maneuver for cover but the rate of fire and range will shred us before we can step one foot back behind the box. We have to be very fast in thinking and in reaction, as well as reading the battlefield. I only speak more on scout because I play one and know more about the issues. This is the primary issue to me. Range and hit detection. Dedicated scout. Player bodyguard Pistol supremacy.
THUNDERGROOVE ZionTCD Public Disorder. 369	Posted - 2013.12.08 05:05:00 - [4] - Quote Only issue with the heavy is the HMG. ZionTCD Director & Ammar Loyalist Amarr Sentinel \| Amarr Logi \| *Losematar* Scout What is a signature?
Virtual Riot The Vanguardians INTERGALACTIC WARPIGS 99	Posted - 2013.12.08 05:09:00 - [5] - Quote Heavies can actually get dropped faster than a medium suit because of their large hitbox so while a person in a heavy suit is still useful because every body on the field is, but youd be more useful in a medium suit
ZeroGeass M.T.A.C Assault Operations Command Lokun Listamenn 2	Posted - 2013.12.08 05:55:00 - [6] - Quote Hmmm i never really have a problem with the HMG, i even think sometime it overpower just sometime and im a heavy too. Hmm the only problem with the machince gun and a heavy is when the enemy is right next to you moving,jumping around. It take awhile to hit but if u hit them it cause way more damage because they right next to you. I dnt see any problem with hit dection or damage. Aim assist off or on, is still the same to me cuz of my reflex There no such thing as no such things
Disturbingly Bored The Strontium Asylum 1223	Posted - 2013.12.08 06:00:00 - [7] - Quote Content. The suit is fine, the Forge Gun is fine, the HMG is apparently getting a "cone fix" (supposedly according to Wolfman on IRC). The problem with heavy is that it's had nothing new whasoever since closed beta. And no: Commando really, really doesn't count. ¶Gêƒ__ Gò« Gû¿GûêGûêGûêGòáGëíGëíGëíGû¬ « GÇó GÇó GÇó GÇó GÇó GÇó GÇó GåÆFAT GATGåÉ pÇûGûôGûôGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæpÇùForum Warrior LV 1 (NEXT: 200/1000XP) ¯Gò¦pÇôpÇù
Vicious Minotaur Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 408	Posted - 2013.12.08 06:03:00 - [8] - Quote Heavy, the suit, has one problem: the large hitbox, perhaps being too large. Heavy, the class, has more problems, such as lack of weapons, the fact that half of their current weapons are being outclassed by small little ARs and SCRs, as well as sidearms like the SMG. They also lack suits. One racial suit since its inception. Scouts suffer from an "everything we can do, logis and assaults can do better"- type problem. Also, they are made almost irrelevant with scanners. Even when they do prevent a scan, they don't. Plus, they have fewer slots with fewer CPU and PG per slot to work with than all other suits.
ZeroGeass M.T.A.C Assault Operations Command Lokun Listamenn 2	Posted - 2013.12.08 06:52:00 - [9] - Quote Well i think scout are the best for shotgunning and swarming which work well for me. Heavy are well heavy so they are big and slow. Or maybe i just dont get the problem, i seem to be doing fine with both suit. There no such thing as no such things
THUNDERGROOVE ZionTCD Public Disorder. 370	Posted - 2013.12.08 07:10:00 - [10] - Quote ZeroGeass wrote: Well i think scout are the best for shotgunning and swarming which work well for me. Heavy are well heavy so they are big and slow. Or maybe i just dont get the problem, i seem to be doing fine with both suit. I don't think people will understand unless they play Dust fairly competitively. After I realized the heavy wasn't very viable for PC I picked up a medium frame and AR and put up 4 times the WP and double the kills with half the deaths in PC. ZionTCD Director & Ammar Loyalist Amarr Sentinel \| Amarr Logi \| *Losematar* Scout What is a signature?

Mossellia Delt Militaires Sans Jeux 725	Posted - 2013.12.08 07:26:00 - [11] - Quote ZeroGeass wrote: Well i think scout are the best for shotgunning and swarming which work well for me. Heavy are well heavy so they are big and slow. Or maybe i just dont get the problem, i seem to be doing fine with both suit. Heres another problem with the scout. They at prototype level, maxed out, cost around 150 - 180k isk a suit, yet die from AR fire 60 meters away in less then a second (Minmatar) unless your armour tanked in all your lows (Gallenete) Parody Dust 514 Lyrics Vote for Delt
ZeroGeass M.T.A.C Assault Operations Command Lokun Listamenn 2	Posted - 2013.12.08 07:39:00 - [12] - Quote Well i notice some people who play scout treat it is a assualt, in other word fight like an assualt. U suppose to kill or hit them by surprise and never stop moving. One reason why heavy get kill easy is being too cocky or still not use to using the HMG. I play and have use everything so i have a basic idea of stuff. Still i think it mainly the person skill, and that about it. True suit and module is important but without the skill u cnt do much. It like proto noob vs veteran who is using basic stuff with proto module or something. No offensive to any noob, u get better as u experience the battle . Scout are weak so they get kill easily but are faster. Heavy is heavy. Med is med. Now logi is different. Some use it as assualt and some use it as logi. To use it as assualt u would use all the module and not the equipment, and i find that pretty smart actually. Im sure there those who hate it. Why? Because they will alway be people hating on everything. There no such thing as no such things
Mossellia Delt Militaires Sans Jeux 726	Posted - 2013.12.08 07:43:00 - [13] - Quote ZeroGeass wrote: Well i notice some people who play scout treat it is a assualt, in other word fight like an assualt. U suppose to kill or hit them by surprise and never stop moving. One reason why heavy get kill easy is being too cocky or still not use to using the HMG. I play and have use everything so i have a basic idea of stuff. Still i think it mainly the person skill, and that about it. True suit and module is important but without the skill u cnt do much. It like proto noob vs veteran who is using basic stuff with proto module or something. No offensive to any noob, u get better as u experience the battle . Scout are weak so they get kill easily but are faster. Heavy is heavy. Med is med. Now logi is different. Some use it as assualt and some use it as logi. To use it as assualt u would use all the module and not the equipment, and i find that pretty smart actually. Im sure there those who hat it. You're not a dedicated scout, dont tell other scouts how to play their role. Scouts in my opinion and many others are skirmishers, they arnt assaults. They are hit and run. The problem currently is the high alpha damage weapons no longer work because of brick tanking. Also, Logi's and assault can run faster then scouts with the extra fitting they can aquire, using better weapons and having higher HP Parody Dust 514 Lyrics Vote for Delt
Cosgar ParagonX 8482	Posted - 2013.12.08 07:47:00 - [14] - Quote I want to say it's the HMG, but lack of content may be the biggest problem. All of the balancing ideas for the HMG are coming from trying to balance a Minmatar weapon with an Amarr suit. But what if the HMG range nerf (still over nerfed in my opinion) was to balance it for a much faster Minmatar heavy that can close the distance easier? We all know the Amarr's anti-infantry weapon is going to have a longer range but let's say when the HMG was nerfed the other heavies, in this case the Minmatar was meant to come out in an earlier patch. I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
ZeroGeass M.T.A.C Assault Operations Command Lokun Listamenn 2	Posted - 2013.12.08 07:53:00 - [15] - Quote You're not a dedicated scout, dont tell other scouts how to play their role. Scouts in my opinion and many others are skirmishers, they arnt assaults. They are hit and run. The problem currently is the high alpha damage weapons no longer work because of brick tanking. Also, Logi's and assault can run faster then scouts with the extra fitting they can aquire, using better weapons and having higher HP[/quote] This is just my opinion tat all.No need to listen to me if dnt agree with me. People use scout differently- hacking, sniping, scanning, and alot more. All im saying, think like a scout. There no such thing as no such things
Sinboto Simmons SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 2895	Posted - 2013.12.08 07:56:00 - [16] - Quote Two main problems I see: 1: Their anti personnel weapon is broken. and 2: The current rifles dish out to much damage too quickly, making their tank useless. Sinboto - The True Blood Minja Forum Warrior level 2 STB-Infantry (Demolition)
Mossellia Delt Militaires Sans Jeux 726	Posted - 2013.12.08 08:07:00 - [17] - Quote ZeroGeass wrote: You're not a dedicated scout, dont tell other scouts how to play their role. Scouts in my opinion and many others are skirmishers, they arnt assaults. They are hit and run. The problem currently is the high alpha damage weapons no longer work because of brick tanking. Also, Logi's and assault can run faster then scouts with the extra fitting they can aquire, using better weapons and having higher HP This is just my opinion tat all.No need to listen to me if dnt agree with me. People use scout differently- hacking, sniping, scanning, and alot more. All im saying, think like a scout.[/quote] You're implying I dont think like one. Someone whos been playing the scout in Dust 514 since first week of Chromo. Someone whos been playing the scout in GORE:US since about 3 months after it released Someone whos played the scout like role in every game that actually has different roles (sans FT2 since I think the games awful) Parody Dust 514 Lyrics Vote for Delt
THUNDERGROOVE ZionTCD Public Disorder. 371	Posted - 2013.12.08 08:16:00 - [18] - Quote Cosgar wrote: I want to say it's the HMG, but lack of content may be the biggest problem. Yes and no. The HMG is undeniably bad at even what it's suposed to be used for. ZionTCD Director & Ammar Loyalist Amarr Sentinel \| Amarr Logi \| *Losematar* Scout What is a signature?
ZeroGeass M.T.A.C Assault Operations Command Lokun Listamenn 2	Posted - 2013.12.08 08:17:00 - [19] - Quote Mossellia Delt wrote: ZeroGeass wrote: You're not a dedicated scout, dont tell other scouts how to play their role. Scouts in my opinion and many others are skirmishers, they arnt assaults. They are hit and run. The problem currently is the high alpha damage weapons no longer work because of brick tanking. Also, Logi's and assault can run faster then scouts with the extra fitting they can aquire, using better weapons and having higher HP This is just my opinion tat all.No need to listen to me if dnt agree with me. People use scout differently- hacking, sniping, scanning, and alot more. All im saying, think like a scout. You're implying I dont think like one. Someone whos been playing the scout in Dust 514 since first week of Chromo. Someone whos been playing the scout in GORE:US since about 3 months after it released Someone whos played the scout like role in every game that actually has different roles (sans FT2 since I think the games awful)[/quote] -_- no im not saying u dont think like one. If it sound like im saying that then im apologize, my fault for grammer. English isnt my 1st language so im sorry if i say something wrong. Everyone is different. Does that sound better? There no such thing as no such things
ZeroGeass M.T.A.C Assault Operations Command Lokun Listamenn 2	Posted - 2013.12.08 08:19:00 - [20] - Quote Well i find the HMG awsome wirh no issue except the range. But if they increase the range it be too uh......a bit powerful- my opinion There no such thing as no such things

Midas Fool Black Phoenix Mercenaries 243	Posted - 2013.12.08 08:48:00 - [21] - Quote ZeroGeass wrote: Well i find the HMG awsome wirh no issue except the range. But if they increase the range it be too uh......a bit powerful- my opinion The problem with the HMG lies in the "damage cone" it is supposed to have actually firing with extreme laser-accuracy. Try using a laser rifle in CQC and you'll understand. Actually, go use an HMG in CQC against pretty much anything and you'll find the fight quite difficult in an area it should dominate no question. I often find the SMG or a ASCR to be a more usable weapon. If you don't see that there is something wrong with scouts/light frames, you clearly haven't played scouts enough, or at least not at a level where the problems become evident. The main issue is that TTK is absurdly low at the moment. The other issue is that Scanners reading "SOME MARGIN OF ERROR" breaks the whole point of dampening. My roommate is a Proto GalScout with Profile Dampening V and three dampeners in his lows, and he more often than not would rather put his sniper rifle on an Assault suit. Something is wrong with that picture. As reiterated a thousand times, the only real problem with Heavies is lack of racial Suits and Weapons. For best results press R1 repeatedly. Consult your doctor if your erection persists for more than four hours.
ZeroGeass M.T.A.C Assault Operations Command Lokun Listamenn 2	Posted - 2013.12.08 16:49:00 - [22] - Quote Midas Fool wrote: ZeroGeass wrote: Well i find the HMG awsome wirh no issue except the range. But if they increase the range it be too uh......a bit powerful- my opinion The problem with the HMG lies in the "damage cone" it is supposed to have actually firing with extreme laser-accuracy. Try using a laser rifle in CQC and you'll understand. Actually, go use an HMG in CQC against pretty much anything and you'll find the fight quite difficult in an area it should dominate no question. I often find the SMG or a ASCR to be a more usable weapon. If you don't see that there is something wrong with scouts/light frames, you clearly haven't played scouts enough, or at least not at a level where the problems become evident. The main issue is that TTK is absurdly low at the moment. The other issue is that Scanners reading "SOME MARGIN OF ERROR" breaks the whole point of dampening. My roommate is a Proto GalScout with Profile Dampening V and three dampeners in his lows, and he more often than not would rather put his sniper rifle on an Assault suit. Something is wrong with that picture. As reiterated a thousand times, the only real problem with Heavies is lack of racial Suits and Weapons. Hmmm true. I think it because i havnt see it in your guy point of view so maybe that why i dont see anything probe lem. It likwhen people say the shotgun have issue. I didnt have an issue with it but when i watch other shotgunner video, well i can clearly see the problem, but it still doesnt seem a problem to me when i play. Yea maybe it just me that think about all of this. Still have been hearing some good opinion so far There no such thing as no such things
Painekiller0112 Omega Elite Mercs INC. 3	Posted - 2013.12.08 23:14:00 - [23] - Quote The problem with heavies started when CCP decided to get rid of Sharpshooter skill for heavies This life is full of random death and heaps of grief and shame So few are soothed by accident, you need someone to blame
ZeroGeass M.T.A.C Assault Operations Command Lokun Listamenn 2	Posted - 2013.12.09 00:16:00 - [24] - Quote Painekiller0112 wrote: The problem with heavies started when CCP decided to get rid of Sharpshooter skill for heavies Huh hmmm with sharp shooter it be a bit too powerful in my opinion that is but it be good if it is added again or something for heavy There no such thing as no such things
Midas Fool Black Phoenix Mercenaries 244	Posted - 2013.12.09 12:03:00 - [25] - Quote ZeroGeass wrote: Hmmm true. I think it because i havnt see it in your guy point of view so maybe that why i dont see anything probe lem. It likwhen people say the shotgun have issue. I didnt have an issue with it but when i watch other shotgunner video, well i can clearly see the problem, but it still doesnt seem a problem to me when i play. Yea maybe it just me that think about all of this. Still have been hearing some good opinion so far The shotgun is actually ok at the moment. It most certainly isn't as strong as it was a few months ago, but it still does the job. It has hit detection problems every now and then but not gamebreakingly so (although there have been days....) The biggest gripe I have with shotguns is that TTK+AA make my strafing and dodging around pretty useless. This combined with the shotgun (and flaylock...and sniper rifle)'s reduced power has significantly affected scouts. There are a lot of "well it doesn't affect me" arguments made about some aspects of this game, but it pays to look at some things objectively. Not everyone has the same internet connectivity, skill at FPS, or luck as you. You don't even have to invest a lot into heavy or scout suits to see the inherent problems they have. One of them you might notice if you do is that the higher tier suits barely improve over STD suits. I urge you to only use heavy frames (maybe even only heavy weapons) for a while (a month or so) and let me know how long it takes before you wish you had all of the racial suits and weapons. Tell me how it feels to shoot at at strafing protosuit with a Duvolle. Play as a just light frame for a while, maybe with just a shotgun or sniper, and let me know if you make any money. Let me know how much you like Scrambler Rifles. Actually don't do the second one...you might go broke. /Rant. I want to use my shotgun again. For best results press R1 repeatedly. Consult your doctor if your erection persists for more than four hours.
KGB Sleep Ikomari-Onu Enforcement Caldari State 477	Posted - 2013.12.09 12:14:00 - [26] - Quote They have two spines and that's redic. "Because beer, that's why."
Mregomies The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 130	Posted - 2013.12.09 12:20:00 - [27] - Quote I love heavys! I stay behind them and give goldenshower to them. I supply their HMG and they kill lots of reds without fear of dying. end of the battle I can count >10k hp healing in my battle stats. every heavy need a good logi. Suomi, Finland, PERKELE!
Korvin Lomont United Pwnage Service RISE of LEGION 308	Posted - 2013.12.09 12:31:00 - [28] - Quote ZeroGeass wrote: I just want to know what the problem with heavy and scout? I never really see an issue with them. I kill kill and die die so nothing seem wrong with heavy or light. There been a bunch of post and i quit reading it, it too much. I know heavies arent great on all map, mainly useful for tight spot like the city. Scout is good for anything, but somethime not ambush. Just my opinion Scouts were hitted quite hard with the nerf bat. They lost something in every aspect without reason or explanantion (HP,CPU/PG,Scanradius and SLOTS: they lost the most slots out off all suits). And if that was not enough through the HD improvements paired with AA Speed tanking has become obsolete. All that while the introduction of active scanners and the removal of team vision elimated the last small niche a scout could fill... Now all that they have is a gimped suit that has no role on the battlefield. Their bonusses are hardly usefull and the weapons they once used, work better on medium suits. In general a medium suit can outclass a scout in nearly all aspects.
Rynoceros Rise Of Old Dudes 1522	Posted - 2013.12.09 13:02:00 - [29] - Quote Once the "cone" gets fixed you'll see my name just left of (Freedom Assault Heavy Machine Gun) on a regular basis. Til then, Fatty with AR/ScR Cheeseburgers.
ZeroGeass M.T.A.C Assault Operations Command Lokun Listamenn 2	Posted - 2013.12.09 16:24:00 - [30] - Quote Midas Fool wrote: ZeroGeass wrote: Hmmm true. I think it because i havnt see it in your guy point of view so maybe that why i dont see anything probe lem. It likwhen people say the shotgun have issue. I didnt have an issue with it but when i watch other shotgunner video, well i can clearly see the problem, but it still doesnt seem a problem to me when i play. Yea maybe it just me that think about all of this. Still have been hearing some good opinion so far The shotgun is actually ok at the moment. It most certainly isn't as strong as it was a few months ago, but it still does the job. It has hit detection problems every now and then but not gamebreakingly so (although there have been days....) The biggest gripe I have with shotguns is that TTK+AA make my strafing and dodging around pretty useless. This combined with the shotgun (and flaylock...and sniper rifle)'s reduced power has significantly affected scouts. There are a lot of "well it doesn't affect me" arguments made about some aspects of this game, but it pays to look at some things objectively. Not everyone has the same internet connectivity, skill at FPS, or luck as you. You don't even have to invest a lot into heavy or scout suits to see the inherent problems they have. One of them you might notice if you do is that the higher tier suits barely improve over STD suits. I urge you to only use heavy frames (maybe even only heavy weapons) for a while (a month or so) and let me know how long it takes before you wish you had all of the racial suits and weapons. Tell me how it feels to shoot at at strafing protosuit with a Duvolle. Play as a just light frame for a while, maybe with just a shotgun or sniper, and let me know if you make any money. Let me know how much you like Scrambler Rifles. Actually don't do the second one...you might go broke. /Rant. I want to use my shotgun again. I actually mainly use heavy and light dropsuit. I get the scrambler rifle kill scout like nothing depending on skill. But it got the overheat too but those who been using it may already got used to it. Heavy is the best in tight spot(for me that is). Shotgunning is awsome too, miltia shotgun can kill proto, anything can kill proto but it take awhile. But when u go against veteran player, well let say fo your best. Hmmm maybe we should have a light and heavy channel or something There no such thing as no such things



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